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Old March 5th, 2007, 07:44 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
I'm sorry, you are so far off the mark here. The two big CD stores in central London (and there are so many large CD stores in central London) are as large as a typical suburban Saturn or Mediamarkt in their own right,

Imo there are two which are very big:
The first one is the Virgin Mega store at the Tottenham Court Road/ Oxford Street junction. (Great store btw.)
And the second was just sold off by Virgin.
It was located at Piccadilly Circus.
The others, for example the HMVs dont have a larger CD department imo than your average Saturn store.


Quote:
yet their specialty is music and video rather than just a tiny section. Their selection is enormously vast compared to the offerings of WOM or Saturn, and their prices are so much better.
Yes, they specialize on music, videos and video-gaming.
But name me something out of their selection that you wont get in a Mediamarkt?
Apart from music instruments that is, which can be found in the basement of that Virgin Megastore in Tottenham Court Road?

Quote:
One of my closest friends in Frankfurt works in WOM which has the largest selection in Frankfurt and he agrees with me on this discussion as well.
Hmm, the WOM in my city was minimized to 1/4 of its former size.
That happened already 5 years ago.
It used to be great, and now its crap.
But this is just the normal trend and the sign of the internet age.
People dont buy CDs anymore. Saturn and Mediamarkt can still afford to have a large CD department because they are selling other things but WOM cant because they have focused on Cds and DVDs only.

Quote:
I'm a musichead, and music is a deep passion of mine. When I come back from London, my suitcase is loaded with CD's that are either not available in Frankfurt or far cheaper.
Well Im a music head too.
But in the almost 3 years that I lived in London I bought exactly 1 CD.
I bought it over Amazon as it was a german CD.

Quote:
The specials you find in these big stores can be astonishing.
Which specials for example??

Quote:
Please forgive me. Where is Mediamarkt in central Frankfurt? The Saturn store in central Frankfurt is quite small.
I cant tell you.
Ive spent exatly 1 day of my life in Frankfurt so far.
What I can tell you however is, that the Mediamarkt in my city is located in the city.
Its not in the city center fair anough but it isnt in the outskirts either.
Plus you have Saturn and similar stores right in the city center.

Quote:
Hang on a second here. You are debating me on shopping in Frankfurt, and you don't even know the shops in Frankfurt.
Well I was talking about general shopping in Germany.

Quote:
You are supposed to bargin there. All the shops are next to each other and compete. You walk into one, ask them to drop the price etc. I've made some great bargins doing that on Tottenham Court Road.
Well they didnt accept their product back when it turned out that we werent happy with it.
The other thing was, that the range is limited.

Quote:
And I can also tell a story of sitting in a pub in central London on a Sunday night talking about the PS2 with a friend when he decided on the spot to go out and buy one. Try buying a PS2 on a Sunday at 10:45PM in central Frankfurt.
I aggree that our Sunday shopping laws are crap, no question about that.


Quote:
McDonalds can be found everywhere in the world, but would you say they make the best hamburgers on the planet?
Well MediaMarkt doesnt produce its electronic devices.
They just buy them in huge numbers and then sell them to you
Those small stores in Tottenham Court Road are doing the same thing, but on a much smaller level.
And that means that the range is small and the prices are high.

Last edited by GNU; March 5th, 2007 at 07:49 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 08:54 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Imo there are two which are very big:
The first one is the Virgin Mega store at the Tottenham Court Road/ Oxford Street junction. (Great store btw.)
And the second was just sold off by Virgin.
It was located at Piccadilly Circus.
The others, for example the HMVs dont have a larger CD department imo than your average Saturn store.
HMV certainly do have a larger CD department in their flagship store. The HMV flagship on Oxford Street is only slightly smaller then the Virgin Megastore, and the Virgin Megastore is as large as an average multifloor Saturn or Mediamarkt - yet it specializes in music and video rather than everything electrical like Saturn and Mediamarkt. In either S or MM, the music section is just a small couple of rows in the big complex unlike the two big HMV or V stores where they can occupy more than one floor.

Even the Fopp flagship store in London has more music floorspace than anything in central Frankfurt.

