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Old June 14th, 2014, 11:51 PM   #2661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
seconf off-topic question on this subject: is this the same as the diameter mathematical symbol when written on a Norwegian keyboard or not?
No, ⌀ and ø are not the same, or Ø and ∅ the same, any more than the letter O and the number 0 are the same. However, they are sufficiently similar that one could be replaced if excessively lazy (which would be a bit more defensible with mathematical symbols, that often are not available e.g. on a phone).

The characters have their root in ligatures used across much of Europe, together with changes in typography and vowel changes, so it is hard to say who invented it or where it was invented. The Æ is for instance used in English e ncyclopædia, while the Å originally was long A, written á or aa, but an old vowel shift made it sound like German O rather than A.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 11:58 PM   #2662
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Å originally was long A, written á or aa, but an old vowel shift made it sound like German O rather than A.
I wondered about that, they changed the name of Århus to Aarhus and Åbenrå to Aabenraa, which seems to sound different than the original names.

It's notable how none of the larger cities in Norway have special accents. Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, Stavanger, etc, are all fairly easy names.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 02:18 AM   #2663
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We should start writing it Áslo instead

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I doubt if it is safe to have 100 km/h on the Oslo 'motorways'. They are very curvy and don't seem to be designed for current traffic demand.

Are there plans for more bypasses? They need a lot of tunnels. I suppose the far, far majority of traffic on Ring 3 and E6 in Oslo has a destination or origin within the urban area.
Ring 3 is no motorway, as you say, but the main entry roads of E6 south/north and E18 west are fairly good. 100 km/h wouldn't be a problem. (with a few exceptions on E18, like at Bygdøy which would be hard to improve without serious scarring in the city/landscape around it).

Current focus on Ring 3 is tunneling where it has a negative impact on closeby residential districts, + increasing the coverage of the metro. ( in 2016 it runs from Gaustad/Blindern to Økern)

Only bypasses with a realistic time frame is an improved Oslofjord-passing close to the existing Oslo-fjord tunnel with better connections on both sides of the fjord; as well as an improvement of E16/Rv35 from Gardermoen to Hønefoss.

A lot of the heavy traffic on Ring 3 actually isn't headed for Oslo or anywhere near. Ferries and crappy roads in general leads traffic from Middle-Norway (Trøndelag, Møre og Romsdal) to Vestlandet/Sørlandet this way.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 01:56 PM   #2664
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Hardanger Bridge

Some photos of the Hardanger Bridge I took last week

The bridge is really magnificent, what a great piece of engineering. There is a rest area and viewing point on the southern side of the bridge. You can walk down the bridge from there, and walk or cycle across it (no tolls for them).

1. The bridge as viewed from the old ferry terminal.

Hardanger Bridge-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. The bridge viewed from the rest area at the southern side of the Hardangerfjord.

Hardanger Bridge-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. The whole bridge in one photo. These are two vertical photos stitched together, it's impossible to get the entire bridge in one photo from this close.

Hardanger Bridge-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. The 1,310 meter span is the longest in Norway and the third longest in Europe after the Great Belt Bridge and the Humber Bridge.

Hardanger Bridge-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Viewing across the bridge. The southern access viaduct was already repaved.

Hardanger Bridge-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Looking across the bridge to the north.

Hardanger Bridge-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. The whole bridge is barely longer than the main span. It immediately proceeds into tunnels on either side.

Hardanger Bridge-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. The pylons are 202.5 meters tall.

Hardanger Bridge-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. The toll rates.

Hardanger Bridge-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. AutoPASS equipment.

Hardanger Bridge-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. The southern tunnel. The bike path makes a loop towards the left.

Hardanger Bridge-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. On the bridge.

Hardanger Bridge-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old June 15th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #2665
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Is that real, 600 or 150 NOK for one bridge?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 03:52 PM   #2666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Is that real, 600 or 150 NOK for one bridge?
Yes.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 04:26 PM   #2667
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Ok wow, ppl here are angry over 9kr fee for the new bridges in Motala and Sundsvall..
150 nok is like 160 sek
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #2668
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Ok wow, ppl here are angry over 9kr fee for the new bridges in Motala and Sundsvall..
150 nok is like 160 sek
People are used to pay high tolls here. Just take a look at these prices at the Finnfast tunnel outside of Stavanger:



I believe it have since then been a reduction in the prices due to higher than anticipated traffic though.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:24 PM   #2669
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Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Ok wow, ppl here are angry over 9kr fee for the new bridges in Motala and Sundsvall..
150 nok is like 160 sek
Check the tolls for Öresundsbron

People in Germany are just the same. In Lübeck there is a toll charged tunnel. But people rather take a detour than paying 1,10 €. Really smart.

