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Old July 11th, 2014, 10:31 AM   #2861
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Don't know if this has been discussed already, but I've had some toughs on an eastern and a western bypass of Oslo lately. As quite a lot of the south-north traffic is going through Oslo today and most of the inner Oslo highways consists of 2x2 and 2x3 lane roads, the traffic through the city is quite bad at times.

Building a fourth beltway\ring road has been discussed, however due to Øst- and Vestmarka (very popular nature reserves) the planning seems to have stalled every time.

Looking at the map, it seems to me that there are roads making a belt around the Oslo area outside these nature reserves already. Most of the roads are however too small or in too bad condition to be an alternative to drive through the city today.

The roads I'm thinking of is:

Western Route 35 Holmestrand - Hokksund - Hønefoss -> E16 Hønefoss - Gardermoen. (Passing E134, Route 7, E16 and Route 4 before E6 at Gardermoen)

Eastern Route 120 & 151 Vestby - Enebakk - Lillestrøm - Skedsmokorset -> E6 Skedsmokorset - Gardermoen (Passing E18, Route 159 and E16 before E6 at Gardermoen )

It was surprising to me to see that it'd only take you 20 mins longer going Moss - Lillehammer or Tønsberg - Hønefoss on these bypasses today. Not a lot of improvement would be needed in order to make them as fast as the E6\E18. Some of the segments of the roads are already being improved, my question is: Would it be an idea to have a long term strategy improving these roads to a future "Ring 4" in order to move the through traffic away from Oslo? Please see my below map for reference. (If we'll see a future Moss - Horten road link, it'd even be a full beltway...)

I like, and have for a long time though that a eastern bypass from Moss/Vestby to Skedsmokorset via Enebakk is a good solution, just as Your idea.

I`m more sceptical about Your western bypass tho. It`s way to long for any traffic going east of Rv. 4, as "Bouvet island" says. I think that a western bypass should be located not more than 5-10km inland from E18/Rv. 190/E6 from western Asker, crossing E16 in Bærum, via lower Nordmarka (will include many long tunnels if realistic), south of Maridalsvatnet, Gjelleråsen, and merge With E6 in the vicinity of Hvamskrysset.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by cwestah View Post
Don't know if this has been discussed already, but I've had some toughs on an eastern and a western bypass of Oslo lately.

The roads I'm thinking of is:

Western Route 35 Holmestrand - Hokksund - Hønefoss -> E16 Hønefoss - Gardermoen. (Passing E134, Route 7, E16 and Route 4 before E6 at Gardermoen)

Eastern Route 120 & 151 Vestby - Enebakk - Lillestrøm - Skedsmokorset -> E6 Skedsmokorset - Gardermoen (Passing E18, Route 159 and E16 before E6 at Gardermoen )

Or a northern and southern bypass. These routes are unequal, E6 has a lot of traffic, while I believe Hokksund-Gardermoen has very little. In time the proposed Ringeriksbanen, a high-speed rail connecting Sandvika with Hønefoss, could lead to major population growth in the Hønefoss area, I would assume a doubling. The Oslo area face significant population growth and Hønefoss would suddenly be in commute distance.

These New Hønefossians would need to go to the (Gardermoen) airport too, increasing the road traffic and the need to improve the roads. Jessheim has already doubled in size, and may be set to double once more. That would mean that this segment of E16 would connect two towns of 30-40k people and the national airport, which could also lead to more people living along this segment.

The hardest to justify segment might be Lillestrøm-Tomter. It would be shorter than the existing 22, but connect a whole lot of nothing. Of course, if the goal is to connect Akershus and Vestfold, or the region between Ski and Moss, while bypassing Oslo, the difference would be significant. Also, Lillestrøm would expect to grow as well and become a medium sized town in its own rights.

Last edited by :jax:; July 11th, 2014 at 12:04 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 01:28 PM   #2863
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When the Bastøtunnel is finished an eastern bypass will catch up Vestfold - Romerike aswell
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Old July 11th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #2864
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E16 Filefjell

The Borlaug Tunnel (4 km) opened to traffic yesterday.

http://www.vegvesen.no/Om+Statens+ve...Vis?key=655556

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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:06 PM   #2865
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Where exactly is this tunnel?
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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:56 PM   #2866
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Where exactly is this tunnel?
At E16 in Sogn and Fjordane county. One of the many routes between Oslo and Bergen.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...2450920ae900c2
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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:58 PM   #2867
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That stretch of E16 carries 700 vehicles per day...
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Old July 12th, 2014, 07:20 PM   #2868
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New rest stop on e6 north of Stjørdal in Nord Trøndelag.











http://www.vegvesen.no/Europaveg/e6o...8F4CC7999E5F74
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Old July 13th, 2014, 12:02 PM   #2869
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In time the proposed Ringeriksbanen, a high-speed rail connecting Sandvika with Hønefoss, could lead to major population growth in the Hønefoss area, I would assume a doubling. The Oslo area face significant population growth and Hønefoss would suddenly be in commute distance.