By the way, according to wikipedia Virgin Music withdrew from Germany because of the restrictive shopping hours in the country ;O) Sounds familiar?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Yes, they specialize on music, videos and video-gaming.
But name me something out of their selection that you wont get in a Mediamarkt?
Easy, just about anything that isn't mainstream. Try finding the Cat Empire. That band recently toured Germany. I went to their concert at the cocoon club in Frankfurt a couple of weeks back, and despite being completely sold out, you can't buy any of their CD's in any Frankfurt music store. No probs in London though. Just one example of countless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Apart from music instruments that is, which can be found in the basement of that Virgin Megastore in Tottenham Court Road?
Speaking about which, and regards to the excellent shopping in London, walk a bit down Charing Cross Road from the Virgin Megastore and you hit Denmark Street. Virtually every single store on that street there is a music shop (selling instruments). That's another thing I love about shopping in London. You can find streets which specialize in one particular type of product. Denmark Street is all musical instruments, Tottencourt Road is all electrical (at one end), Charing Cross Road is famous for it's book shops etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Hmm, the WOM in my city was minimized to 1/4 of its former size.
That happened already 5 years ago.
It used to be great, and now its crap.
But this is just the normal trend and the sign of the internet age.
People dont buy CDs anymore. Saturn and Mediamarkt can still afford to have a large CD department because they are selling other things but WOM cant because they have focused on Cds and DVDs only.
The trend is far more pronounced in Germany then. Although Virgin had moved out of the Piccadilly store, Fopp recently opened their new flagship store and is doing extremely well. There is no shortage of sales at the big London flagships, they are crowded with buyers.

One of the big differences that keeps drawing in the public are the amazing sales. Everytime I go to London I pull back half my suitcase full of CD's at great prices. Kasabian's latest for £5, Fat Boy Slim for £4 etc. Those same albums here are always full price at Mediamarkt, WOM or Saturn. Fopp is one of the best for the specials. Of cause, you can't always get what you want at the best sale price, but still I can find loads of stuff that I wanted which would have cost double back in Frankfurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Which specials for example??
It's not only CD's but DVD's as well. I bought the Lord of the Rings Box Set in Virgin at the time for £19.95 (€30). That's for the 12 DVD box. Now it's advertised at £25 (€36) Link, a bit more, but that's still half what they offer in the German stores around €68 link


Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
I cant tell you.
Ive spent exatly 1 day of my life in Frankfurt so far.
What I can tell you however is, that the Mediamarkt in my city is located in the city.
Its not in the city center fair anough but it isnt in the outskirts either.
Plus you have Saturn and similar stores right in the city center.
No, there is no mediamarkt in the city in Frankfurt. The closest I think is in the NorthWestCentrum shopping mall, in the suburbs (15 stations away on the U-bahn) and one in the Hessen Center which is about 9-10 stations from central Frankfurt.

There is a Saturn in central Frankfurt, but only a small one. It's not a full sized store, but a cutdown one. The closest full sized Saturn is in Bornheim, which is not as far out as the Mediamarkts certainly, but not downtown. London also has these bigbox stores in the suburbs such as PCWorld and Dixons/Currys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Well MediaMarkt doesnt produce its electronic devices.
They just buy them in huge numbers and then sell them to you
Those small stores in Tottenham Court Road are doing the same thing, but on a much smaller level.
And that means that the range is small and the prices are high.
??? Again, you are comparing inner city stores of London to Suburban stores of Frankfurt. If you go to the suburbs of London, you can find the big box stores the same size as the suburban mediamarkts of Frankfurt such as PC World, Curry's etc.

However, those inner city stores in Tottencourt road are not all as small as you have been suggesting. Their computer product ranges are excellent and they also have a much larger range of less "mass produced" or specialist products that the mediamarkts or PCWorld's offer, and unlike German stores, you can really bargin there. That's how it works in London. I know Bargining is an odd thing for Germans to grasp, as until a few years ago, prices in Germany were totally fixed with limited or no sales, specials and certainly not barginning. Things have opened up in the German market since then, but it's still not as widely done as in the UK.

