The super luxury property

SmallInvestor · February 15th, 2007, 04:56 AM

As we enter the era where we see the first bud of the super luxury segment bursting, I have been wondering what makes these new breed of apartments so special that a new category has been created just to justify its existence.

Is this a marketing gimmic created by the developers to exploit the innate competitiveness of mankind or are consumers truely demanding for such developments?

In the market today, we have seen 5 projects which have been classified under this category.

1. Saint Regis Residences
2. Beaufort at Nassim
3. Parkview Eclat
4. MarQ
5. Orchard Turn

Comparing these 5 projects with each other, there are distinct price, location, design, value added differences and similarities between them.

Location:
Although these 4 project are located in different locations (i.e. Cuscaden, Nassim, Grange, Paterson, Orchard), they are all situated in the prime of prime district 9/10 enclave. There is no doubt that all these locations are within a km or less from the heart of Singapore's premier shopping hub (Orchard/Scotts cross junction). However what makes these locations so special that the developers have chosen to build their super luxury developments there? The view? Good road access? Mature trees? Lower plot ratios? Height restrictions?

Price:
Price wise, all these apartments are asking S$3000 psf. However there seem to be quite a big price range when an absolute price comparison is done. Should absolute price be an entry requirement into this super luxury league?

Design:
Exclusivity seems to be the main selling point used for most of these developments. Beaufort at Nassim has 30 units. Parkview Eclat has 35 units. MarQ has about 90. Orchard Turn and St Regis both have 100 to 200 units each. IMHO, i do not think a development that has more than 100 units warrants the usage of the term exclusivity.

Also, from what I have seen so far, besides having more expensive fittings and floorings than any luxury class apartment, I do not think there's any other design differences between a luxury and a super luxury apartment.

Value added services:
Concierge service seems to be a must for any super luxury apartment. What other services do you think a luxury apartment should have?

It seems that most new apartments have their facilities off ground these day. Is this a trend or have facilities been moved indoor due to land/space constrains? Should this be a consideration when designing a super luxury property?

Ultimately, my main question to everyone is

What do you look for when purchasing a super luxury property?

This will be an interesting thread for people involved in architecture and construction as well as for investors and buyers. I have noticed some unhappiness in the forum recently and hopefully we can all pull our resources together and have a happy discussion here.

Baby · February 15th, 2007, 07:11 AM

Size does matter as well on top of the above.

SmallInvestor · February 15th, 2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby

Size does matter as well on top of the above.

Hi Baby,

How big should a super luxury apartment be?

Si

arthur · February 15th, 2007, 09:44 AM

Hi SI,

Orchard View and Scotts Square by Wheelock should be in your list.

IMHO, I think Tate Residences should be in your list as well. The location of Tate Residences is super good.

Baby · February 15th, 2007, 09:51 AM

Has to start at 2500 - 3000 sq ft and above + with high ceiling + at least a 3 or 4 bedrooms and beyond )

This will make it affordable only to super rich. The absolute price will be too high for a normal rich or speculator to bet given a higher premium.

Definitely it can't be studio or 2 bedders.

arthur · February 15th, 2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallInvestor

Design:
Exclusivity seems to be the main selling point used for most of these developments. Beaufort at Nassim has 30 units. Parkview Eclat has 35 units. MarQ has about 90. Orchard Turn and St Regis both have 100 to 200 units each. IMHO, i do not think a development that has more than 100 units warrants the usage of the term exclusivity.

Also, from what I have seen so far, besides having more expensive fittings and floorings than any luxury class apartment, I do not think there's any other design differences between a luxury and a super luxury apartment.

Value added services:
Concierge service seems to be a must for any super luxury apartment. What other services do you think a luxury apartment should have?

skypark at somerset. 29 units only, with concierge too.

arthur · February 15th, 2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby

Has to start at 2500 - 3000 sq ft and above + with high ceiling + at least a 3 or 4 bedrooms and beyond )

This will make it affordable only to super rich. The absolute price will be too high for a normal rich or speculator to bet given a higher premium.

Definitely it can't be studio or 2 bedders.

scotts square only has 1/2/3 bedroom. 341 unit. even if it launch at say $3,000PSF, will it be classified under Super Luxury Property?

LittlePig · February 15th, 2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthur

scotts square only has 1/2/3 bedroom. 341 unit. even if it launch at say $3,000PSF, will it be classified under Super Luxury Property?

say a 1 bedder is 600sf... at $3,000psf, its $1.8million... still affordable for many people, especially the yew tee aunties (first coined by the guru, hehe)... so don't think it should be classified under Super Luxury Property...

a super luxury property must, IMHO, not be 99 year leasehold and cannot have units smaller then 2,000sf, else people like David Gan cannot host parties comfortably...

