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Old September 16th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #2241
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
The fire chief in Karmøy did not approve of the fire safety in the newly built Karmøy Tunnel (part of the T-Forbindelsen) and wanted to prohibit heavy trucks from using it.

http://www.bygg.no/2013/09/112490.0

However the road authorities decided to rebuilt/refit the new tunnel in accordance with the fire chiefs safety requirements and it will now be open for all after all.
A few years ago, the fire chief of Porsanger took a similar action to force the road admin to upgrade the Skarvberget tunnel on the E69 leading to the North Cape. She wanted to close to tunnel to all vehicles. I think that lead to some upgrades. Still, the tunnel is substandard.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #2242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
The fire chief in Karmøy did not approve of the fire safety in the newly built Karmøy Tunnel (part of the T-Forbindelsen) and wanted to prohibit heavy trucks from using it.

http://www.bygg.no/2013/09/112490.0

However the road authorities decided to rebuilt/refit the new tunnel in accordance with the fire chiefs safety requirements and it will now be open for all after all.
Both Karmøy and Tysvær fire chiefs, yeah. They were making a major problem for the road authorities - the E134 tunnel in Førre will close for renovation around new years, and the truck routes to Karmøy will be a choice of Karmøytunnelen or the major detour north through Sveio and the already severely overloaded Karmsundgata through Haugesund town centre.

There's also talk about closing Karmsund bridge (or at least limiting it to alternating one-way traffic) for some _much_ needed maintenance.

I have to say the tunnel has made an enormous improvement in traffic conditions. There used to be queues at the bridge morning and afternoon, which would spread over the whole district if there was an accident or a car broke down. Traffic is flowing now.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #2243
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Do local fire chiefs have so much power? Aren't there national regulations about fire safety in Norway?
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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #2244
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Do local fire chiefs have so much power? Aren't there national regulations about fire safety in Norway?
According to the law, "The municipality may order any fire preventive measures considered necessary in individual cases regarding any construction, store, site, tunnel, etc." (http://www.dsb.no/Global/Publikasjon...0of%20Fire.pdf, §14)

So the jobsworths in Oslo or Brussels don't necessarily know best.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #2245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Do local fire chiefs have so much power? Aren't there national regulations about fire safety in Norway?
Norway follows the national regulations and the EU tunnel directive. A similar legislation is in place in Finland: The rescue authorities do have power to forbid using any building or structure in extreme cases. Typically, such an action is not taken, but the owner is ordered to make the corrections.

The regulations are somewhat ambiguous. The Norwegian fire and road authorities faced a disagreement at the E69 tunnel case, for instance. The road authorities claimed that the tunnel is out of scope of the directive because the annual average traffic is less than the threshold of 500 vehicles per lane per day. However, the fire authorities disagreed, because the summer-time traffic well exceeds the threshold by several hundred vehicles.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #2246
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The situation is the same in the Netherlands, the municipality issues the opening permit of a tunnel or bridge, but only after the local fire department approved it.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #2247
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The situation is the same in the Netherlands, the municipality issues the opening permit of a tunnel or bridge, but only after the local fire department approved it.
The route 3/E12 in Hämeenlinna, Finland, was covered by a tunnel of less than 500 metres. The speed limit in the tunnel is still 70 km/h, because the arrangements have not yet been approved by the fire and road authorities. The tunnel itself is ok, but the test last week caused enormous queues. The reason was that detour via streets was a disaster because on traffic light timings. The city of Hämeenlinna got an action point to replan the exception arrangements before the next approval test.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #2248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Peasant View Post
According to the law, "The municipality may order any fire preventive measures considered necessary in individual cases regarding any construction, store, site, tunnel, etc." (http://www.dsb.no/Global/Publikasjon...0of%20Fire.pdf, §14)

So the jobsworths in Oslo or Brussels don't necessarily know best.
Off topic, the DSB is located in Tønsberg: www.dsb.no
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Old September 21st, 2013, 11:35 PM   #2249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Point 1 is a point. But what he use as evidence isn't good. It shows that investments hasn't been a large priority. However, as far as I know, roads are treated as public spending in the state budget. So I wouldn't be to sure that it goes under investments in that report either. And what he should have shown, is Norwegian numbers compared to Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland etc.
Point 4 isn't a direct point. But an indirect point.
Point 6 isn't a good one either. But perhaps such projects should have a different funding. Read city development funds or environmental funds. And not road funds through toll roads. But still these projects serve a function. And even tough it's possible to build out of queues, it's not necessary wished. I agree that a certain level of ring roads and connection roads is needed. But most city traffic should be done by public transport systems.
Point 7 isn't a good one either in my opinion. The problem isn't in which county investments has been made. But on what kind of road. Road investments in Norway has gone to any kind of road, rather than the main roads between the big cities.
I keep forgetting this thread

1) I assume the video wouldn't use that as an example if wasn't included in the "investment" part of that graph, but I don't really know. I agree with their general thrust - that we've under invested in roads for a looooong time - and I'm not alone in that regard. Agree with you that it would've been interesting to see numbers compared to CH, D, S, DK, SF etc.