Then of cause are the excellent camera shops there. The two big ones on New Oxford Street (just off Tottencourt Road) have brilliant service and are far bigger than the equivilent in Frankfurt. But of cause, this is a pointless arguement. London is a much larger city, and has many more photographers than Frankfurt. It's only natural to assume there is more on offer there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Well I was talking about general shopping in Germany.
I'm just talking about Frankfurt. I have experienced the shopping in other cities in Germany and often they are better. Berlin has excellent shopping for example. I have also found that small German cities can have excellent shopping as well. Kempten in the Allgäu for instance is quite a small city, but considering it's size, it has a brilliant range of shops, both street shopping and a fair sized modern central city mall.

Frankfurt however, lacks for a city of it's size and importance.

The other great thing about shopping in London is the specialist stores. I love maps. There is a very small map store in Frankfurt, but there are a couple in London and one is three floors in size with a massive range. Or the incredible markets. You can buy really cool T-shirts in Spitalfields or Camdentown markets that you would never dream of finding in Frankfurt. The great comics to be found in the Forbidden Planet Megastore (sometimes claimed as the worlds largest comic store) have a range that you could never find also in Frankfurt.

But I'll give some credit to Frankfurt shopping. As far as clothes shopping goes, it can be annoying in central London (Oxford Street) due to the large crowds and many of the main stores have limits what you can take into the changing cubical. It is certainly more relaxed in Frankfurt.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 12:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
and the Virgin Megastore is as large as an average multifloor Saturn or Mediamarkt

As I said there are two stores which are bigger than an average Mediamarkt.
Dont forget however that even in the Megastore at Tottenham Court Road theres only one floor dedicated to Cds.
The basement is for music instruments and the upper floor is for DVDs and video gaming.


Quote:
- yet it specializes in music and video rather than everything electrical like Saturn and Mediamarkt. In either S or MM, the music section is just a small couple of rows in the big complex unlike the two big HMV or V stores where they can occupy more than one floor.
In a Virgin the CD department usually covers one floor only.
Theres the HMV flagship store at Oxford street where you have two floors if I remember correctly.
The second floor was for classical music.
Apart from that the offerings are similar.
But for every Virgin/HMV Megastore that you have in Britain there are probably 10 Mediamarkts and Saturns in Germany.

Quote:
By the way, according to wikipedia Virgin Music withdrew from Germany because of the restrictive shopping hours in the country ;O) Sounds familiar?

are you talking about this?

Quote:
Virgin Megastore withdrew from the German market in 1994, amid complaints that the country's shop-closing law was too restrictive.

Virgin returned to Germany with a new store (not a "Megastore") that opened in the new central station in Berlin in May 2006.


So they thought that they cant cut it in the "normal" shopping hours?
The truth is: When they came to Germany they were informed about the shopping hours.
I guess that they were just missing customers because they couldnt offer things cheaper or in greater variety than other stores.
The same thing was the problem for Wall Mart which had to withdraw from Germany.
The market was too competitive for them.


Plus this is from Wiki aswell:

Quote:
As more and more high street stores venture into the media sales market keeping up with competition is proving to be a hard fought battle for the UK Megastores. Big name supermarket chains in particular have adopted stocking popular music and DVD titles at increasingly low prices. For example the DVD Wedding Crashers, released 28 December 2005 retailed at Tesco for £15.97 compared to a Virgin price of £19.99. The popularity of Video games has also seen cheaper competition keeping the customers away from the Megastores. A report published in August 2005 stated that Virgin Megastores have lost £260m in the past two years, according to accounts recently filed with Companies House, and remains solvent only with the help of hefty loans from other companies in Sir Richard's empire (Branson is passionate about his music shops, as it was the foundation he built his business on). The retail chain has borrowed £287m from related companies in the Virgin group, a debt that grew by £117m in the financial year to March 2004. Chairman John Jackson, a long-standing Branson lieutenant, said that since then the retailer has borrowed more from the parent company.

The Virgin Megastores are carrying losses and they would have been sold off if it hadnt been for loans of the Virgin parent company.
As I said the Virgin in Piccadilly Circus has already been sold and it will not be the last one.
Eventually London will go through the same experience that Germany has gone through.
Which means: Fewer and smaller CD departments.
I aggree that this sucks.