SEAfan · February 15th, 2007, 10:14 AM

I would want a super luxury VIEW with my super luxury apartment!

arthur · February 15th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittlePig

say a 1 bedder is 600sf... at $3,000psf, its $1.8million... still affordable for many people, especially the yew tee aunties (first coined by the guru, hehe)... so don't think it should be classified under Super Luxury Property...

a super luxury property must, IMHO, not be 99 year leasehold and cannot have units smaller then 2,000sf, else people like David Gan cannot host parties comfortably...

i saw the report on he wanted a bigger space for 'watch or skincare parties with my clients', i laugh non-stop

LittlePig · February 15th, 2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEAfan

I would want a super luxury VIEW with my super luxury apartment!

not all St Regis Residences units offer super luxury views...

DKSG · February 15th, 2007, 11:55 AM

The super luxury property is a term coined by developers ...
The real meaning of super luxury is "we are charging you exorbitantly more ..."

The same property is being sold ... just that the prices is now extremely high ...

The reasons for the formation of this market ... foriegners ... and of course the super rich (this I can define ... as people who has so much many that commoners like you and me cannot finish eating in 1 lifetime) ...

How do we define then ... well ... just by the marketing and limiting the supply ... look at St Regis ... opp is Cuscaden Residences ... the prices used to be super different ... whats the difference in product ? not very much, in monetary sense ...

So, in conclusion, when more and more properties in prime area jump on this super luxury marketing bandwagon ... we will see when the segment gets over crowded ...

YFG ... ...

arthur · February 15th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEAfan

I would want a super luxury VIEW with my super luxury apartment!

where do you have in mind?

Sharkie · February 15th, 2007, 12:52 PM

imho

1) location - property needs to be near to orchard turn
2) pricing - defintely need to be above 3000psf at current prices
3) size - should only hv 3-bedders or bigger where the smallest unit is ard 2000sf
4) site - the land area should at least be 70-80k sf.
5) fittings - the best money can buy
6) vas - all services available in a 5-star hotel

hmm... can only drool, probably cant afford such an apt in my lifetime.

sharkie

SmallInvestor · February 15th, 2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthur

skypark at somerset. 29 units only, with concierge too.

Although Skypark is expensive, I have never considered this a super luxury development. Possibly because of the inferior location this development sits on when compared to the others.

SEAfan · February 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittlePig

not all St Regis Residences units offer super luxury views...

Well, I was merely saying that IF (and that's a HUGE BIG if) I were in the market for a super luxury pad, I'd get one with a view to match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthur

where do you have in mind?

Nothing in particular, these are simply idle musings. On the other hand, if James Adams, who designed Parkview Square, one of my all time favorite buildings in the whole wide world

is also in charge of the Parkview Eclat project and comes up with a similarly delightful retro design, I'd be SO thrilled!

SmallInvestor · February 16th, 2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEAfan

On the other hand, if James Adams, who designed Parkview Square, one of my all time favorite buildings in the whole wide world

is also in charge of the Parkview Eclat project and comes up with a similarly delightful retro design, I'd be SO thrilled!

James Adams is the architect for Parkview Eclat! I went to the Parkview Eclat thread and got the information from the article. I have never been to Parkview square but I was told the building is very classy and luxurious. Anyway, I heard that there is a very exclusive very high ceiling bar/wine bar in that building too. Is that true?

RafflesCity · February 16th, 2007, 01:59 AM

apparently, the waitresses are even dressed up as fairies and glide up and down from the ceiling.

Cant find pics of them...here is an entrance shot by Pengui:

More pics of the building and plaza here...its got to be the most opulent commercial building:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=102208

SmallInvestor · February 16th, 2007, 03:20 AM

Thanks Rafflescity!

Hopefully the interior of the units at Parkview Eclat won't be as opulent as this else it will feel as though one is staying in a 6 star business hotel! IMHO, residences are meant to be cosy however i'm sure the architect has taken that into account.

Anyway, having seen the pictures of Parkview Square, Parkview Eclat maybe a sell out project afterall.

SmallInvestor · February 16th, 2007, 05:55 AM

Luxury property market still has room to grow: developer
By Johnson Choo, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 12 February 2007 2023 hrs

SINGAPORE : There is still room for the luxury segment of the Singapore property market to grow.

This is the view of Chyau Fwu Development, the builder and owner of Art Deco development Parkview Square.

