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Old January 25th, 2016, 04:34 PM   #3541
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Thanks for the suggestion.

Your plan actually looks good. I would add the Atlantic road to it though.
But you have around 2500 km there, doing that in 10 days with no motorways, maybe not so easy .
An alternative to it would be to pay a little more, leave the car for example in Kristianshund or Alesund, and fly back to Oslo. That would save around 900 km driving...
The one-way rental may turn rather expensive.

Things are not black-and white: There are (rather) good roads in Norway, too. The itinerary may be based on a few quick drives, thus making it possible to make a moderate trip within a moderate timescale. For example, the 400 km return trip from Trollstigen to Oslo Airport can be made in about 6-7 hours. Typically, the roads over highlands ('vidda' in Norwegian) are quite fast compared to those cliffhanger-class hairpin roads at the outer edges of the mountains.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 11:36 AM   #3542
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Ryfylke Tunnel progress:
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Old January 27th, 2016, 12:37 PM   #3543
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I want to drive to Nordkap and Kirkenes, than back via Sweden or Filand+ferry. I need time for that, though, even driving straight ahead to Kirkenes via Sweden takes 3100km, which, to become not very tiresome, require 3 1/2 days of driving. And then some other 10-12 days to explore Norway, such as the Northern cities, the coastal Rv17 road, and the fjords in the center of the country, plus 2 days to drive home, so it is a 3-week trip (and an expensive one, hotels in the Northern cities are expensive, in some places even during winter (Hammerfest or Honningsvág) as I checked (though I'd obviously not go on a driving trip to the Arctic in winter).
The best (and probably the cheapest) way to do a such trip would be to rent a RV, you don't have to worry where to sleep and you can easily change your plan.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:11 PM   #3544
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E6 Hålogaland Bridge

The first pylon of the Hålogaland Bridge of E6 north of Narvik has been topped out at 174 meters. The northern pylon will be topped out by Easter at 167 m.

The pylons will measure 179.1 m and 173.5 m when everything is installed.

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Old January 27th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #3545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Ryfylke Tunnel progress:
When is it planned to be finished?
From what I read the tunnel is part of the Ryfast project which also includes Hundvågtunnel (5500 meters). I read about 2019 everything including some access tunnels, but I guess the 2 tunnels can function independent of each other.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 01:01 AM   #3546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The best (and probably the cheapest) way to do a such trip would be to rent a RV, you don't have to worry where to sleep and you can easily change your plan.
Except that some of the most scenic roads are really winding, narrow, and/or steep and hence are not suitable for RVs, and the choice will be a source of frustration for the vacationer and potential hate object among fellow motorists. Another disadvantage is that you could be somewhat detached from the local people. There are other ways of being flexible when traveling in Norway and Sweden, potentially to even lower costs. With what you save on RV rental and fuel you can probably easily afford to rent eg cabins at camping sites or other low-cost accommodation. If you are really on a shoestring, bring a tent, which you in Norway and Sweden are allowed to put up almost anywhere.

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; January 28th, 2016 at 01:10 AM.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 12:42 PM   #3547
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Hurricane-force winds at the Måløy Bridge in western Norway. 43 m/s is the equivalent of a category 2 hurricane, but I don't know if it's a gust or sustained winds.

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Old January 31st, 2016, 10:28 PM   #3548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The one-way rental may turn rather expensive.

Things are not black-and white: There are (rather) good roads in Norway, too. The itinerary may be based on a few quick drives, thus making it possible to make a moderate trip within a moderate timescale. For example, the 400 km return trip from Trollstigen to Oslo Airport can be made in about 6-7 hours. Typically, the roads over highlands ('vidda' in Norwegian) are quite fast compared to those cliffhanger-class hairpin roads at the outer edges of the mountains.
Gardermoen to Trollstigen return in 6-7 hours, who are you trying to kid? The shortest route is using the E6, it's a 6 hour drive there, then you'll stop at the top for a coffee and cake for at least and hour, then a 6-7 hour drive back.