Quote:
Easy, just about anything that isn't mainstream. Try finding the Cat Empire.
Never heard of it to be honest.
Its sported on the german amazon site though.
You have to keep in mind though that this is a UK? band?
However, how many german Cds would you find in London?
In Germany youd get any german music.
That takes up selling space aswell.


Quote:
Fopp recently opened their new flagship store and is doing extremely well.
Ok but how do you know?
I also thought that Virgin was doing well at Piccadilly but then they suddenly closed off.


Quote:
There is no shortage of sales at the big London flagships, they are crowded with buyers.
They are crowded with people
A lot of people just go there to spend a few minuted before the bus comes.
Sure they sell a lot. the question is: Do they sell enough to finance themselves?
Obviously not, as seen in the wiki source that I posted before.

Quote:
One of the big differences that keeps drawing in the public are the amazing sales. Everytime I go to London I pull back half my suitcase full of CD's at great prices. Kasabian's latest for £5, Fat Boy Slim for £4 etc.
Youd get special offers in a Saturn and Mediamarkt aswell.
Theres no problem in picking up a 3 year old CD for 5 Euros.
And Im sure that youll find Fatboy Slim Cds for 6 to 7 Euros in a Mediamarkt.

Quote:
It's not only CD's but DVD's as well. I bought the Lord of the Rings Box Set in Virgin at the time for £19.95 (€30). That's for the 12 DVD box. Now it's advertised at £25 (€36) Link, a bit more, but that's still half what they offer in the German stores around €68 link

You are comparing the price from Virgin with Amazon.
thats not comparable imo.


Quote:
No, there is no mediamarkt in the city in Frankfurt. The closest I think is in the NorthWestCentrum shopping mall, in the suburbs (15 stations away on the U-bahn) and one in the Hessen Center which is about 9-10 stations from central Frankfurt.
There are 3 Mediamarkt stores in Frankfurt

http://www.mediamarkt.de/maerkte/fra...dex.php?csi=45

And the two Saturn stores are in the city.
One of them offers 65,000 CDs and 25,000 DVDs on 1400 square meters.
Thats not bad for a Saturn imo.

Plus from Wiki:
Quote:
Media Markt is a German chain of stores selling consumer electronics with numerous branches throughout Europe. It is Europe's largest retailer of consumer electronics.

Quote:
However, those inner city stores in Tottencourt road are not all as small as you have been suggesting. Their computer product ranges are excellent and they also have a much larger range of less "mass produced" or specialist products that the mediamarkts or PCWorld's offer,
They are small and their range is limited imo.
If you want to buy computer hardware in Germany you probably wont go to a Mediamarkt or Saturn.
Youd have to go to a K&M elektronik or ARLT store maybe.
Those are superb and they have the cheapest prices Ive seen.
Plus the service is good, even though K&M kind of sucks recently.
You have something that you dont like, then you bring it back and youll get something else.
Mediamarkt is good for computer gadgets and monitors maybe.


Quote:
and unlike German stores, you can really bargin there. That's how it works in London. I know Bargining is an odd thing for Germans to grasp,
You can certainly bargain but whats the point when its overprized in the first place?

Quote:
I'm just talking about Frankfurt. I have experienced the shopping in other cities in Germany and often they are better.
Ok fair enough.

Quote:
Berlin has excellent shopping for example. I have also found that small German cities can have excellent shopping as well.
I just had a look and its really kind of strange that Frankfurt only has 2 Saturns compared with 10 in Berlin and only 3 Mediamarkts compared with 15 in Berlin.

Quote:
Frankfurt however, lacks for a city of it's size and importance.
Ok that might be true.

Quote:
Or the incredible markets. You can buy really cool T-shirts in Spitalfields or Camdentown markets that you would never dream of finding in Frankfurt.
True but common,
the big markets in Kensington or Spitalfields do surely offer more.
(Even though Spitalfields isnt that big afterall)
London is a bigger city.
Frankfurt is a banking city.
I would be surprised to find some decent markets in Frankfurt at all.