The developer, which is now preparing to launch its first residential project in Singapore, said this was an opportune time to roll out apartments that can appeal to the ultra-rich from the region.

In reply to a query in parliament on Monday, the government said that despite rising prices in the super luxury property market, there was no indication of a property bubble forming.

National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan said, "It is evident that prices and take up of private housing are rising sharply only in the Core Central Region. In other parts of Singapore, the increase is steady and is supported by economic fundamentals."

Developers like Chyau Fwu agree.

They said that even at present prices, luxury properties in Singapore are still attractive.

Eddie Chow, Senior Executive, Chyau Fwu Development, said, "The Singapore luxury market is still comparatively low in Asia, particularly when compared with cities like Hong Kong. Of course if the market continues to grow and to rise in terms of price, one day there will be a certain limit. Nevertheless, I see within the next 12 months or so, the limit is not reached yet."

While the typical three-bedroom unit ranges from 1,500 to 2,000 square feet in size, Chyau Fwu is offering something different with Parkview éclat.

Mr Chow said, "We find that it does not really fit into the definition of luxury. So we have then decided that we want to build something starting with 3,000 square feet, and of course upwards. Only when you have reached that kind of space, we can start talking about luxury."

The 35-apartment luxury development along Grange Road will feature three-bedroom units of at least 3,000 square feet.

And Chyau Fwu said the price of S$3,000 per square foot set by St Regis was a realistic reflection of market demand.

It believes there is room for prices to climb.

The developer said it planned to launch the project sometime within the first half of this year, and pricing would be determined closer to the launch date.

But it is believed that the pricing will be more than S$3,000 per square foot, which means the smallest unit is going to cost close to S$10 million. - CNA/ms

February 15th, 2007, 04:56 AM	#1
SmallInvestor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 431 Likes (Received): 0	The super luxury property As we enter the era where we see the first bud of the super luxury segment bursting, I have been wondering what makes these new breed of apartments so special that a new category has been created just to justify its existence. Is this a marketing gimmic created by the developers to exploit the innate competitiveness of mankind or are consumers truely demanding for such developments? In the market today, we have seen 5 projects which have been classified under this category. 1. Saint Regis Residences 2. Beaufort at Nassim 3. Parkview Eclat 4. MarQ 5. Orchard Turn Comparing these 5 projects with each other, there are distinct price, location, design, value added differences and similarities between them. Location: Although these 4 project are located in different locations (i.e. Cuscaden, Nassim, Grange, Paterson, Orchard), they are all situated in the prime of prime district 9/10 enclave. There is no doubt that all these locations are within a km or less from the heart of Singapore's premier shopping hub (Orchard/Scotts cross junction). However what makes these locations so special that the developers have chosen to build their super luxury developments there? The view? Good road access? Mature trees? Lower plot ratios? Height restrictions? Price: Price wise, all these apartments are asking S$3000 psf. However there seem to be quite a big price range when an absolute price comparison is done. Should absolute price be an entry requirement into this super luxury league? Design: Exclusivity seems to be the main selling point used for most of these developments. Beaufort at Nassim has 30 units. Parkview Eclat has 35 units. MarQ has about 90. Orchard Turn and St Regis both have 100 to 200 units each. IMHO, i do not think a development that has more than 100 units warrants the usage of the term exclusivity. Also, from what I have seen so far, besides having more expensive fittings and floorings than any luxury class apartment, I do not think there's any other design differences between a luxury and a super luxury apartment. Value added services: Concierge service seems to be a must for any super luxury apartment. What other services do you think a luxury apartment should have? It seems that most new apartments have their facilities off ground these day. Is this a trend or have facilities been moved indoor due to land/space constrains? Should this be a consideration when designing a super luxury property? Ultimately, my main question to everyone is What do you look for when purchasing a super luxury property? This will be an interesting thread for people involved in architecture and construction as well as for investors and buyers. I have noticed some unhappiness in the forum recently and hopefully we can all pull our resources together and have a happy discussion here. Last edited by SmallInvestor; February 15th, 2007 at 06:04 AM.