The roads over the mountains are not quick, they are generally narrow, tight and not made for travelling fast on.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 01:10 AM   #3549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
Gardermoen to Trollstigen return in 6-7 hours, who are you trying to kid? The shortest route is using the E6, it's a 6 hour drive there, then you'll stop at the top for a coffee and cake for at least and hour, then a 6-7 hour drive back.

The roads over the mountains are not quick, they are generally narrow, tight and not made for travelling fast on.
This is a linguistic issue. Return trip is "coming back from wherever they are to the starting point", and its Finnish counterpart "paluumatka" is used exclusively in this meaning; but in English it is apparently also used for "going from the starting point to some other point and then coming back".

There was an idea about renting a car in Gardermoen, doing some days' sightseeing in the fjords from Bergen to Trollstigen, and then making the "return" straight to Gardermoen. In other words, the word "return" discussed here refers to a one way journey, which you and MattiG apparently agree to take 6-7 hours.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 01:57 AM   #3550
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Yes a return trip is going and coming.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 02:06 PM   #3551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Hurricane-force winds at the Måløy Bridge in western Norway. 43 m/s is the equivalent of a category 2 hurricane, but I don't know if it's a gust or sustained winds.

It could be sustained actually. Kråkenes not too far away measured 48.9 m/s, which is the strongest sustained wind ever officially recorded. It should be said that physical wind measurements like this have not been going on for a very long time, and they are still sometimes knocked out if the wind is too strong. Kråkenes was for instance not yet in operation when the infamour new years eve storm hit Norway January 1st 1992.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 03:56 PM   #3552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
Gardermoen to Trollstigen return in 6-7 hours, who are you trying to kid? The shortest route is using the E6, it's a 6 hour drive there, then you'll stop at the top for a coffee and cake for at least and hour, then a 6-7 hour drive back.

The roads over the mountains are not quick, they are generally narrow, tight and not made for travelling fast on.
The comment was related to an earlier itinerary, not to a trip Oslo-Trollstigen-Oslo. Please read the whole thread.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 05:27 PM   #3553
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Bergen congestion charge

A variable congestion charge was introduced in Bergen today. Up until yesterday, the toll was 25 NOK throughout the day. Starting today, it is 45 NOK during rush hour and 19 NOK outside rush hour. Unlike for example the Swedish congestion charge, there is no intermediate tolling period, at 6:30 a.m. the toll goes up from 19 to 45 NOK and goes down to 19 again at 9.00 a.m.

19 NOK = € 2.00
45 NOK = € 4.75

Tolling is inbound only.

http://www.bomringenbergen.no/2016/0...nger-i-bergen/

NRK reports that the higher charge will likely have little effect on traffic: http://www.nrk.no/hordaland/koprisin...for-1.12780354
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Old February 1st, 2016, 09:25 PM   #3554
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Traffic today compared to last monday:

Tid Mandag 25. januar Mandag 1. februar Differanse
0600-0615 995 1262 +26,83%
0615-0630 1699 2598 +52,91%
0630-0645 2677 2056 -23%
0645-0700 3116 2517 -19,22%
0700-0715 3061 2773 -9,41%

Some cars waiting by the tollpoint few minutes untill 09:00:


http://www.nrk.no/hordaland/her-vent...gen-1.12781235
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 01:41 AM   #3555
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Trondheim has had variable rates for years. In a few weeks the few that bother will mostly wait at home instead.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:34 PM   #3556
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If I understand correctly, the city of Oslo wants to ban diesel cars from municipal roads in the winter, effective immediately. According to the girl in charge, there are acute health problems. Is air quality really that bad? They make it sound like it is like in Mexico City or Tehran... How are they going to enforce this?

http://www.nrk.no/ostlandssendingen/...ter-1.12786016
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 08:07 PM   #3557
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"The girl in charge" (...)

