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Old July 5th, 2013, 02:46 PM   #2101
ElviS77
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Originally Posted by Agent 006 View Post
We could always hope for something better, but when road authorities at a national level have decided this solution, I clearly doubt any improvements will happen.

BTW, the H7+ profile will look like this: 2,25 + 3,5 + 3,5 + 0,5 + 2,0 + 0,5 + 3,5 + 3,5 + 2,25 = 21,5. The only thing separating this from the H9 profile is the width of the emergency lanes, which is 2,25 m instead of 3,0 m.
Nothing is really decided yet, it's quite unlikely that they will start building the road this decade. That said, if the "reguleringsplan" is passed with the abovementioned standard, it's more likely that it will eventually happen. But again, early days...
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Old July 5th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #2102
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Even if you combine all traffic crossing the mountains in southern Norway, the AADT doesn't exceed 5000, and much of that traffic isn't between Oslo and Bergen.
True. Although a 100 km/h motorway would cut hours off the drive between Oslo and Bergen.

If Kristiansand - Bergen would ever become a motorway, it will likely be as fast as driving one of the east-westroutes from Oslo to Bergen, despite being a couple of hundred kilometers longer.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #2103
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Your first point is certainly true. The second is true today, but it is highly likely that one or more of the direct connections at this hypothetical point in time would have been improved enough to still be considerably faster than going around the southern tip of Norway.

Edit: We should perhaps keep in mind that the first ferry-free Oslo-Bergen road link opened just 20 years ago and that Måbødalen from Galro's picture was a part of one of the links ten years before that (and all of the links had roughly similar sections...).
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Old July 5th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #2104
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And there's nothing wrong with a single carriageway motorway/expressway.

Worth pointing out that the US build some very empty interstates (the emptiest being in Maine).

It would also induce traffic, removing them off planes.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 06:46 PM   #2105
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOvjtqpgrsc

is an excellent example of what was a main highway only 30 years ago. It used to be part of the (then) rv 13 between Voss and Dale - towards Bergen - but after the Bergsdalen road was replaced in the 1980s, some serious renumbering went on and today the closest main road is the E16. I remember this road in particular, because it's the only road my father, after driving there in the late 70s, flat-out refused to drive ever again!
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Old July 5th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #2106
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I'm going to do a science fiction question I think, but I have to do it:

- Considering that Norway is the richest country in the world, why the government doesn't do a motorway between Bergen and Oslo? You have the money, perhaps is impossible considering the environment? I don't know and that's for I quest.
Norway is a very sparsely populated plus a very mountaineous country. I think that in some less developed countries lots of villages wouldn't be accessible by road at all. And the bigger cities like Trondheim and Bergen are just too far away for commuting, hence intercity traffic is practicly non-existent.

Having said that: it's still a bit of shame that quite some roads seem te be in such a bad condition. I understand it's difficult to maintain so many roads with just a few hundred users a day plus I suppose that winters can be quite harsh, but still.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #2107
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Welcome. I do statistics of roads in Europe. I have question.
What is the total length of Norway Motorways and Expressways?
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Old July 6th, 2013, 02:51 AM   #2108
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What is the total length of Norway Motorways and Expressways?
Wikipedia is always a friend. In this instance, even a fairly accurate one, as far as I can see: 407 km motorway, 444 km expressway (this includes 2-lane undivided roads, 1+1, 2+1 and 2+2 rural roads and a few urban 2+2s and even fewer 3+3s).

In addition, there are a some kms of divided, grade-separated roads - most notably Oslo's Ring 3 - which aren't posted as either motorway or expressway.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #2109
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I found a few historic pictures of Norwegian roads form the '60s
Good stuff.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #2110
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Originally Posted by Agent[/url
006;104931682]Actually their starting to make a “reguleringsplan” for the stretch now.

I got the information from a document called Prinsippskisse for planlegging E6 Ranheim - Værnes. I can be found on the following address, if you click on the item "tilleggsdokumenter" on the site. Unfortunately you have to be registrated as an “oppdragssøker” to open it. So you must create a fictive account to get it. Alternatively I can send it over to you as a “vedlegg” if I got your
e-mail address.

http://www.doffin.no/search/show/sea...x?ID=JUL200432


The document shows “Vegdirektoratet” allows “Statens vegvesen Region midt” to create a new standard just for this stretch alone. They call it H7+, and have the geometry of the new H5-standard, and almost the width of the new H9-standard (21,5 vs. 23 meter).

Very strange I must say.
Essentially, the governmental planners try to cover up past ****-ups by making new ones, ensuring that this important link will remain substandard ad infinitum :http://www.vegvesen.no/Europaveg/e6o...%93V%C3%A6rnes
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #2111
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Essentially, the governmental planners try to cover up past ****-ups by making new ones, ensuring that this important link will remain substandard ad infinitum :http://www.vegvesen.no/Europaveg/e6o...%93V%C3%A6rnes
I don't disagree, but the number one priority at the moment is obviously the tunnels. I can't really see them being replaced instead of dualled, so that doesn't change much, the way I see it. For the rest of the road, the KS1 at least recommends a proper 100 kph alignment. Whether that becomes reality, is mainly a question of money and political willpower, and since the main planning most likely will happen under a new government, we'll just have to wait and see what they are willing to do in position.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #2112
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Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Wikipedia is always a friend. In this instance, even a fairly accurate one, as far as I can see: 407 km motorway, 444 km expressway (this includes 2-lane undivided roads, 1+1, 2+1 and 2+2 rural roads and a few urban 2+2s and even fewer 3+3s).
Wow, more than 800 km of undivided highways, I think for a country of 4 million unhabitants this is a lot.

How many km of motorways are under construction? Somebody knows?

