daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 10th, 2014, 09:30 AM   #2841
Heico-M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Flensburg, DE
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 115

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Lack of currency after ww2 and it was decided that what Norway had should rather be used to import necessarily things for rebuilding the country. Soviet on the other hand were willing to exchange cars for fish and gods which we had more of.
How does one imagine Norway in the 1960s then? Horse carriages and a few Ladas?
Heico-M no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 10th, 2014, 09:55 AM   #2842
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,483
Likes (Received): 2101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Soviet on the other hand were willing to exchange cars for fish and gods which we had more of.
Wasn't SSSR a non-confessional country? Did it import Thor? :-D
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 11:23 AM   #2843
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,300
Likes (Received): 538

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
How does one imagine Norway in the 1960s then? Horse carriages and a few Ladas?
Pre-1960 in the remote countryside? There wasn't even a connected road network for the cars to drive on. By 1960 all (?) the mainland towns and villages were connected by roads and car ferries and new regional bus routes (some island villages took longer), but there was a massive road construction program after the war, and before and during the war as well.

Before that? Boats mainly, that's how the villages got there in the first place. When there was land to cross you walked, sometimes across mountain passes. That was a bit easier in the winter time, when you could ski.

There were no buses, but the post boat could take you to the nearest town, which of course did have a road network and all the other trappings of civilisation.
__________________

Heico-M liked this post
:jax: está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 12:22 PM   #2844
sotonsteve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 39
Likes (Received): 3

Lovely to see videos on your YouTube account of the Norway wilderness ChrisZwolle. Out of interest, what is the second song in your video "Rv. 7 Norway: Hardangervidda part II
"?
sotonsteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #2845
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155

Numbers from the Nordic Nordic Council :

Sweden was a special case in 1960 due to its:
  • neutrality during ww2
  • domestic car production
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!

SRC_100 liked this post
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 03:17 PM   #2846
Galro
Humanity through Urbanity
 
Galro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,347
Likes (Received): 10030

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heico-M View Post
How does one imagine Norway in the 1960s then? Horse carriages and a few Ladas?
Lada was introduced in the mid'60s.

There were still quite a few cars here still despite the restriction, but it was of course fewer than today. Local shop owners, doctors, police officers etc. were usually considered to have an important enough job to be allowed to buy western cars, and every small towns had a few of those so you ended up with having a few cars after all.

All eastern block cars were popular. Gaz Volga were a common sight and were often used as cabs. IFA and Moskvitch were also popular. Outside of the eastern block we have always have had an preference for Swedish cars and both Volvo Pv and Saab 93 were hits here. There were also quite a few lower end four door American cars, which were considered to be luxury cars here. The various hardtops variants however were never popular here (too expensive) and have first become a common sight after they become classic cars in modern time. And of course there were the Volkswagen Beetle/Type 1 which was popular here as everywhere.

Last edited by Galro; July 10th, 2014 at 03:24 PM.
Galro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 03:30 PM   #2847
Galro
Humanity through Urbanity
 
Galro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,347
Likes (Received): 10030

Here is a shot film from Oslo in 1954 with footage of the traffic at the time:



And one from 1953:


But of course Oslo have always been more affluent that most of country.

Last edited by Galro; July 10th, 2014 at 03:36 PM.
Galro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #2848
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155


In 1954 there were already close to 180 000 vehicles in Norway. Interesting videos.

There were of course also a road network in Norway pre 1960s, the national road between Trondheim and Oslo was first mentioned in 1152. There were quite significant improvements to the network in 1930s (crisis years) and 1950s, though. Of course, some parts were more difficult to connect due to geography. As for "no buses", the first bus route in Norway was started in 1908, far away from Oslo, and my grandfather was actually a part-time pre-WW2 countryside bus driver. The seaways have however of course historically been the easy route, and still has a significant part of the domestic freight transport, far larger than the railways.

I did a dive into the statistics of SSB (Statistics Norway):

There have been some changes and additions in the chategories through the years, but the trend is pretty clear, since early 50s, the number of cars have increased steadily except small bumps in mid 70s and late 80s. No signs of slowdown currently. At the end of 2013 there were 2.9 M cars (passenger cars and lighter vans) in Norway, or 0.57 per capita.

Looking more detailed at the period before 1970, we see that there was no apparent kink / shift in the gradient around 1960:

The major increase started earlier in the 50s, and hence the attempt of market regulation seems to have had little effect. No big surprise there, people have a tendency to find a way around regulations like that.

In the graphs above, pre-1920 was almost invisible, hence I made a plot showing also the pre-war motor history of Norway, using a logarithmic scale. According to SSB, the first car was registered in Norway in 1899, and three years later there was also a motorbike!
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!

Suburbanist, :jax: liked this post

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; July 10th, 2014 at 07:45 PM.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 06:25 PM   #2849
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21236

Weren't railway links much faster on 19th century than sea links? If you look at rail maps, you can easily see they are rather fast considering the geography, they use inland shortcuts to places like Trondheim or Bodø, though it appears the only way to reach Narvik is via Sweden.

Before oil propulsion came to ships, I bet trains were faster than steamships, as the Norwegian coast is a hostile place for fast navigation - either deal with harsh open waters and direct routes, or use protected channels around fjords that increase distance a lot.

------------

Incidentally, I have a question: which is the larger Norwegian city not close to a navigable waterway offering a direct link to an oceanic port?