This ban will only be effective on days with extreme pollution.
They will give the police and the road authority the task to enforce this, but the most effective measure will be ban all municipal road-side parking.
And yes, it really is extremely bad. Because of the low temperature, pollution collects in the so-called Oslo bowl and doesn't blow away. To put it simply.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:12 PM   #3558
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I`m not exactly an expert when it comes to particle-chemistry, but I`m asking myself whenever I hear a "researchers" make a statement in the papers saying it`s life-threatening to walk outside now (have read that a couple of times this winter). Is the air in cities like Oslo and Bergen more polluted than 30-40 years back? Yes, the traffic was less, but the vehicles then consumed more gas and emissions were released directly from the engine, the main road-network also consisted much more of streets and low-capasity roads those days. Also, there were a lot more heating by oil and wood those days in addition to industry.

I know it`s political uncorrect to talk agaings these things, but I`m getting the feeling that some people wants to prove a point, and a lot of people swallow what they`re saying uncritical. But then again, does always "political correct" walk hand in hand with common sense? Having said that, I`m all for making the quality of the air and environment better, but things take time. I`m not supporting turning the everyday of a lot of people on the head overnight without having good alternatives. "The girl i charge" is in my opinion thinking that everything is just as easy as living on Grünerløkka everywhere, and tries to make the world turn after that.

One can also ask themselves; is the Økern intersection and the Hjortneskaia (E18 and the Kiel-ferry on idling at the port half the day) and Danmarks plan the right places to put up the gear to measure pollution?
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Old February 4th, 2016, 01:40 AM   #3559
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or Elgeseter gate in Trondheim.
Right next to the most congested streets of Norway. Even then Norwegian cities are not exactly the worst in the world

This particular graph on particles in air was showing Oslo compared to typical holiday cities for Norwegians ( so no Persian capital, and Cairo would be off the list today ..). Personally I am convinced that generally the biggest source of pollution in Norwegian residential areas are from wood stoves and oil fired heaters, but almost always the level of pollution is below the EU limit except those few stations right next to heavily trafficated roads. Of course some cold days can be significantly worse than average, but on such days people with respiratory problems tend and should stay mostly inside anyway. (Personally I mostly move within the city by bike, so a ban would not affect me much)

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; February 4th, 2016 at 01:52 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:54 AM   #3560
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The issue is that the understanding of the effects of pollutants in the body has changed a lot. Today, we speak of discernible impact on life expectancy (statistically significantly different than zero) of certain form of air (or water, for that matter) pollution.

In the past, society just accepted that some years taken off overall life expectancy was entirely accepted as a price of an industrialized society. The links between certain forms of pollution (such as unfiltered coal ash that plagued European cities all over the place well into the 1950s) and some life-ending or crippling chronic diseases has been known since the 1920s in some cases, but people accepted that as a fact of life.

That has obviously change and I can't say it is for the worse!

Moreover, there is a secondary effect: people know live substantially longer than before. This means certain forms of pollution have 2 extra decades to build up in the body and shorten life, especially carcinogenic agents.

I know many scientists have terrible layman communication skills, but when a biohazard researcher, a serious one not keen on pushing some agenda or other, says something is a threat to life, what he or she means is that exposure to a given form substance at a certain level has the potential to produce, over the course of a lifetime, an impact on life expectancy different than zero (again, using the probabilistic definition with some confidence interval).

Certain pollutants are still tolerated because there is no feasible way to completely eliminate them (ozone pollution for instance), but others are on the way out.

If anything, I think this might give a necessary push to "electrify" the European car fleet sooner rather than later. As it often happens, broad technological shifts don't happen linearly, but on an S-shaped form. The marginal costs of building electrical cars has been plummeting fast, the only reason they are still expensive is because they are geared towards the high-end of the market and there is not much widespread charging infrastructure - yet.

Once the charging infrastructure problem is tackled, I'm sure cheap electrical cars will come around and, once the effects on pollution are known, there will be political pressure to bring them fast (I'm thinking of something like a total ban on sale of new non-electrical cars as soon as 2022-24 and phasing out gas-powered vehicles completely by 2040, sooner in urban areas).
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