Back to Hardangerbrua: Is there a toll booth for cash paying? Can one pay with credit cards?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:26 PM   #2670
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Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
You will be more forced of the main roads and onto alternative back roads for example for Bergen - Voss there is the Bergsdalen route:
Yep, been there, this is a nice one.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:29 PM   #2671
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Many of these pricey toll tunnels or bridges would require extensive detours to be avoided, and/or they were served by ferries with charged the same price (if not more) and were often disrupted by high winds, and also took much longer.

This is very different than a situation where you just have a city bypass road/tunnel that you can avoid paying a bit.

-----------

Now a question: do they have monthly or annual subscription plans for these tolled infrastructures?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:35 PM   #2672
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Back to Hardangerbrua: Is there a toll booth for cash paying? Can one pay with credit cards?
No, AutoPASS only. The toll is higher than the former ferry, except when traveling with 3 or more persons.

I find the toll a bit too high for my liking. I don't mind paying a toll, but 80 or 100 NOK would've been more reasonable. The toll is fairly high compared to other toll roads in Norway. For example the Osterøy Bridge charges 62 NOK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Now a question: do they have monthly or annual subscription plans for these tolled infrastructures?
Yes, nearly all toll facilities in Norway offer discounts for frequent users. You can pay some in advance and get a progressive discount, depending on the amount paid in advance. It can be as much as 50%. The Hardanger Bridge has an 'avtale' where you can get as much as 50% discount on tolls. You have to pay 3750 NOK in advance.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:39 PM   #2673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

This is very different than a situation where you just have a city bypass road/tunnel that you can avoid paying a bit.
We often put up toll stations on the most obvious alternative routes to stop people taking detours to avoid paying the toll in areas where that would otherwise be possible, meaning what you describe is often hard to do in Norway anyway. Examples: The new bridge crossing Svinesund where a tolls were put at both the new and old bridge (the alternative route in that case), and the toll station north of Moss where tolls where put at both the new highway and the old Mossevei route (the possible alternative).
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #2674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
Check the tolls for Öresundsbron

People in Germany are just the same. In Lübeck there is a toll charged tunnel. But people rather take a detour than paying 1,10 €. Really smart.

Back to Hardangerbrua: Is there a toll booth for cash paying? Can one pay with credit cards?
Thats crossing a int border, thats a big deal with new lingo, new laws, new money, new everything.
Going from one town to another inside a nation should not cost 150 or 600 for just one bridge.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 05:51 PM   #2675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Thats crossing a int border, thats a big deal with new lingo, new laws, new money, new everything.
Going from one town to another inside a nation should not cost 150 or 600 for just one bridge.
With a traffic density so low, if you had to rely on taxpayers' money only this bridge would probably never have been built in the first place.

It's not the only route between the west and the east anyway. Lærdal tunnel was the first ferry-free route and I see a certain political interest in making that tunnel free.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:14 PM   #2676
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Lærdal Tunnel is toll-free and always has been

Apart from the toll cordon around Bergen and Oslo, the entire route via E16 is toll-free.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:12 PM   #2677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's notable how none of the larger cities in Norway have special accents. Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, Stavanger, etc, are all fairly easy names.
Tromsø, Ålesund, Tønsberg?

Btw, Bergen was known as Bjørgvin or Bjærgvin (or some other similar name) when it was established.

Last edited by Stafangr; June 15th, 2014 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Added the part about Bergen, and added Tønsberg to the list.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #2678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
Only bypasses with a realistic time frame is an improved Oslofjord-passing close to the existing Oslo-fjord tunnel with better connections on both sides of the fjord; as well as an improvement of E16/Rv35 from Gardermoen to Hønefoss.
Also there are improvements to Rv22 - section opening next year. Plans for a tunnel on E6 to bypass most of Ring3 (Hopefully in 15 years.)

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Originally Posted by Galro View Post
We often put up toll stations on the most obvious alternative routes to stop people taking detours to avoid paying the toll in areas where that would otherwise be possible.
We are no longer doing that i guess, instead there are smaller tolls more frequently such as on E18 Vestfold and E6 Akershus/Hedmark, both will have toll-free parallel routes.

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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Lærdal tunnel was the first ferry-free route and I see a certain political interest in making that tunnel free.
Political interests for sure, but it wasn't the first ferry free route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Apart from the toll cordon around Bergen and Oslo, the entire route via E16 is toll-free.
There is also a toll to be paid near Voss. A new toll will be introduced in Valdres next year, tolls are also planned for Hønefoss.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #2679
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huh those tolls are insane. is there some toll calculator for Norway?

also, how do you apply for Auto Pass? you took one at entrance to Norway? bought it, or only rented it?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #2680
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huh those tolls are insane. is there some toll calculator for Norway?

also, how do you apply for Auto Pass? you took one at entrance to Norway? bought it, or only rented it?
http://visveg.vegvesen.no/Visveg/map...366&height=568

http://www.autopass.no/en/visitors-payment
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