Afflecks Palace

[Sir Miles Platting]

I'm not missing the point nicky, just playing devil's advocate is all.

If Afflecks can be stay solvent and continue to be a drawing-card for the district then good luck to it.

However, if it just turns out to be a romantic remnant of a misspent youth, it will die on the vine if it's not patronised.

Nostalgia won't pay the rent in an increasingly expensive city centre.

[Architecty]

It’s a shame if it goes, retail mix and all that, but personally it has never offered much that appealed to me. It clearly would be a loss in the grand scheme of things, but business models based on being in a run down part of town with cheap rent are not going to be sustained when the market and area picks up, and that’s the same anywhere.

Other than reminiscing, who on here has actually bought anything from there in the recent past, even recent years, and then was it a purchase of more than an odd couple of quid?

[macc]

Only fancy dress stuff.

Camden Market is similar and is the fourth most visited attraction in London. I've never bought anything from there but the atmosphere is great.

Afflecks and the like do more than pose a poor business model. The sheer existance of the place helps define the bohemian character of the northern quarter, which makes people want to live there, which make the apartments desireable and more expensive.

Houses prices in London are particularly expensive around camden town, per square ft.

If Bruntwood turned Afflecks into flats (which they won't) they would devalue them before they even build them by replacing part of what make the area attractive.

You don't have to visit afflecks feel the knockon effects of its existance.

And as for profitable business models proving the worth of a building's use, how many museums make a profit? Museums are subsidised. I bet as many people walk through Afflecks as through Urbis.

If it geniunley isn't financially viable get the council to subsidise the rents. They'll pay for youth centres, for initaltives to help sole traders start a business, to keep nippers hanging aroun in parks, for tourist attractions. Afflecks is all of this and more.

I'm pretty conifident its not going anywhere. Any temporary closure would be down to the Management company being pricks.

[flange]

Afflecks traders shut up

STALLHOLDERS at Afflecks Palace have shut up shop after losing hope of saving their businesses.

An emergency meeting has been called at Manchester Town Hall this week in a bid to resolve the row over a new tenancy agreement at the Northern Quarter shopping arcade.

However, some traders have decided to walk before they are pushed.

Businesses at the 25-year-old centre on the junction of Tib Street and Church Street face their 'judgement day' this weekend as they are due to learn whether bosses will close it down.
They received a hand-delivered letter from the centre's management earlier this month stating they would be given one-week's notice to pack-up if landlords Bruntwood had not formally responded to a tenancy request before Saturday.

Afflecks' future has hung in the balance for the past 12 months and although Bruntwood claim a new lease has been offered, negotiations have stalled.

Leoncia Murphy (pictured), 25, is planning to move her clothing stall Sasa Love to premises in Huddersfield as she says nowhere in the city centre can compete with Afflecks' cheap rent.

Resigned

She said: "A lot of stallholders have resigned themselves to closing. I've handed in my notice under the agreement that I can retract it if it stays open."

Stall assistant Kiye Simister, 18, said: "The uncertainty has ruined the lives of a lot of people whose jobs are at risk and now they are walking before they're pushed. One week's notice is not enough for people to find new incomes.

She said six or seven stallholders had walked over the past month and many more had handed in their notice over the past few days.

Angie Hulme, who runs the Me&Yu clothing stall, said the situation has reached 'stalemate'. She said: "People have made their minds up that it's going to be bad news but I can't believe the powers that be in Manchester would let this institution close - it's vital to Northern Quarter trade."

Coun Pat Karney has called all key Afflecks Palace players to a town hall meeting on Thursday to try to hammer out a resolution. He said: "The public are fed up of the confusion surrounding the future of Afflecks Palace."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....aders_shut_up_

[heatonparkincakes]

Thinking about this this morning and I had a chat with some of my colleagues.

In hindsight, the most overwhelming aspect is why have Bruntwood got this property? Doesnt make much sense, unless there is a much bigger plan to re-develop the rotten state between the Arndale and Oldham St.

But in light on the credit crunch and that it would mean demolition of the corner 60's grim grey monster off High St and the incredibly nasty NCP car park on Church St. A big expensive, but necessary project.

That would be welcomed. In my opinion, this area has some of most embarressing buildings for such a central spot. Almost 70's Birmingham in its ugliness.

However as much as renovation of this area would be welcomed, it is tricky in that any such new development would have an effect on the indy bo ho feel of the NQ and Afflecks.

The trick is to develop it and be able to retain the local character. And it is a dilemma. I always think that Afflecks is akin to the pre bomb Exchange with ist raggle taggle of indy alt shops. When the Exchange was re-developed all that was lost. And it is arguable to say whether the Triangle has been as successfull as should be.

The other feelings were that isnt this just landlord and developer playing poker in publci, that maybe the traders should take the matter into their onw hands and move to their own place within the NQ ("The New Afflecks Collective" came to mind.) and what would be cool for this area. It was mentioned that a modern performance arts centre would fit nicely in this area. Until it was raised that the Band on the Wall will be this.

[The Longford]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

In hindsight, the most overwhelming aspect is why have Bruntwood got this property? Doesnt make much sense, unless there is a much bigger plan to re-develop the rotten state between the Arndale and Oldham St.

Bruntwood havent always been meglomaniac, Poland-invading, property behemoths.
Back when they were a teeny weeny property owner, making its way in the big wide world they bought Afflecks - in fact i think it was one of their first properties.

[macc]

I've highlighted Bruntwood's input in blue and the Afflecks Management Company in red.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...._snubs_meeting

Afflecks manager 'snubs' meeting
Deborah Linton
16/ 1/2008

THE founder of Afflecks Palace has snubbed a crunch meeting called to determine its future.

Elaine Walsh, who opened the shopping centre 25 years ago and heads its management team, has turned down an invitation to attend the emergency talks tomorrow , according to organisers.

Manchester's city centre spokesman, Coun Pat Karney, invited all parties involved in the dispute to the Town Hall in the hope of hammering out an agreement which will keep Afflecks open following months of uncertainty.

But the attempt to reach a breakthrough appears doomed to fail unless Ms Walsh, who is the leaseholder, agrees to attend.

Traders have been told by the Afflecks management team that they have received "no formal response" to a tenancy request served on landlords Bruntwood last October and that if nothing is heard by this Saturday then the indoor market will close.

However, Bruntwood insists that the offer of a new lease is on the table and that negotiations have stalled.

Bruntwood has confirmed it will send a representative to tomorrow's meeting and said the firm is eager to keep the centre going. A number of traders also plan to attend.

Bruntwood last week said they had offered new lease terms and had no plans to redevelop the centre or convert it into apartments.
Coun Karney said: "I'm very disappointed that Elaine Walsh is not coming. The public want to get the full picture - they're completely confused as are traders.

New management

"If she doesn't turn up to the meeting I will go down there myself and the council will organise a general meeting, with all traders, to look at new management arrangements. We do not want to see Afflecks close."

The M.E.N has learnt that Bruntwood has proposed rent increases for the building in order to bring it into line with health and safety standards but the firm insists it has no plans to price out traders.
Bruntwood has a lease agreement with the centre's management team which in turn establishes its own rent charges with stall-holders.

The threat to Afflecks has prompted thousands of people to leave comments on the petitionspot.com website and add their names to `Save Afflecks' support pages on social networking site Facebook, stressing the importance of the emporium.

Leoncia Murphy, who owns clothing stall Sasa Loves, said: "I think traders would welcome anything to keep the building open. I can only speak for myself but anything positive for Afflecks is good and if there's someone who can keep it open that's great."

The M.E.N reported yesterday that some traders had already left the centre amid the uncertainty and others had handed in their notice.

Vanessa Cawley, who has run her stall American Grafitti since the centre opened said: "People are handing in their notice but we are still open and if these are our last couple of weeks we need to make them a success."

When the M.E.N. tried to contact Elaine Walsh and invite her to explain her position she refused to take calls and slammed a door in a reporter's face.

John Chapman, a chartered surveyor appointed to represent the Afflecks Palace management in the negotiations with Bruntwood, said: "I have no instructions to comment on this matter and my client does not wish a public debate in the media about these discussions.

"I am not entirely sure what meeting you are referring to as all discussions are privileged."

[macc]

How's my psychadelic colouring going down? way out, man!

This comment is unblievable:

John Chapman a chartered surveyor appointed to represent the Afflecks Palace management in the negotiations with Bruntwood, said:I have no instructions to comment on this matter and my client does not wish a public debate in the media about these discussions.

Doesn't want a public debate about it??? why splash scare stories all over the papers then, you fucking idiot. And then when Bruntwood try to sit down with you to give you a new lease you refuse and continue to complain and drive out your traders saying "Bruntwood won't give us a new lease".

[thriller killer]

Just got this from someone who has a stall in afflecks (me and you)....

If you wanna keep it... suggest you get down.

We're holding a "Support Afflecks" event this weekend!

Come down on SATURDAY at 12.00 midday

Bring a Placard, speak to the press and SIGN OUR PETITION

We want loads of names on the list so that everyone negotiating the lease see how many people support Afflecks and want to

KEEP AFFLECKS OPEN

[flange]

Afflecks talks to continue

AFFLECKS Palace traders have been granted a reprieve as talks over its future are set to continue into next week.