Norway is a big country and a rich country but has the population very dispersed I understand. But the quality of roads is good isn't it? In cold countries the preservation of the roads is very expensive because ice damage roads. Scandinavian countries has to spend a lot of money in preservation of their roads I think.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #2113
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We're more than 5 million now...

I reckon you meant 800 kms of divided, not undivided highway..? That's not completely accurate, as a considerable part of the expressways are undivided 2-lane roads. Still, a guesstimate (including some non-motorways/-expressways) would be in excess of 600 kms of divided highway.

Road quality differs considerably, and we're way behind Finland and Sweden, for instance, but motorways and expressways are generally good. For the rest of the road network, the situation is not so good. Trunk roads are generally better than regional roads which again are generally better than local roads, but it's far from an absolute state: Many regional and local roads are in a better state than the trunk roads they are linked with, and along any road you find considerable differences in road quality. We have traditionally rebuilt our network section by section, meaning that you may go directly from a brand-new expressway-style road to an old country road within a few kms.

In terms of construction: Roughly 50 kms of motorway being built at the moment (including dualling of 2-lane expressways), a similar amount is in an advanced state of planning and perhaps a further 100 kms will happen in the not too distant future. Expressways is a bit more difficult, but the number isn't that different from the motorways. Some expressways are also in the process of being divided with a concrete barrier or a guardrail. The expected change in government this autumn will probably increase the pace somewhat.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #2114
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I don't disagree, but the number one priority at the moment is obviously the tunnels. I can't really see them being replaced instead of dualled, so that doesn't change much, the way I see it. For the rest of the road, the KS1 at least recommends a proper 100 kph alignment. Whether that becomes reality, is mainly a question of money and political willpower, and since the main planning most likely will happen under a new government, we'll just have to wait and see what they are willing to do in position.
My guess is that the current tunnels have acceptable alignment, so the road geometry problems are probably in other parts, in particular the sections around Hommelvik. In addition it seems like the just opened (!) railway tunnel tunnel running in parallel with the Hell tunnel is causing problems for a dualing with proper alignment at the eastern side. It would be stupid to just dualing the tunnels and not the rest of the road, and I don't think that will happen. The whole stretch has a traffic that is already well above the 4-lane limit according to the Norwegian standards, and clogging is an increasing problem.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #2115
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Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
I don't disagree, but the number one priority at the moment is obviously the tunnels. I can't really see them being replaced instead of dualled, so that doesn't change much, the way I see it. For the rest of the road, the KS1 at least recommends a proper 100 kph alignment. Whether that becomes reality, is mainly a question of money and political willpower, and since the main planning most likely will happen under a new government, we'll just have to wait and see what they are willing to do in position.
I still believe improvements could happen. A new government is however a supposition for any changes, and the first barrier we have to cross. 2018 is probably the earliest possible start of construction (2017 for the tunnels). Tolls from the E6-traffic are supposed to pay all of the costs connected to the not-tunnel parts, while the tunnels are being 100 % financed through public budgets.

A lower limit regarding common sense among Norwegian road authorities doesn’t appear to exist, though…

For E6 Sentervegen – Klett it’s probably too late. In a new and revised “reguleringsplan” they’ve changed the profile from H9 and 100 kph to H7 and 80 kph. The construction starts next year.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #2116
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My guess is that the current tunnels have acceptable alignment, so the road geometry problems are probably in other parts, in particular the sections around Hommelvik.
No doubt about that. I don't see the rest of the road's alignment being that difficult - and expensive - to build to 100 kph standard. The Hommelvik area is a bit different, though, and it wouldn't surprise me if that part remains as a 90 kph section.

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In addition it seems like the just opened (!) railway tunnel tunnel running in parallel with the Hell tunnel is causing problems for a dualing with proper alignment at the eastern side.
That's just weird...

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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
It would be stupid to just dualing the tunnels and not the rest of the road, and I don't think that will happen. The whole stretch has a traffic that is already well above the 4-lane limit according to the Norwegian standards, and clogging is an increasing problem.
Well, I can see the tunnels being built first, actually. Bidirectional tunnels with an 15000 AADT are seriously frowned upon. It would be rather silly, of course, but it might hapen anyway...
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Old July 7th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #2117
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For E6 Sentervegen – Klett it’s probably too late. In a new and revised “reguleringsplan” they’ve changed the profile from H9 and 100 kph to H7 and 80 kph. The construction starts next year.
My guess is that it's the ascent from Klett to Sandmoen that's the main concern. It's rather steep - currently 7%, new motorway 6%. Still, I do hope they keep full-width shoulders.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 02:06 AM   #2118
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My guess is that it's the ascent from Klett to Sandmoen that's the main concern. It's rather steep - currently 7%, new motorway 6%. Still, I do hope they keep full-width shoulders.
Well, I think they’ve got an exception to the 5 % demand in the original “reguleringsplan”. They were allowed to build a H9-motorway with 6% gradient then.

Unfortunately, the emergency-shoulders are cut from 3,0 m to 1,5 m in the new plan. I don’t know the reason for sure, but I know they were instructed to reduce costs due to exceedings in the project E6 Jaktøya-Tonstad.
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Old July 9th, 2013, 03:16 AM   #2119
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At least in Trøndelag, it seems like the norm is that the norm is not adhered to...
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Old July 16th, 2013, 07:11 PM   #2120
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*Breaking news* There have been a major breakthrough in case of the new Garderveien, a road which was initially stopped after they found a protected mushroom on a dead tree rot, as the county governor have drawn his objection for the plans. I believe the new Garderveien is part of the project to build a new national road 22 between Fetsund and Lillestrøm .

http://www.rb.no/lokale_nyheter/article6762424.ece

Last edited by Galro; July 16th, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
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