Last edited by GNU; March 6th, 2007 at 12:29 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #64
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wow, what happened here, it was suposed to be a Photo Thread
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:50 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
As I said there are two stores which are bigger than an average Mediamarkt.
Dont forget however that even in the Megastore at Tottenham Court Road theres only one floor dedicated to Cds.
The basement is for music instruments and the upper floor is for DVDs and video gaming.
In a Virgin the CD department usually covers one floor only.
Theres the HMV flagship store at Oxford street where you have two floors if I remember correctly.
The second floor was for classical music.
Apart from that the offerings are similar.
But for every Virgin/HMV Megastore that you have in Britain there are probably 10 Mediamarkts and Saturns in Germany.
I counted 170 Mediamarkts in Germany (and none in central Frankfurt) and 115 Saturn. Compared to 130 Virgin Megastores in the UK.
There are 400 HMV stores around the world, with the bulk in the UK (don't know exactly how many) And not to mention the 40 Fopp stores. so I think your maths is a bit wrong. I havn't even begun to mention the number of Dixons and Currys in the UK (hundreds each) which along with PC World (163 in the UK) are the main UK equivilent of Mediamarkt and Saturn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Never heard of it to be honest.
Its sported on the german amazon site though.
You have to keep in mind though that this is a UK? band?
However, how many german Cds would you find in London?
In Germany youd get any german music.
That takes up selling space aswell.
Excellent that they have made Amazon.de. I've been wanting their "Cities" album for a while. Now I don't have to wait until I go to London next month.

Thanks for pointing that out. I last checked three weeks ago and they still were not there. Pretty expensive though at €30. I may as well buy of amazon.co.uk as it's half price.

No, not British, an Australian band.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post

There are 3 Mediamarkt stores in Frankfurt

http://www.mediamarkt.de/maerkte/fra...dex.php?csi=45

And the two Saturn stores are in the city.
One of them offers 65,000 CDs and 25,000 DVDs on 1400 square meters.
Thats not bad for a Saturn imo.
Still no Mediamarkts in the city. And that's what we were comparing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
I just had a look and its really kind of strange that Frankfurt only has 2 Saturns compared with 10 in Berlin and only 3 Mediamarkts compared with 15 in Berlin.
This is what I mean. I'm not knocking Germany here, I'm complaining about the shopping in Frankfurt. And Frankfurt really does lack.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #66
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First off, let me reiterate that Newfvgffm's pictures are the best that I have seen of Frankfurt (and I've seen a lot of them). The discussion on CD stores may seem irrelevant here in a photo thread but actually it's a good point to talk about as an otherwise well-rounded city as Frankfurt does have a few things missing, like Dunkin' Donuts (like the ones in Berlin), a SeaLife center (like the one in Munich), a good musical venue (like the ones in Stuttgart or Cologne), non-elitist live music bars (like in Berlin) and, as said, a good CD store (like the ones in any major city outside of Germany).

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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
I find it bizarre however that the Saturns and MediaMarkts in Frankfurt are supposed to be crap when in my hoemtown theyre just fine.
CD stores are having trouble all over the world, I agree. The closing of the famed Tower Records (especially the stores on Piccadilly and the ones in LA) is a real loss to music shoppers around the globe. Nonetheless, I found that the HMV or Virgin stores I visited in Denver, Chicago, SanFran, London or Strasbourg (!) are all doing fine. Compared to the mediocre Saturn and MediaMarkts, all of them had live DJs in the store, very good cafes with free magazines to read, about three times as many listening stations as ANY German CD store, well-stocked Indedendent sections, knowledgable service dudes and best of all, good prices. In comparison a typical Saturn has cheap fluorescent lights, narrow isles where only two people can pass through at a time and ignores about 2/3 of the music genres out there (they have 4 categories: pop/rock, classic, rap, techno). If HMV or Virgin were still around in Germany, I'm sure Saturn would have to clean up their act really quickly (in German there's the saying "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschäft" meaning "Competition spurs efficiency").