Stall holders at the emporium, at the heart of the city's Northern Quarter, were expecting to be served with one-week's notice to leave on Saturday after negotiations between management and landlords Bruntwood looked likely to stall.

But the two parties locked heads in crunch town hall talks this morning - and have agreed to meet again in a week's time. Around 20 traders turned out to hear the outcome of the meeting.

The centre's founder and leaseholder Elaine Walsh, who heads up the management team, declined to attend but representatives Graham Taylor and Mike Walker will relay discussions to her and have been asked to urge her not to serve any notice on traders in the meantime.

Afflecks businesses have been trading under a cloud of uncertainty for 12 months and it had been thought that they would have to vacate the iconic centre by January 26, allowing Mrs Walsh to hand back the building to Bruntwood in April.

Her 25-year lease expired in June and she has been operating on a rolling contract since.

Management say that they have been negotiating with Bruntwood since November 2006 and had served a legal notice for a new lease but had received no reply.

But Bruntwood say they have not objected to the notice which is reply enough under property laws, according to city centre councillor Pat Karney who presided over this morning's meeting.

It was revealed by Mr Taylor that Bruntwood are proposing increases in rent and service charges and have asked management to spend £500,000 bringing the run-down building up to standard.

Viable

He said Mrs Walsh wanted to keep the centre open but added: "We have to consider whether it's commercially viable and we can afford to stay open."

"Afflecks Palace is her baby, her creation, it's part of her," he said. Mr Taylor added: "I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic - I'm just the messenger. I have to pass on information to Elaine and allow her to make her own decision." Mrs Walsh has declined to speak directly to the media.

Coun Karney initially met only with Bruntwood representatives this morning, believing that no-one from the management team was planning to attend. When the two gentlemen turned-up on behalf of Mrs Walsh, Bruntwood's team was called back to the town hall where the parties spoke in private for around an hour.

Coun Karney said that the talks signified "a huge step forward" and added: "For a whole variety of reasons the council wants Afflecks to continue. We want the traders to continue in there, we want the value that brings to Manchester - it's a great advert for the city and brings people to Manchester."

Traders asked Coun Karney if Afflecks' market licence, which was increased from £27,000 to £30,000 three years ago, could be revoked to provide some financial relief and he assured them he would investigate the matter. When asked if the council could step in and buy the centre, he said it was not within the budget to buy buildings and added: "It would cost us a fortune, we couldn't do that for any business in Manchester. You would kick off if I spent £20 or £30 million of your council tax buying that building."

Trader Chris Hall said: "It's not just about money. The ideas and the creativity going on in there are invaluable."

Simon Scott, head of marketing at Bruntwood, said: "We had a meeting this morning and look forward to exploring solutions next week."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....ks_to_continue

[Peeks]

Why can't the traders themselves form a co-operative and contract directly with Bruntwood to hold the lease?

[The Longford]

Originally Posted by Peeks

Why can't the traders themselves form a co-operative and contract directly with Bruntwood to hold the lease?

Because most of the traders are petty fools who dont get on with each other and wouldnt share a kitkat - never mind a lease.

If they had any sense (which they havent) they should get together and negotiate a new lease or find alternative accommodation together.

Too many 'personalities' and rivalries in there to show a united front.

[b4mmy]

from Manchester Confidential...

Afflecks on and on and on

More doubt and uncertainty in the Afflecks saga and what might happen if the store closes

So the saga rumbles on and the uncertainty over Afflecks remains.

A meeting in Manchester Town Hall on Thursday morning resulted in a delay on any axe falling on the 26 year old shopping bazaar. Twenty or so stall holders, plus owners of the building, Bruntwood, and representatives of the leaseholders, Afflecks management company, attended the meeting. This ended with a decision to hold more talks next week.

Elaine Walsh should make it crystal clear whether she wants to carry on with Afflecks or pull out and let the place – and the 300 jobs associated with it – go.

So not much happened. The future of the centre is still in doubt after negotiations for a new lease stalled in mid-2007. The various parties don’t seem, in any material way closer to an agreement on the future of the shopping centre. So whilst it might be good to talk it would be better if a decision were made.



In particular it would help if the lease-holder and Afflecks’ founder, Elaine Walsh, started telling people exactly what she intends rather than increasing doubt by using go-betweens in the form of representatives. She should make it crystal clear whether she wants to carry on with Afflecks or pull out and let the place – and the 300 jobs associated with it – go.