These New Hønefossians would need to go to the (Gardermoen) airport too, increasing the road traffic and the need to improve the roads. Jessheim has already doubled in size, and may be set to double once more. That would mean that this segment of E16 would connect two towns of 30-40k people and the national airport, which could also lead to more people living along this segment.
You may very well be right, but boosting satellites like Hønefoss or Jessheim is hardly a sound urban development ., and these people could easily fit in Oslo which is a low-density city. I wish that Norwegian media and politicians at some point would realize that railways also have undesirable side-effects.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 12:08 PM   #2870
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Are there plans to upgrade the former E16 south of Hønefoss? The stretch from Sandvika to near Sundvollen is a decent two-lane road (some passing lanes), except for the overburdened stretch near Sandvika, but around Sundvollen it is curvy and loaded.

Is the area north of Oslo protected land? It is funny how it is urbanized up into the forests, but then there's almost nothing (no roads, no subdivisions) until you reach E16 about 35 km farther north.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 01:26 PM   #2871
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Yes, there are plans for four lanes the whole way, but I would not hold my breath (a challenge for Google translate here: http://www.vegvesen.no/Europaveg/e16buskerud). Currently they are trying to coordinate with the railway plans. As far as I understand, this arm is still called E16, which is a bit confusing.

You are right, the forests around Oslo are protected for us skiers , with a rather arbitrary boundary set long time ago ;) Similar situation in Trondheim. However, it is from time to time debated whether these boundaries should be kept holy, as the result seems that farmland and satellite suburbs are developed instead. In Norway we have a lot more forest than farmland. The greens of course argue that densification is the solution, but practice is more complicated than theory here.

The huge protected areas around Oslo is shown in the map below. Quite recently, this particular protection was formalized in a specific law.


Similarly in Trondheim :

Note that in Trondheim, the forest boundary extend almost to the city center. Similar regulations exist for other cities, eg Drammen.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 02:36 PM   #2872
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You may very well be right, but boosting satellites like Hønefoss or Jessheim is hardly a sound urban development ., and these people could easily fit in Oslo which is a low-density city. I wish that Norwegian media and politicians at some point would realize that railways also have undesirable side-effects.
I think it is pretty good city planning. It's not as if everyone is going to live in Oslo (or Bergen or Trondheim), but Norway is still urbanising. Oslo had a population of 460,000 in 1991, it has a population of of 630,000 now, and the prognosis is 830,000 people in 2030. That is a fairly hefty population growth. The whole region is growing too, unevenly.

Oslo has three growth axes, west towards Drammen, South towards Ski, North-East towards Jessheim. The Ringerike line would open up a new, if minor, axis or branch towards North-West. Towns and cities along the axes grow significantly faster than towns outside the axes, in some cases faster than Oslo itself. This leads to lines with higher densities, better and faster communications, and the benefits and disadvantages thereof. Outside the axes we have more sparsely populated areas, with their adherent advantages and costs.

The line Lillestrøm to Jessheim used to be suburbia, and while particularly Lillestrøm is urbanising, the dominant impression is still dense suburban rather than urban, and that is fine too.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 02:55 PM   #2873
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The problem I have with these developments is that they create long commuting distances, and large area use. It is not by accident that the Akershus people drive longer than other Norwegians. If you isolate Northern Romerike (incl Jessheim) and similar far-out suburbs, I am pretty sure that the numbers would show an even larger difference to the rest of the country. Even if all the added commuting was by train, there would be an increase in energy use, which translates to CO2-emissions since we are and to a increasing degree are part of the European energy system.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 03:57 PM   #2874
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A couple of weeks back I made a comparison between Oslo and Stockholm, neither of which I think are doing it completely right, and neither of which I think are doing it completely wrong, but I think on the whole the Oslo (and Trondheim) approach is better.

People love living next to water, they hate living next to motorways and railroads, and they are mixed about living next to forest.

One consequence is high population density near the coast, and dwindling density towards the inland. Norway and Sweden got a lot of land and not many people, so most of the land is unpopulated or very thinly populated.

By designating some areas as nature reserve we get a concentration in the areas that are not reserves. (The Stockholm map shows the areas that are reserves, but not really land that is undeveloped, which in Stockholm is a lot, while it seems to be much less in Oslo and the vicinity, these days anyway.

If you travel in Stockholm nature and farmland gets in your way while travelling from where you are to where you want to be. You got built-up, then an empty field, then built-up, a field, a forest, and built-up again. Oslo has more forest, I believe, but it is less intrusive. It's like a big tumour you don't notice because your body has wrapped itself around it.

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Yes, it almost seems like the former suburbs now becoming a part of the city have operated by an anti-coast principle of their own. The old towns around Stockholm were sensibly near a coast, but these are tiny and dominated by villa housing. The post-war houses, especially the million projects, are big but hidden in geographical unattractive locations.

I am selling a flat in Oslo and am looking into finding on in Stockholm, so there is a trace of bitterness in the previous post... I think nature in the city is a major advantage, particularly the real version. Oslo and Stockholm have gone about it differently, I not saying that either version is right. This is Oslo:



Most of the city of Oslo is actually forest ("Marka"), the geographical centre is actually in the forest, with no construction and severe restrictions on vehicles (including for the most part bicycles), but otherwise accessible on foot or skis (assuming any snow). The biggest lake is the water supply for the city, with a couple more restrictions.