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Old March 6th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #67
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However, I do love the great store "No.2" in Sachsenhäüsen. It's a terrific little 2nd hand CD and record store, with great service and good prices.
G'day Justme, could you let me know where exactly this store is? I have been frantically looking for a good second hand CD store ever since the one on Berger Strasse closed (and also my favorite live music bar, Blues and Beyond). BTW, if you like jazz or classical there is a pretty good selection in the Goethe Haus CD store and in ZweiTausendEins (across from Wacker's Kaffee), which are both small but a-ok.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 09:12 PM   #68
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what happened to the pictures? Where are they???
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Old March 6th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #69
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So they thought that they cant cut it in the "normal" shopping hours?
The truth is: When they came to Germany they were informed about the shopping hours.
I guess that they were just missing customers because they couldnt offer things cheaper or in greater variety than other stores.
The same thing was the problem for Wall Mart which had to withdraw from Germany.The market was too competitive for them.
Don't see WalMart as a loss at all, good riddance, in fact. However, you can add Marks & Spencer to your list of failed concepts in Germany. It closed all its stores in Germany 5 years ago. The one in Frankfurt was very well visited (especially the food dept) and everyone I've talked to saw the closing of HMV, Virgin and Marks & Sparks as a great shopping loss. BTW, the GAP, a famous American apparel store, closed all its shops in Germany 2 years ago whilst they are doing just fine in France or the UK. It may just be that the German consumer is a no-frills shopper and is a bit skeptical towards "new kids on the block" (actually anything new). Relatively new stores that are faring well in Frankfurt, however, are American Apparel (which rocks!) or Starbucks (I think there must be about 20 of them now in RheinMain area). Perhaps the reopening of the Virgin in Berlin means that in 1 or 2 years Frankfurt will most likely have one, too. Can't wait!
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Old March 6th, 2007, 11:15 PM   #70
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that CD talkin is annoying.
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Old March 7th, 2007, 08:17 AM   #71
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G'day Justme, could you let me know where exactly this store is? I have been frantically looking for a good second hand CD store ever since the one on Berger Strasse closed (and also my favorite live music bar, Blues and Beyond). BTW, if you like jazz or classical there is a pretty good selection in the Goethe Haus CD store and in ZweiTausendEins (across from Wacker's Kaffee), which are both small but a-ok.
No probs, it's on Wallstraße in Sachsenhäusen. If you go by public transport, get the 30 or 36 bus and get off at affentorplatz, it's just a short walk down that street. Keep in mind it's closed on Mondays though, and opening times are generally when they wake up ;O) But when open, it's a great little store. Generally, 2nd hand CD's go for €7 (some a bit cheaper) and they have quite a wide range.

By the way, regarding the Marks & Spencers closure, I agree that was really sad. That shop, like most of their European stores were actually doing very well. It closed due to a bad management decision in the UK when their European stores were doing well, but they were having problems with the UK stores. Weird to close the profitable ones. Anyway, now that the UK M&S are doing well again, they are starting to open up in Europe once more. Let's hope they remember how successful the Frankfurt store was and reopen here.

I just found out yesterday that one of the best bag shops in Frankfurt is also closing. Can't remember the name, but it had an excellent range and good service. I bought all my suitcases, rucksacks etc there since I arrived. It's closing because the the guy who owns it has to move out and they can't find any other suitable store to continue. Sad as they were doing really well. Extra sad because it was supposed to be the last non-chain store on the Zeil. And terribly sad because the new mall will one day open on the Zeil but not in time for this store. (Thanks Kaufhof for doing your best to slow this project down)
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Old March 7th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #72
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that CD talkin is annoying.
Would you prefer pictures?


(including some suburban areas)












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Old March 7th, 2007, 12:10 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Justme View Post
I counted 170 Mediamarkts in Germany (and none in central Frankfurt) and 115 Saturn. Compared to 130 Virgin Megastores in the UK.
There are 116 Saturn stores in Germany according to Wiki.
And there are 215 Mediamarkt superstores in Germany and 450 in Europe.
Not accounted in this figure are other electronic retailer chains of which there are quite a few aswell.

