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Old June 19th, 2016, 11:21 AM   #3841
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
The language of the Finns and the "Lapps" (sami) are closely related, though.
Related. Not closely related.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #3842
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Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Enova has the goal that by 1/11-17, there will atleast one fast-charger location per 50km in the national roads. Rv7 already covered - E16 will be ready this year.
How's the general perception of the performance of electric cars during winter or on mountain driving?

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Another thing, in Scandinavian countries, an adventure traveller can plant its tent anywhere on public land and sleep there. This is illegal in central-southern Europe.
But then you have to deal with increased wildlife risks, Norway is range for both black bears and wolverines.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 12:21 PM   #3843
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The 3 kilometer long Jordal Tunnel opened to traffic yesterday near Voss. It connects some outlying houses with a total population of 40, just off E16. It replaces a dangerous and narrow road that was prone to landslides and avalanches. It has cost 320 million NOK (€ 34 million). It was also built for a small hydropower plant in the river. It is a spiral tunnel according to Open Street Map.


https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/40-innb...ner-1.13004509
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Old June 19th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #3844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Another thing, in Scandinavian countries, an adventure traveller can plant its tent anywhere on public land and sleep there. This is illegal in central-southern Europe.
In fact, the land does not even have to be public, as long as you are not on a farmed/built up area and some distance away from the nearest house. Parking is a different story, however. These laws were made for traveling before cars, and nowadays make Norway /Sweden a perfect area for hiking. You are allowed to pick berries and mushrooms too, btw.


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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, Gulf Stream extends as far N-E as Longyearbyen and Murmansk. In winter there's more ice in the Baltic Sea at 55-60°N (they even drive across ice between mainland Estonia and islands), than in the Barents Sea at 70°N (Murmansk it's strategic to Russia because it's a year-round port and Kirkeness has regular passenger service).
True, but the Baltic Sea is also rather shallow with very low salinity.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Norway had 118 fatalities in 2015, a rate of 24 per 1 million inhabitants - the lowest rate in the world.

https://www.nrk.no/norge/norge-har-f...ker-1.12891929

UN / WHO figures seems off.
Depends on reference year, I guess. We are talking about relatively low figures that vary significantly from year to year.
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From this it follows that road improvements that create more traffic would result in a regression towards the global (or at least Scandinavian) mean for Norwegian road safety ... simply because more traffic = more accidents, and more traffic on the motorways = more last-mile traffic = more accidents.

This puts Norway in rather a strange spot, does it not?
Norway is also low on the statistics for fatalities per driven km, although not all countries are recording that number. Regardless, more motorways and other divided highways would undoubtedly reduce fatality numbers further.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Related. Not closely related.
But in the minds of the Norse who were the originators of these names, Finns and Sami were the same. You also have Lappland in Sweden, btw. At least in Norway, the "Lapp" term is seen as derogatory and unacceptable and has generally been out of use for several decades, almost in the same class as "******" (funny, I wrote the Ni**** insulting word for a dark skinned person of African origin, but there is apparently a filter in place)
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; June 19th, 2016 at 10:32 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 12:50 PM   #3845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The 3 kilometer long Jordal Tunnel opened to traffic yesterday near Voss. It connects some outlying houses with a total population of 40, just off E16. It replaces a dangerous and narrow road that was prone to landslides and avalanches. It has cost 320 million NOK (€ 34 million). It was also built for a small hydropower plant in the river. It is a spiral tunnel according to Open Street Map.


https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/40-innb...ner-1.13004509
Was it built for the sake of the houses, or was it a tunnel serving the hydro power plant that incidentally served the houses? Will the population of the hamlet grow to couple hundreds with better access?
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Old June 19th, 2016, 01:31 PM   #3846
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At least you can forget about hundreds of people moving in. Maybe a couple of hundred cabins....
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How's the general perception of the performance of electric cars during winter or on mountain driving?



But then you have to deal with increased wildlife risks, Norway is range for both black bears and wolverines.
Performance of electric cars go a bit down, but not catastrophically. Check out Tesla Bjørn on YouTube.

The threat of carnivores to humans on the Norwegian mainland is almost non-existent. We do not have black bears. The larger brown bear can only be found in certain forested areas, in particular in north/easternmost Trøndelag and eastern Finnmark. It has been several decades/century since the last fatality, though. In Sweden there are larger areas with brown bear, but as far as I know, all episodes have involved hunters with dog. Wolverines, wolves, lynx and eagles are very shy, and pose no threat to humans. The large carnivores represent a hot political issue in Norway, though, as they are on the rise, and pretty much incompatible with traditional Norwegian farming where the livestock roams unattended in the wild throughout the summer.

Bear on a highway on the border between Norway (northernmost Trøndelag) and Sweden.

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; June 19th, 2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 02:07 PM   #3847
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Performance of electric cars go a bit down, but not catastrophically. Check out Tesla Bjørn on YouTube.
I have two electric cars. I have a cheap Citroën and an expensive Tesla. The Citroën is basicly half the range, half the charge speed and doesn't get properly warm in below -10. I certainly wouldn't go on a longer trip with it during winter. The Tesla meanwhile i would take anywhere anytime just for a joyride.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The 3 kilometer long Jordal Tunnel opened to traffic yesterday near Voss
This road used to be so special, i have taken foreign tourists there as a novelty attraction
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Old June 19th, 2016, 02:38 PM   #3848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
I have two electric cars. I have a cheap Citroën and an expensive Tesla. The Citroën is basicly half the range, half the charge speed and doesn't get properly warm in below -10. I certainly wouldn't go on a longer trip with it during winter. The Tesla meanwhile i would take anywhere anytime just for a joyride.
Only Teslas in my street ;-)
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Old June 19th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #3849
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There indeed is a Finnish-speaking minority in Finnmark, although they call themselves as well as their language Kven.

