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Old September 6th, 2015, 10:24 PM   #3401
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Most motorways in Norway is in southern part of southern Norway, not significantly further north than eg Stockholm when it comes to sunlight.
No, but I guess you missed the point. Stockholm is almost as far south as Fredrikstad, Göteborg is beside Skagen the tip of Denmark.
And besides the Stockholm metro, the (south)west coast and the south of Sweden are the biggest population centers.
On the other side (to the north), Trondheim area is among the dense populated regions of Norway, and Trondheim is on the same degree N as Nordmaling a bit south of Umeå - the Trondheim area could also be said to stretch north of Umeå..

I must say I don't see how what I wrote, where I was talking about the population centers (or concentrations of population), is wrong. Actually Norway is a little more "northern" than Sweden, it's plainly visible on a map.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 10:38 PM   #3402
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post

Even in Norway the use of traditional street lights is quite costly ( I have heard up to 100 kNOK ~= 11 k€ per km per year), although the energy use is decreasing with the improved LED technology.
In Finland, the investments are about 85 per cent of the total life cycle cost, maintenance 10 per cent, and energy 5 per cent. I believe Norway is not significantly different. Thus, conversion from the traditional bulbs will have only a minor cost impact, while the energy saving might be 50 per cent or more.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 06:51 PM   #3403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomPunk View Post
No, but I guess you missed the point. Stockholm is almost as far south as Fredrikstad, Göteborg is beside Skagen the tip of Denmark.
And besides the Stockholm metro, the (south)west coast and the south of Sweden are the biggest population centers.
On the other side (to the north), Trondheim area is among the dense populated regions of Norway, and Trondheim is on the same degree N as Nordmaling a bit south of Umeå - the Trondheim area could also be said to stretch north of Umeå..

I must say I don't see how what I wrote, where I was talking about the population centers (or concentrations of population), is wrong. Actually Norway is a little more "northern" than Sweden, it's plainly visible on a map.
Calm down, I did not say that you were wrong, I was talking about where the motorways were located whereas you are discussing population centers. To this day the Trondheim area does not have any motorways, only expressways (mototrafikkveg), which does not have the same requirements in the regulations. The northernmost motorway of Norway ends at E6 Kolomoen (60.7° N). Compare this with Sweden, where the continous motorway network ends at E4 Gävle (also 60.7° N). but there are also sections of motorways further north: Around Sundsvall ending in Timrå(35 km, 62.5° N) and even Piteå–Bertnäs (6 km, 65.4 ° N). There are plans for relative short motorway sections also around Trondheim (63.4° N), but the main motorway network unfortunately will not strech significantly further north in Norway than Sweden in the foreseeable future, rather the opposite. Most likely there will be a Stockholm-Sundsvall motorway long before the main Norwegian network will reach a similar latitude.

In any case I do not agree that higher latitude is an argument for more street lights, as I argued in my previous post.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
In Finland, the investments are about 85 per cent of the total life cycle cost, maintenance 10 per cent, and energy 5 per cent. I believe Norway is not significantly different. Thus, conversion from the traditional bulbs will have only a minor cost impact, while the energy saving might be 50 per cent or more.
Interesting, but conversion of existing street lights is a different discussion, where energy savings should be an objective in itself. I would imagine, however, that the solution on the E6 section I showed is significantly cheaper in investments than traditional street lights using poles, although I understand that in that particular case they have prepared the electric infrastructure for later conversion to full street lights since it was a trial.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 06:34 PM   #3404
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E6 from Oslo to Gardermoen used to be without streetlights, but they were added when the road got raised the speed limit from 90 to 100.

When we are on the subject of speed limits, it's a pleasant surprice(for me) to learn that a section of new E39 in Sør Trøndelag to get 90:



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Old September 8th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #3405
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Rv 555 Sotrasambandet

Visualization of Sotrasambandet near Bergen (in Norwegian).


Statens vegvesen - Rv. 555 Sotrasambandet. Animasjon av framlegg til reguleringsplan. by Vegvesenet
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Old September 9th, 2015, 02:01 AM   #3406
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In the "konsekvensutredningsfase" it was supposed that Sotrasambandet got hard sholders of 3 meters, even though H7-standard, probably due to high traffic amount. Now they ended up with 1,5 m in the regulation plan. Typically
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Old September 9th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #3407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjørne View Post
Without knowing for certain, I'd say it's because of all the dense forests and risk of hitting wild animals. Well-lit highways may prevent serious injury as you see the hazard sooner.
Except some kommunes are cheap like Molde, they don't turn on all there street lights, on the road to Aukra they are hardly ever on, as soon as you get to Aukra kommune the street lights are always on. Go figure?????
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Old September 10th, 2015, 08:21 PM   #3408
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Dawn and dusk are the most tricky and challenging times for the human eye as it transitions while the ground is dark but the sky is clear. Thus, danger
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Old September 10th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #3409
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Long twilight periods are common in northern latitudes, winter or summer
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Old September 13th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #3410
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Most light on fast roads are really annoying with the constant expanding and contracting of the lens.
All the busy sections in Scania is dark and it works fine, but when you drive in metro 08 or GBG its much worse with the uneven light distribution.