2) This is well known. Of course, knowing about a problem won't do any good as long as we keep making the same mistakes over and over, but eventually I guess action will come.

3) This. Clearly, an economic model that doesn't punish a road which disintegrates after 25 years is nonsensical. I guess they used the same model a private investor will use to decide if an investment is profitable, but there are several key differences between permanent, public construction and private investment that are not taken into account. There seems to be some movement in the right direction.

Not that the cost-benefit analyses are considered when choosing road projects, but that's a different story. If they resonated better with their users, maybe they'd have a larger impact.

4) Agree with you, this is only an indirect effect. But psychology is a powerful force in politics.

However, I think maybe the video might be a little too cavalier about our topography. We should at least consider that this (in Norwegian) guy arguing against point 4) might be on to something. I think (being aware there is such a thing as a middle ground fallacy) the truth is somewhere in between; though probably closer to the video than the post by Fridstrøm - when main connecting roads are concerned.

5) Have to agree with the video on this one. But I guess even this could be an artifact of point 3): when no roads are profitable, making a long-term plan to sink an enormous amount of money into a line of financial disasters won't seem very appealing.

6) I disagree with you (and agree with the video) about point six. It seems quite perverse to build a brand new road that is designed to be inadequate for its purpose from the get-go, even if the primary goal of the new road is to better the local environment. When you have two clearly evident problems, you shouldn't spend billions fixing one and leaving the other when huge savings can be achieved by fixing both at the same time. As for spending over one hundred million kroner on two [email protected]¤&ing owls, well....

7) I don't see how you can say that our election system has nothing to do with this cluster. It doesn't do it all by itself, but it's part of it. The point is that the election system doesn't just lead to money being spent in politicians home counties, it leads them to spend it on local problems. Most counties are not interested in national problems. Politicians know that simply getting the money to their home county isn't going to cut it when it's just a long, straight road passing through (and probably ruining someones favorite hiking site). No, it has to actually scratch some local itch to work as what Americans call pork barrel spending.

8) Agree pretty much what the video says. And this is the other part of what leads to 7): even if Stortinget can agree on a good project, it may still be killed by the municipalities unless said local itches are scratched. Loads of good projects are killed, delayed or lose all their virtues this way.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 12:39 AM   #2250
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Quote:
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I keep forgetting this thread
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 10:13 PM   #2251
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New Åsta bridge in Åmot. It's part of national route 3 through the Østerdalen valley.



Location: https://maps.google.no/maps?q=%C3%85...173.21,,0,7.07

Source: http://www.ostlendingen.no/nyheter/d...s-ut-1.8080699
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Old September 25th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #2252
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Yes, most of the foundations had been casted when I passed a few weeks ago.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #2253
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E6 Stjørdal

The reconstructed E6 at Stjørdal will open on 1 October.

The project consists of;

* 5 km 2x2 E6
* Tang Tunnel (circa 400 m)
* 1,7 km northern ring road



map (north is right)
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Old September 26th, 2013, 01:53 AM   #2254
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And the roundabout infection spreads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iiphc4pfLgY

This project was started because a new motorway at this point wasn't planned until after 2030. Despite the fact that this road overqualifies as a motorway, today. Nevertheless, this would have been a good temporary solution for the next 15 years (it will be mostly finished by 2014-2015). Had it not been for the fact that the entire road from Oslo to Mandal will be motorway within the next ten years, and Kristiansand-Mandal will be the next big project. So the concrete on the too narrow underpasses won't be dry before the machines roll in again (this part is to be finished by 2023 at the latest, but probably before).

I'm wondering if this will be a world record for rebuilding a new road? Will only happen in Norway (and perhaps China, but for more obvious reasons.)
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Old September 26th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #2255
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^ This was also the case of the motorway E6 between Sarpsborg and Råde...

E134 Førresbotn near Haugesund is finished:







http://www.vegvesen.no/Europaveg/e13...kiv/529285.cms

Animation of Rv22 (Part of Oslos unnoficial Ring 4) is also subject to Round-about mania - it's not to long ago this road was rebuilt as a 3-lane road either:
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Old September 29th, 2013, 03:38 AM   #2256
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E18 Northern Vestfold toll-free today:



http://www.nrk.no/ostafjells/vestfol...is_-1.11268274
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #2257
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- Oh, gratis in spanish is free. Why they put this word in Norway?

- And other question: E39 road is previsted to upgrade to a motorway between Kristiansand and Stavanger? Or there is a very low traffic?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #2258
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Some words mean the same in multiple languages. The word gratis is understood in much of Europe.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gratis
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Old September 29th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #2259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
- And other question: E39 road is previsted to upgrade to a motorway between Kristiansand and Stavanger? Or there is a very low traffic?
The government has decided to build a 2 lane expressway with a central barrier between Vigeland and Ålgård.

Just another example of a lack of ambitions for the future road network.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 02:23 AM   #2260
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E16 between Gardermoen and Rv4 is also toll-free now: http://www.rb.no/bil/article6889511.ece

This is a road with some serious potential as an Oslo bypass. What it would need is a new connection to E6 northwards (at Råholt), and also a general upgrade between Lunner and Hønefoss (most of which is already planned).
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