February 15th, 2007, 09:44 AM	#4
arthur Savills Realtor Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,112 Likes (Received): 0	Hi SI, Orchard View and Scotts Square by Wheelock should be in your list. IMHO, I think Tate Residences should be in your list as well. The location of Tate Residences is super good. __________________ cell: (+65) 9853-1740 email: kwokarthur@yahoo.com

February 16th, 2007, 05:55 AM	#20
SmallInvestor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 431 Likes (Received): 0	Luxury property market still has room to grow: developer Luxury property market still has room to grow: developer By Johnson Choo, Channel NewsAsia \| Posted: 12 February 2007 2023 hrs SINGAPORE : There is still room for the luxury segment of the Singapore property market to grow. This is the view of Chyau Fwu Development, the builder and owner of Art Deco development Parkview Square. The developer, which is now preparing to launch its first residential project in Singapore, said this was an opportune time to roll out apartments that can appeal to the ultra-rich from the region. In reply to a query in parliament on Monday, the government said that despite rising prices in the super luxury property market, there was no indication of a property bubble forming. National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan said, "It is evident that prices and take up of private housing are rising sharply only in the Core Central Region. In other parts of Singapore, the increase is steady and is supported by economic fundamentals." Developers like Chyau Fwu agree. They said that even at present prices, luxury properties in Singapore are still attractive. Eddie Chow, Senior Executive, Chyau Fwu Development, said, "The Singapore luxury market is still comparatively low in Asia, particularly when compared with cities like Hong Kong. Of course if the market continues to grow and to rise in terms of price, one day there will be a certain limit. Nevertheless, I see within the next 12 months or so, the limit is not reached yet." While the typical three-bedroom unit ranges from 1,500 to 2,000 square feet in size, Chyau Fwu is offering something different with Parkview éclat. Mr Chow said, "We find that it does not really fit into the definition of luxury. So we have then decided that we want to build something starting with 3,000 square feet, and of course upwards. Only when you have reached that kind of space, we can start talking about luxury." The 35-apartment luxury development along Grange Road will feature three-bedroom units of at least 3,000 square feet. And Chyau Fwu said the price of S$3,000 per square foot set by St Regis was a realistic reflection of market demand. It believes there is room for prices to climb. The developer said it planned to launch the project sometime within the first half of this year, and pricing would be determined closer to the launch date. But it is believed that the pricing will be more than S$3,000 per square foot, which means the smallest unit is going to cost close to S$10 million. - CNA/ms

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February 15th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#2
Baby Baby Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,537 Likes (Received): 0	Size does matter as well on top of the above.

February 15th, 2007, 09:51 AM	#5
Baby Baby Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,537 Likes (Received): 0	Has to start at 2500 - 3000 sq ft and above + with high ceiling + at least a 3 or 4 bedrooms and beyond ) This will make it affordable only to super rich. The absolute price will be too high for a normal rich or speculator to bet given a higher premium. Definitely it can't be studio or 2 bedders.

February 15th, 2007, 10:14 AM	#9
SEAfan mumbling imprecations Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,432 Likes (Received): 0	I would want a super luxury VIEW with my super luxury apartment!

February 15th, 2007, 11:55 AM	#12
DKSG Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 344 Likes (Received): 0	The super luxury property is a term coined by developers ... The real meaning of super luxury is "we are charging you exorbitantly more ..." The same property is being sold ... just that the prices is now extremely high ... The reasons for the formation of this market ... foriegners ... and of course the super rich (this I can define ... as people who has so much many that commoners like you and me cannot finish eating in 1 lifetime) ... How do we define then ... well ... just by the marketing and limiting the supply ... look at St Regis ... opp is Cuscaden Residences ... the prices used to be super different ... whats the difference in product ? not very much, in monetary sense ... So, in conclusion, when more and more properties in prime area jump on this super luxury marketing bandwagon ... we will see when the segment gets over crowded ... YFG ... ...

February 15th, 2007, 12:52 PM	#14
Sharkie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 152 Likes (Received): 0	imho 1) location - property needs to be near to orchard turn 2) pricing - defintely need to be above 3000psf at current prices 3) size - should only hv 3-bedders or bigger where the smallest unit is ard 2000sf 4) site - the land area should at least be 70-80k sf. 5) fittings - the best money can buy 6) vas - all services available in a 5-star hotel hmm... can only drool, probably cant afford such an apt in my lifetime. sharkie

February 16th, 2007, 01:59 AM	#18
RafflesCity By Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S I N G A P O R E Posts: 26,215 Likes (Received): 2	apparently, the waitresses are even dressed up as fairies and glide up and down from the ceiling. Cant find pics of them...here is an entrance shot by Pengui: More pics of the building and plaza here...its got to be the most opulent commercial building: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=102208

February 16th, 2007, 03:20 AM	#19
SmallInvestor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 431 Likes (Received): 0	Thanks Rafflescity! Hopefully the interior of the units at Parkview Eclat won't be as opulent as this else it will feel as though one is staying in a 6 star business hotel! IMHO, residences are meant to be cosy however i'm sure the architect has taken that into account. Anyway, having seen the pictures of Parkview Square, Parkview Eclat maybe a sell out project afterall.