I didn't find the equivalent map for Stockholm, this one was the closest:



Thus Oslo is surrounded by massive forests while Stockholm has wedges into urban areas. This means that Stockholm woods are closer to the residents, while the forests in Oslo are a bit like the sea for many in Stockholm, a place you get to after half hour on the metro. The belt nearest to the boundary is clearly "urban recreational", but the further you venture the more wilderness it becomes. There are even a couple wolves roaming there, and 15 years ago or so, before the age of universal GPS, a boy scout troop managed to get lost there, inside the city of Oslo, for days. This is not the sort of things that would happen in Stockholm.

These nature reserves around have had fortuitous consequences. Populated Oslo looks a bit like a uterus, with three clear exits, to the West, the North-East, the South. As the city grows and get denser, public and private transport follow these three channels (public transport growing fast, private remains flat), reducing urban sprawl, inside Oslo anyway.

Last edited by :jax:; April 17th, 2015 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Replaced broken Oslomarka map with the one above
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Old July 13th, 2014, 07:45 PM   #2875
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Norway as a country is very sparsely populated. It has hundreds of mostly undisturbed forests and quiet fjords.

There is no need to fuss about losing a couple hundred hectares of forests in the south for development or going berserk over the amount of land taken over by paving new highway lanes. There is also no need to pack everyone up and high in central Oslo as if it were Hong Kong either (I'm not saying it shouldn't have high-rises, just that it shouldn't offer multi-family buildings as the only or primary options for city dwellers).
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Old July 13th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #2876
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Anyway, what's the point of making tolled city bypasses?
Especially, considering that the country is "extremely" rich with oil revenues, has very few people living in, has already one of the highest taxes in the world and the worldwide record for fuel price.
Does its inhabitants are masochists, or are they profoundly anti-car to accept such things?
Whilst the country is extremely rich many of it's cities and towns are very poor. As an an example of using the car to pay down city debts Molde, Ålesund and Krisriansund will all have toll rings by 2016, most locals blame this on Molde nearly bankrupting itself with a new cultural centre/library. Since they are in debt to building this they cannot fund roads which need to be funded, hence the tollring, to get it passed the other cities in the region Ålesund and Kristiansund also has to get tollrings, go Molde.

It does look like the govt will change the rules around vehicle taxation, I believe that after Christmas tax on new vehicles will have a CO2 component and will not be purely based on horsepower like today. This should mean vehicles will come down in price.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 10:32 PM   #2877
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The point with the toll rings is of course to reduce traffic in the cities.
That is only true if you live in a larger city with effective and efficient public transport, if you live somewhere like Ålesund, Molde or Kristiansund where public transport is almost nonexistent the tollrings are purely for financial gain as the citizens have no choice, they have to drive and will be punished for driving, whilst have no viable alternative to driving.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #2878
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Somebody mentioned the Larvik Hirshals ferry further back in the thread.

Just as a handy hint, if you buy tickets for Colorline use the .com website not the .no website, the tickets are cheaper on the .com site. Just another example of Norwegian business sticking it too Norwegians, but that's ok Norwegian's have lots of money, they can afford it.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #2879
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Whilst the country is extremely rich many of it's cities and towns are very poor. As an an example of using the car to pay down city debts Molde, Ålesund and Krisriansund will all have toll rings by 2016, most locals blame this on Molde nearly bankrupting itself with a new cultural centre/library. Since they are in debt to building this they cannot fund roads which need to be funded, hence the tollring, to get it passed the other cities in the region Ålesund and Kristiansund also has to get tollrings, go Molde.
Are the national roads - which I assume ring roads to be part of it - founded by municipalities instead of the national state in Norway?


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public transport is almost nonexistent the tollrings are purely for financial gain as the citizens have no choice, they have to drive and will be punished for driving, whilst have no viable alternative to driving.
Yet, is there no major opposition, nor petitions or demonstrations for this very unfair matter of fact?

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but that's ok Norwegian's have lots of money, they can afford it.
Well, Living in Switzerland, which is considered to be the highest income country in the world, I must say that cost of living is similar, or even higher in Norway. But, purchasing power is on average higher in Switzerland. That's due to the fact that your country taxes heavily its inhabitants, so at the end they have available around half of their gross income, which gives an average net income comparable to that of Denmark - another "welfare state", but with lower cost of living.
IMHO, they are not that rich on average when taking into consideration cost of living, taxes, plus "unique" system of tolls for so small cities (by international comparison).
Deviating a little off topic, I have question:
Is the health care system totally free for residents/citizens (that's mean you don't have to pay anything when visiting a doctor)?
Are they lots of people on welfare?
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Old July 15th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #2880
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Deviating a little off topic, I have question:
Is the health care system totally free for residents/citizens (that's mean you don't have to pay anything when visiting a doctor)?
Are they lots of people on welfare?
No, you pay an own contribution of about 100-200 NOK for a consultation. Often a bit more when going to a specialist at the hospital e.g. However, after you've spent a predetermined amount (don't know the exact amount) on public health expenses, your next "visits" are free.
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