Her representative, Graham Taylor, claimed that Bruntwood want to increase the rent and service charges and require the management to spend as much as half a million on renovations. If that’s the case and if that’s not going to happen the traders need to be put out of their misery sooner not later.

The doubt does Ms Walsh no favours. She's worked hard over the last quarter of a century to provide the city with a wonderful bit of retail individuality but we need to hear from her. Theories are growing about her motives. Especially as Bruntwood seem to be clear in their position.

Amidst all this maybe it’s time to consider life in Manchester without Afflecks. If you read the comments on this site then to some people a Manchester devoid of Afflecks, would be Dullsville. Almost pointless.

That’s simply not the case. Of course, teenagers would be bereft and inconsolable, and many, many other people would miss the place, but the fact is that Manchester is much bigger than one shopping centre. Whilst closure would be deeply regrettable, and a tragedy for the traders, the city would still remain the premier shopping destination in the North.

Simon Buckley is the owner of Rags to Bitches, the vintage fashion boutique on Tib Street up the road from Afflecks. “If it closes then it will be a terrible blow for the area but it needn’t spell the end of everything round here,” he told Confidential. “And if we can retain the essence of what Afflecks represents and spread some of the traders into other shops such as the empty premises along Oak Street and Copperas Street then that will reinforce the independent spirit of the Northern Quarter. It’s the traders you feel for here. But if the worst happens and Afflecks Palace closes then that could create a whole fresh dynamic. We are an entrepreneurial city after all.”

The Northern Quarter after years of being occasionally excellent needs to be full-time good. It needs three things to realise this: landlords who are sympathetic; a Council which provides the basics such as adequate street-lighting; and a police force which makes it presence felt – a few more bobbies on the beat would be nice. The death of Afflecks may bring these issues into sharper focus. And if, as Buckley says, we can spread a good number of the traders from Afflecks around the Northern Quarter then what seems to be the sad but inevitable climax to this saga need not be so final.

[heatonparkincakes]

Its a generational thing. Once I realised that Afflecks selection of clothes made me look like a "William Hague at a open air street festival," gone was the days when I could hang like a dandy within its walls.

But I know that for a large % of under 30 year olds, Afflecks is a central plank of their existance.

It looks like a sorry mess of a management and Bruntwood enmeshed emotionally with this building and divided and uncertain about how to take it forward.

Maybe the NQ will and should take a different route as a more sophisticated version of Deansgate with multiple bars and eateries, rather being a little bohemia. Maybe that should be located down nesr the universities or further out in Strangeways. Who knows!?!?!?

[flange]

THE AFFLECKS PALACE saga continues after it was announced this morning that Bruntwood and the Afflecks Management Company need a further 24 hours to discuss the future. The two parties were due to hold a meeting today at the town hall but this has now been postponed whilst negotiations are still underway. Councillor Pat Karney said: “We hope to be able to issue an update tomorrow.”

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co...IlF6IHqjNwB6IA

[flange]

Afflecks talks on hold

TOWN hall-mediated talks over the future of Afflecks Palace have been postponed for 24 hours - with the centre's landlords and managers holding further discussions in private.

Bosses from the shopping emporium were due to meet landlords Bruntwood in public yesterday in a bid to thrash out a deal to save it from closure.

The future of the centre - and its 100 stalls - has been hanging in the balance since the original lease ran out in June.

Traders fear a huge hike in rents that could accompany a new agreement would put them out of business. But Bruntwood wants the dilapidated building to be refurbished and insists that the costs of any future improvements should be covered by the lease.

Negotiations have broken down several times and Afflecks founder and manager Elaine Walsh warned traders they could be given notice to quit by the end of this month.

Uncertainty

A number of stallholders have packed up and left the iconic centre over recent weeks due to the uncertainty.

Those who remain were given a reprieve following crunch town hall talks last week, at which management agreed to meet Bruntwood again.

After private talks between the two parties, yesterday's planned meeting was postponed and was due to take place today.

A spokesman for Bruntwood said: "We are hopeful that we'll find a solution that will safeguard the future of the Afflecks Palace business - however, given the advanced and sensitive nature of our discussions we have agreed not to discuss it."

City centre spokesman Coun Pat Karney said he believed discussions were now `moving in a positive direction'.

Officers from the council's estates department are in touch with both sides.

"I'm pleased to hear discussions are positive and I'm keeping in touch with both parties to stay appraised with developments," he said. "We hope to be able to issue an update today."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....talks_on_hold_

[markydeedrop]

[The Longford]

Breaking news

Unconfirmed report

Stallholders have been told today that the lease on Afflecks has been extended for another 5 years.

No pics

[macc]

never doubted it though

[Le Curé]

See latest on MEN:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....s_palace_saved