CPH also have lights on some sections but it's in continuing rows hanging on cables, the light is even and weaker then in Sweden.
Keep it dark is best in the end.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 11:56 PM   #3411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Long twilight periods are common in northern latitudes, winter or summer
The most problematic twilight period is about the time of Nautical Twilight, i.e. the period when the center of the Sun lies 6...12 degrees. The duration of this period can be approximated by the formula

t = 24 minutes/sqrt(1-(sin Lat/cos Dec)^2)

where Lat is the latitude of the observer and Dec is the declination of the sun. For example, the declination today evening was about +3 degrees 43 minutes. The duration of the twilight at the northern latitudes 70, 60, and 50 was 71, 48, and 37 minutes respectively.

The formula is not valid close to solstices, as the Sun's altitude to time curve is far from being linear across the twilight time.

For instance, at December 13th 2015, the duration of the twilight at the same latitudes will be 106, 56, and 42 minutes, respectively. (Sun declination -23 degrees 8 minutes).

However, the decisions on whether to illuminate is far more complex than the duration of darkness and twilight. The typical factors are traffic density, road geometry, accident history, availability of money, and cultural ones. In my opinion, those non-illuminated almost-urban roads around London are scary. In most cases, such roads would be illuminated in the Nordic countries.

I do not quite understand the reasoning to 'illuminate' the E6 north of Oslo by 1 watt led lamps at the median strip. Reflective poles would be almost equal, but much cheaper.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 12:04 AM   #3412
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Reflective poles are not equal in heavy snow/rain/fog situation.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 12:21 AM   #3413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Reflective poles are not equal in heavy snow/rain/fog situation.
I would say they are, or they are even better. Their reflective area is vertical, and it does not get covered very easily. Good reflection material gives a reasonable response even in adverse conditions. A LED lamp does not create warm heat enough to melt the snow and ice around it. (This the reason why LED-equipped traffic lights in the arctic areas need a warming grid to keep them visible.)
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Old September 14th, 2015, 04:19 AM   #3414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Most light on fast roads are really annoying with the constant expanding and contracting of the lens.
All the busy sections in Scania is dark and it works fine, but when you drive in metro 08 or GBG its much worse with the uneven light distribution.

CPH also have lights on some sections but it's in continuing rows hanging on cables, the light is even and weaker then in Sweden.
Keep it dark is best in the end.
I guess that depends on what you're used to then. Driving highways in Sweden I always find it enoying that when you finally get som dark vision, a car with four full headlights com at you, and then you're blind again. Especially thinking of the moose hazard, no lights on roads with continous traffic is very unsafe.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #3415
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Driving through Øksnes (Norway) from Myre to Høydal 5.09.2015 Timelapse x4

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Old September 15th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #3416
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Rv. 509 Tananger / Stavanger

The single carriageway segment of riksvei 509 west of Stavanger will be upgraded to a dual carriageway. It includes two interchanges and some roundabouts. The bridge across the Hafrsfjord will also be replaced.





Tananger Ring (southern interchange)


Kontinentalsvegen interchange.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 10:35 PM   #3417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The single carriageway segment of riksvei 509 west of Stavanger will be upgraded to a dual carriageway. It includes two interchanges and some roundabouts. The bridge across the Hafrsfjord will also be replaced.





Tananger Ring (southern interchange)


Kontinentalsvegen interchange.

But since two of four lanes is supposed to be bus-lanes, there will probably be ques in the left lanes from day

If politicians really want to reduce the use of cars, they should really forbid it in some way instead of putting up tolls, where car-owners only pays for the constructon of mega-expensive bus-lanes. As if everyone is driving around just for fun. I understand the point inside city-centres, but on sections like this, far from downtown Stavanger, and like the new Sotrasambandet, 10 km from downtown Bergen it`s really redicolous. Especially when it`s on the national road-network! On this particular section you`re actually able to pass if someone is driving slow in front of you today, and traffic allows it. That won`t be possible with a median.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 10:55 PM   #3418
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You can always pass on the right unless you drive some sort of fossil-fuel vehicle.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 12:04 AM   #3419
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You can always pass on the right unless you drive some sort of fossil-fuel vehicle.
Damn city politicians tend to forget a lot of people don't live in cities with access to PT.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 12:59 AM   #3420
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But since two of four lanes is supposed to be bus-lanes, there will probably be ques in the left lanes from day
I think those aren't just going to be bus lanes, but 'bus + truck' lanes. The 'Transportkorridor vest' is supposed to let trucks travel north-south without them entering downtown Stavanger. http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter...rtkorridorvest
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