Mediamarkt and Saturn make a turnover of 13,3 billion Euros a year.
(not even to mention the parent company "Metro")
For comparison: HMVs turnover was 2.683 billion Euros in 2005.

Considering the 120 Virgin stores:
I suspect that a lot of these stores are actually normal Virgin stores and not Megastores.

From Wiki:
Quote:
There are now over 120 stores throughout the UK (including Virgin xs and Virgin Xpress) and many more stores around the world, with an online store and a digital download service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_xs


Quote:

There are 400 HMV stores around the world, with the bulk in the UK (don't know exactly how many) And not to mention the 40 Fopp stores.
Most HMV stores are normal outlets.
Only a small fraction out of those are Megastores.

Quote:
so I think your maths is a bit wrong. I havn't even begun to mention the number of Dixons and Currys in the UK (hundreds each)
Could you Pls give me a source which shows the number of the Dixons and Curreys?
Ive been looking a bit but couldnt find any info.

Quote:
Excellent that they have made Amazon.de. I've been wanting their "Cities" album for a while. Now I don't have to wait until I go to London next month.
Amazon.de exists since a long time.
The first time I bought a CD there was back in 1999 I think.
Its quite helpfull.
As I said: When I stayed in London amazon was also the only option for me to buy german CDs.

Last edited by GNU; March 7th, 2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old March 7th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Age View Post
Frankfurt does have a few things missing, like Dunkin' Donuts (like the ones in Berlin),
Germany is not america.
We dont even have a lot of Starbucks (just like France and Italy) because we always had a thriving cafe culture.
The same applies to Dunkin Donuts.
Its meaningless.
People here dont eat Donuts. Its as simple as that.
Youd have local bakeries all over the place which sell "Berliners" for example.


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CD stores are having trouble all over the world, I agree. The closing of the famed Tower Records (especially the stores on Piccadilly and the ones in LA) is a real loss to music shoppers around the globe. Nonetheless, I found that the HMV or Virgin stores I visited in Denver, Chicago, SanFran, London or Strasbourg (!) are all doing fine.

Well obviously they arent doing so fine.
They bring in huge losses and the Megastore branch needs to be kept alive by the Virgin parent company.
Maybe the megastores are just being kept alive because they are a good advertising tool for Virgin.
Otherwise it doesnt make any sense at all.
Ive already told Justme that my local WOM has shrunk to 1/4 of its former size already 5 years ago.
It used to be a great store and now its crap.


Quote:
If HMV or Virgin were still around in Germany, I'm sure Saturn would have to clean up their act really quickly (in German there's the saying "Konkurrenz belebt das Geschäft" meaning "Competition spurs efficiency").

Now why arent there any HMVs in Germany which is the biggest consuming country in Europe?
Vodafone for example (Britains biggest mobile phone operator) has its core market in Germany.
Why would HMV miss out then if they had a field day here?

Last edited by GNU; March 7th, 2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old March 7th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Age View Post
However, you can add Marks & Spencer to your list of failed concepts in Germany.
Foreign supermarket chains will have enormous trouble of getting into the german market.
The problem is that none are able to undercut the prices of cheap discounters like Aldi or Lidl.
Thats the very reason why Wallmart had to sell its shops.
Everywhere else they are undercutting the local supermarkets in prices but in Germany they didnt manage to do the same.
At the same time youd have a fair share of german discounters in Britain.
They are doing very well there because they are cheaper than the local competition.


Quote:
It closed all its stores in Germany 5 years ago. The one in Frankfurt was very well visited (especially the food dept) and everyone I've talked to saw the closing of HMV, Virgin and Marks & Sparks as a great shopping loss.
Well that cant be.
If it would have been such a success then they would have stayed.


Quote:
BTW, the GAP, a famous American apparel store, closed all its shops in Germany 2 years ago whilst they are doing just fine in France or the UK. It may just be that the German consumer is a no-frills shopper and is a bit skeptical towards "new kids on the block"
The german shopper is mostly concerned about the prize.
Ive noticed that in Britain, rich people will be ashamed to shop in cheap discounters whereas in Germany youd see everybody in there.
The market is also more competitive than in other countries as there are many local chains.
GAP would probably have had trouble whilst competing with C&A.
Apart from that there are many foreign success stories.
H&M is doing well and IKEA cant complain either as no other coutry hosts more IKEAS than Germany.
As you can see: If a concept is good and if a store offers something new for cheap prizes then itll get customers.
There are 41 IKEA stores in Germany compared to 12 in England and 29 in the US.

Last edited by GNU; March 7th, 2007 at 12:54 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 08:26 AM   #76
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Checker, why are you still debating on shopping in Frankfurt when you have admitted you know virtually nothing about the shops in Frankfurt?

As for the supermarkets in Germany, I think you are right about Germans prefering cheap over service. Maybe that's also why Germany has far more Ikea's than everywhere else. For me personally, I'd rather spend a little more and get a little more for my money. But that's just me I suppose. And I'd rather hang myself than go to an Ikea on a Saturday here.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 08:38 AM   #77
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All that aside, some more photos of Frankfurt.









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Old March 9th, 2007, 12:14 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Germany is not america. We dont even have a lot of Starbucks (just like France and Italy) because we always had a thriving cafe culture.The same applies to Dunkin Donuts.Its meaningless.People here dont eat Donuts.
Right on, Checker, BUT just because Germany has a thriving coffee and bakery culture it doesn't exclude American style coffee bars. Plus, have you visited the Dunkin Donuts in Berlin or Bonn? They're doing good business me thinks. The Starbucks are hardly symbolic of a cultural demise, it's merely a quality coffee company from Seattle that has kind of a cult following among people who enjoy spending 4 Euros for an ordinary latte. In general, the "Germany is not America" argument may sound attractive to some, BUT Germany being the number one exporting country in the world depends on foreign consumers like almost no other country and, in the end of the day, has made it into one of the wealthiest areas globally. Thus it's the old saying: People who live in glas houses (or in this case are largely globalization beneficiaries) shouldn't throw stones (shouldn't condemn what has been the foundation of their own wealth).

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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Well obviously they arent doing so fine.
By the looks of it you're right, but on second thought, why the hell do I have to cross the border to France (i.e., Strasbourg) to visit an awesome Virgin Megastore? It just seems so random, but perhaps the management team in Germany simply did a shoddy job.
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Old March 9th, 2007, 12:28 PM   #79
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Very nice additional pics, Justme (even got the nice getwaway town of Bad Homburg on there). Also, I really appreaciate the CD store directions.

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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
The german shopper is mostly concerned about the prize. Ive noticed that in Britain, rich people will be ashamed to shop in cheap discounters whereas in Germany youd see everybody in there.
You are absolutely right, I actually love that quality of the German shopper. It's no loss of prestige to buy cheap because Germans look for quality at an affordable price. They know a deal when they see it. On the other hand, however, they pay 20,000 plus Euros for a mediocre VW Golf or 30,000 for a Mini Cooper without complaining. Cars, travel and appartments therefore are a different ballgame, here's where they spend big-time.

But to summarize what we've said so far: Shopping in Germany could be better, but given the size of a city like Frankfurt and the fact that big shopping mall projects are on the way, the diversity is actually not that bad. Also, as Virgin might be reopening in Frankfurt sooner than later, our discussion is highly likely to become obsolete.

Last edited by Golden Age; March 9th, 2007 at 12:34 PM.
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Old March 9th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #80
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m & s, starbucks and dunkin donuts

the food department of marks & spencer was very popular, but marks & spencer had to close, because a) the withdrawl from the continent was the strategy and b) because marks & spencer had just horrible fashion that no one in germany would want to buy. and they couldn't just leave the food department there ...

and speaking of starbucks - frankfurt has more starbucks than anywhere else in germany, I believe only berlin has the same amount - but duh... starbucks sucks - there's nothing to be proud of - there are dozens of much better coffee houses in the city.

and finally dunkin donuts: dunkin donuts is slowly expanding in germany - they started in berlin and now they moved to the ruhr - area, other areas will follow soon - frankfurt area too ... london doesn't have dunkin donuts too - does that make it a bad city?
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