Here is an example, a trilingual sign in Norwegian, Kven/Finnish and Northern Sámi. (The meaning of the name is "gun river"). The relationship between Kven/Finnish and Northern Sámi can be seen, but they are not mutually intelligible. Finnish and Kven on the other hand are easily intelligible, indeed so much that Kven is considered a dialect by Finnish linguistics.

https://www.google.fi/maps/@70.30859...7i13312!8i6656
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Old June 19th, 2016, 02:56 PM   #3850
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where exactly is the road this tunnel will replace located?
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Old June 19th, 2016, 03:16 PM   #3851
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http://kart.gulesider.no/m/QMvrA
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There indeed is a Finnish-speaking minority in Finnmark, although they call themselves as well as their language Kven.
Yes, but these arrived around 1500 (i.e. "only" 500 years ago). The "Finn" in Finnmark is due to the Sami population which has a much longer presence.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 03:25 PM   #3852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The 3 kilometer long Jordal Tunnel opened to traffic yesterday near Voss. It connects some outlying houses with a total population of 40, just off E16. It replaces a dangerous and narrow road that was prone to landslides and avalanches. It has cost 320 million NOK (€ 34 million).
Amazing. The tunnel costed 320 million NOK for a village of 40 people. That is 8 million NOK per person in Jordalen.
https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/endelig...len-1.12946538

Is this a national record in Norway for a road with so much costs per person?
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Old June 19th, 2016, 04:27 PM   #3853
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E18 Mysen / Askim

E18 is an expressway and motorway that passes by Mysen and Askim, east of Oslo. It was built relatively recently, with the Askim bypass opening in 2005 and other segments in 2010-2014. The motorway is currently being extended west for a few kilometers, and the segment near Ørje is also being upgraded to a higher standard road.

Some photos of E18:

1. The first segment of E18 is a super two expressway, it turns into four lanes after this short tunnel.

E18-2 by European Roads, on Flickr

2.

E18-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

3.

E18-6 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. The motorway starts near Mysen.

E18-10 by European Roads, on Flickr

5.

E18-11 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. The exits along E18 are not numbered on the signage, but some sources indicate exits in the 90-range in this area.

E18-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. Of course, we're in Norway. Pay up!

E18-14 by European Roads, on Flickr

8. Automatic tolls in Norway generally look like this.

E18-16 by European Roads, on Flickr

9.

E18-18 by European Roads, on Flickr

10.

E18-22 by European Roads, on Flickr

11. Exits are also named like in Sweden, sometimes after very unimportant localities, some aren't found on a map.

E18-24 by European Roads, on Flickr

12. Askimporten, the longest tunnel on E18 east of Oslo.

E18-26 by European Roads, on Flickr

13. The bridge across the Glomma River, opened in 2010.

E18-27 by European Roads, on Flickr

14. The motorway ends here, it is being extended by approximately 6 km.

E18-28 by European Roads, on Flickr
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Old June 19th, 2016, 05:00 PM   #3854
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That single-tube tunnel is too small for a future motorway and ridiculously large for one side of one...
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Old June 19th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #3855
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On Teslas during winter:

This guy actualy won a model X from Tesla, officially at least because he was the best performer in a campaign for recruting new Tesla owners.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 06:35 PM   #3856
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Riksvei 5

I also filmed a stretch of Riksvei 5 from Sogndal to Fjærland. A very scenic route.

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Old June 19th, 2016, 08:18 PM   #3857
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I drove past Trondheim Friday last week. It has to be the most insane traffic situation I have encountered this far north. First there was a queue several kilometres northbound on E6 towards Stjørdal going snail pace. The city centre bypass was busy, but fine. Then south of Sluppen the queue started. It took me 30 minutes to get from there to the roundabout with E39 at Klett, which is a stretch of 10km. Yes there were roadworks, but no activity on the actual road, no lanes were closed and only a short strech was 50km/h.

Why it has taken until now to upgrade this road is beyond me.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 08:48 PM   #3858
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Now you know why I have been complaining all these years. Even now, Tiller-Klett will not be a full motorway, but four lanes with 80 km/h due to budget cuts, and the cars from E39 will have to pass a roundabout at Klett. With regards to E6 Trondheim-Stjørdal, the solution plannet to be built at some point in the future will be as winding as the current road, and with narrow shoulders, so even with four lanes it will only be 90 km/h. The only motorway which is planned in detail in Trøndelag as of now is E6 Klett-Støren.
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Old June 19th, 2016, 09:55 PM   #3859
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New "metrobuss" stop on the road between Moss and Son, rather unpractical, no?



New logo for fast-charging from motorway:
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Old June 19th, 2016, 10:13 PM   #3860
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New "metrobuss" stop on the road between Moss and Son, rather unpractical, no?

Ugh, that is bad. Transit specialists sometimes like this design (bus stops in the lane, curb is raised to allow floor boarding) because it gives the bus priority (no waiting to rejoin traffic) and automatically makes car travel "no faster than the bus, incentivizing people to get out of their cars in first place".

To use it on a rural road is odd and inefficient.
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