Another question: since Norway is still not part of EU, do they hear many problems about Norwegian-registered cars being taken by Swedes or Danish to their countries? This is sometimes a problem for EU-citizens of countries bordering Switzerland, especially in regard of luxury or high-performance sports' cars.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 07:05 PM   #2850
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155

..
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; July 10th, 2014 at 07:10 PM. Reason: double post due to technical issues
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 07:07 PM   #2851
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155

Trains / ships: You are right, but note that the first national railway in Norway connecting regions was completed in 1877 (Hamar to Trondheim via Røros). The railway took another 30 years to reach Bergen, so before that, sea travel was easier. It is actually possible to travel in sheltered water along most of the coast. Ship transport is generally cheaper and more energy efficient.

Norway only have two landlocked counties: Hedmark and Oppland, both with less than 200 000 inhabitants, representing about 7 % of the population in total. The biggest city in that region would be Hamar (26 000, 17th largest in Norway). Of course there are landlocked areas also in other counties, but all major cities have sea access. River transport is not widespread in Norway.

I never have heard about anyone stealing cars to Sweden. There has been some stories about cars being stolen and transported to the Baltics etc. , but generally, the old Norwegian car park is not that tempting....
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 07:45 PM   #2852
Galro
Humanity through Urbanity
 
Galro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,347
Likes (Received): 10030

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post

In 1954 there were already close to 180 000 vehicles in Norway. Interesting videos.
I wasn't referring to the number but rather the type of cars; Many seems to be American in origin and I can even spot what appears to be a Mercedes 300 there.
Galro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 07:50 PM   #2853
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155

Oh, I see. Then I rather should comment that "always" is a fairly strong word

Seen on youtube today (to friggin hot to do anything sensible):

Animation of plan for new E6 somewhat south of Trondheim, Røskaft-Skjerdingstad, 16.3 km, estimated construction start 2018/19:


From the new Trondheim Strindheimtunnel.
The weekend before opening:


After opening:
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; July 10th, 2014 at 08:52 PM.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #2854
cwestah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sarpsborg
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 5

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but I've had some toughs on an eastern and a western bypass of Oslo lately. As quite a lot of the south-north traffic is going through Oslo today and most of the inner Oslo highways consists of 2x2 and 2x3 lane roads, the traffic through the city is quite bad at times.

Building a fourth beltway\ring road has been discussed, however due to Øst- and Vestmarka (very popular nature reserves) the planning seems to have stalled every time.

Looking at the map, it seems to me that there are roads making a belt around the Oslo area outside these nature reserves already. Most of the roads are however too small or in too bad condition to be an alternative to drive through the city today.

The roads I'm thinking of is:

Western Route 35 Holmestrand - Hokksund - Hønefoss -> E16 Hønefoss - Gardermoen. (Passing E134, Route 7, E16 and Route 4 before E6 at Gardermoen)

Eastern Route 120 & 151 Vestby - Enebakk - Lillestrøm - Skedsmokorset -> E6 Skedsmokorset - Gardermoen (Passing E18, Route 159 and E16 before E6 at Gardermoen )

It was surprising to me to see that it'd only take you 20 mins longer going Moss - Lillehammer or Tønsberg - Hønefoss on these bypasses today. Not a lot of improvement would be needed in order to make them as fast as the E6\E18. Some of the segments of the roads are already being improved, my question is: Would it be an idea to have a long term strategy improving these roads to a future "Ring 4" in order to move the through traffic away from Oslo? Please see my below map for reference. (If we'll see a future Moss - Horten road link, it'd even be a full beltway...)

__________________

:jax: liked this post

Last edited by cwestah; July 10th, 2014 at 10:31 PM.
cwestah no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 10:33 PM   #2855
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

I drove E16 Hønefoss - Gardermoen last month. There are too many roundabouts near Gardermoen, 7 of them. However, Grua - Gardermoen is a fairly fast road, but would've been better with 2+1.

E16 in the Jevnaker area needs upgrading.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #2856
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21236

I still wonder is a Moss-Hørten toll tunnel couldn't be built on a financially feasible way.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 11:05 PM   #2857
cwestah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sarpsborg
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I drove E16 Hønefoss - Gardermoen last month. There are too many roundabouts near Gardermoen, 7 of them. However, Grua - Gardermoen is a fairly fast road, but would've been better with 2+1.

E16 in the Jevnaker area needs upgrading.
Sure, more or less the complete road will need an upgrade in order to facilitate as a possible beltway\bypass. What I'm wondering if it could be a possible project for the future as the road, even with todays poor standard, only takes 20 mins longer north-south than the major highways.
cwestah no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 11:14 PM   #2858
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 155

Regarding the western bypass, the road Grua-E6 I would say is decent despite the roundabouts. Other sections further west are not up to even the Norwegian standards, but there are improvement plans both for E16 and rv 35. The biggest problem I see with the western bypass is that it will mean a serious detour for anyone trying to transit between E6 N and the population centers south of Oslo. (I have tried it once in a while when I am aware of jams in Oslo, and have regretted each time....)

Regarding the eastern bypass, it makes more sense on the map, but at least last time I drove in the area the roads had a long way to go.

In short, I think it is better to concentrate on other challenges in the kingdom
__________________
Norway needs a new transport infrastructure network, let's start now!
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #2859
Heico-M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Flensburg, DE
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 115

Roundabouts is ideology in Norwegian
Heico-M no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2014, 12:33 AM   #2860
cwestah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sarpsborg
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
In short, I think it is better to concentrate on other challenges in the kingdom
Are you seriously saying we have other challenges when it comes to infrastructure in this country?
cwestah no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
norway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium