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Old June 25th, 2016, 11:15 AM   #3941
berlinwroclaw
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I am sure that for each four competing choices (Oslo-Bergen over E134, Rv7 and E16, and Oslo-Trondheim) there will be calculations showing the best score.
Did you read all posts of last weeks? For you a summary about the main arguments:
Straight line air distance Bergen-Oslo = 305.08 km. Look at the map and you will decide that Rv7 or E16 can never be shorter than the planned E134 with 380 km. Consider the fact that the E134 also attracts traffic from Stavanger, the third urban in Norway.



Therefore the netto social benefit of the new E134 is superior over all other alternatives. This has been calculated by Multiconsult and Norconsult, respected consulting companies, widely used by Road Administration and other government agencies.



You are invited to come with an alternative netto social benefit study for your favorite alternative.

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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
In addition, the C/B ratio in only one input item to the decision making. In every country such investments are agreed at the political layer. The politicians might even just ignore the C/B calculations
It becomes critical for Norway when oil is over in 2040. Competive export connections will be necessary to survive. A government will think twice to neglect the advice of competive infrastructure as we can see over all Europe.
You are invited to come with a similar example of a government who rejected such an advice.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 11:29 AM   #3942
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Okay, but this has been discussed over and over again in the last number of pages.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #3943
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Did you read all posts of last weeks.
You mean that opinions turn into facts by repeating the same arguments endlessly?

I believe that the priorities over corridors are decided at the national level in multiple dimensions, not at the regional level based on a few characteristics.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #3944
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I believe that the priorities over corridors are decided at the national level in multiple dimensions, not at the regional level based on a few characteristics.
ad:

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
but this has been discussed over and over again in the last number of pages.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #3945
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Fylkesvei 55, Sognefjellet

Some photos of the first half of Fv. 55 (County Road 55) across Sognefjellet.

1. This sign just outside Lom indicated a 2 hour waiting time due to roadworks (blasting). Unlike many countries, you can't just take an alternate route. The best option is to wait.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-1 by European Roads, on Flickr

2.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-2 by European Roads, on Flickr

3.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-3 by European Roads, on Flickr

4.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-4 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. We could drive on after 1.5 hours of waiting. Some clouds have moved in during that time.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. It's interesting how quickly you'll get above the tree line in Norway.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-6 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. An unpaved toll road extends into this valley.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-7 by European Roads, on Flickr

8.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-8 by European Roads, on Flickr

9.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-9 by European Roads, on Flickr

10. A small bridge was closed, they built a temporary bridge besides it.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-10 by European Roads, on Flickr

11.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-11 by European Roads, on Flickr

12. There is some significant snow cover at altitudes over 1,000 m in June.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-12 by European Roads, on Flickr

13. View over Jotunheimen, the mountain range that contains most of Norway's 2000+ meter mountains.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

14.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-14 by European Roads, on Flickr

15.

Fylkesvei 55 Sognefjellet-15 by European Roads, on Flickr
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Old June 25th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #3946
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Admittedly, there was a lack of touristic infrastructure until not many years ago. There has been done some efforts to be able to deal with the increasing number of tourists (Viewpoints, rest areas etc.) But still, I hope that Norway will never become "European Standard" by means of tourism.
In summer, Geiranger has about 5000 visitors daily. Not much for a world attraction. In winter it is too quiet. Roads are blocked because of the snow and avalanches. There is indeed a lack of touristic infrastructure.



Therefore the village wants year-round tourism. So, a new tunnel has been proposed by the Geiranger municipality. Improvements of road 15 to Geiranger are already under construction. http://www.sunnmoringen.no/frapapir/...g-12275950.ece
The new tunnel to Geiranger will be created including a tunnel with cross-solving to connect with road 15.



The new tunnel will made it possible to invite all days of the year tourists to Norway’s number one tourist attraction, the Geirangerfjord with the Seven Sisters….. and it will be a long way to go until Geiranger is at "European Standard" by means of tourism.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 11:28 PM   #3947
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Agree. Most tourists visiting Norway are interested in scenic views, not motorways. As a rule of thumb, the more windy and narrow the road is the better tourist experience it provides. For example, the most interesting parts on E134 are those old roads in Dysrkar and Seljestad not being E134, and bypassing the long tunnels.
Exactly. Haven't been in Norway yet, but those are the kind of roads I often prefer when on vacation elsewhere (Switzerland, Italy, Portugal, Spain etc).
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Old June 26th, 2016, 11:37 AM   #3948
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Haven't been in Norway yet
Do you plan to go to Norway? Which destinations do you want to visit? All by car?
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Old June 26th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #3949
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Not this year I'm afraid, but Norway is definitely in my longer term plans. Just need to convince my girlfriend who prefers traveling South instead of North

And Norway is the kind of place easiest seen with a car. People go there for nature not to see big cities.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 05:16 PM   #3950
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Sorry, one stupid question: how to identify the Riksvei sign which is not an E-road from the Fylkesvei(Fv)?
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Old June 26th, 2016, 05:34 PM   #3951
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Riksvei road number shields are green with white numbers. Fylkesvei number shields are white with black numbers.

There was a road numbering reorganization in 2010, which downgraded many riksveier to a fylkesvei, even though they're still maintained by Statens Vegvesen, the Norwegian Public Roads Administration. Many 3-digit county roads are not signed.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 05:37 PM   #3952
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Not this year I'm afraid, but Norway is definitely in my longer term plans. Just need to convince my girlfriend who prefers traveling South instead of North
Yes, women like beaches. Do you know that Norway also has sandy beaches and that Oslo temperature has an average high of 22 C in summer?

Selje Beach near Bergen can be reached by road



Offtopic here, but women also like good food and Norwegian kitchen is booming in Europe
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Last edited by Mathias Olsen; June 26th, 2016 at 06:02 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 07:26 PM   #3953
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Swimming in waters that must be < 15 oC, definitively no. Those locations are too northerly to get warm water I guess.

Are there in plans in place for a second fixed link between Tromso and its outer peninsula?
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Old June 26th, 2016, 08:03 PM   #3954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias Olsen View Post
In summer, Geiranger has about 5000 visitors daily. Not much for a world attraction. In winter it is too quiet. Roads are blocked because of the snow and avalanches. There is indeed a lack of touristic infrastructure.

Therefore the village wants year-round tourism. So, a new tunnel has been proposed by the Geiranger municipality. Improvements of road 15 to Geiranger are already under construction. http://www.sunnmoringen.no/frapapir/...g-12275950.ece
The new tunnel to Geiranger will be created including a tunnel with cross-solving to connect with road 15.

The new tunnel will made it possible to invite all days of the year tourists to Norway’s number one tourist attraction, the Geirangerfjord with the Seven Sisters….. and it will be a long way to go until Geiranger is at "European Standard" by means of tourism.
Thanks for the link and the background info. That project was new to me, but it is impressive. A few spontaneous comments:

- A tunnel project from Skåre to Breidalen will compete with Lærdalstunnelen and will remove the winter problem of having to cross Strynefjellet. That is ambitious. It will cost a lot of toll, probably, but fine, if it helps. One thought struck my mind immediately: Vegvesenet will apparently not rest before the entire major network will be laid underground. As long as they preserve the old roads for the tourist - OK.

- But what in the world are tourists supposed to do in Geiranger in winter ???
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Old June 27th, 2016, 01:17 PM   #3955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias Olsen View Post
In summer, Geiranger has about 5000 visitors daily. Not much for a world attraction. In winter it is too quiet. Roads are blocked because of the snow and avalanches. There is indeed a lack of touristic infrastructure.

Therefore the village wants year-round tourism. So, a new tunnel has been proposed by the Geiranger municipality. Improvements of road 15 to Geiranger are already under construction. http://www.sunnmoringen.no/frapapir/...g-12275950.ece
The new tunnel to Geiranger will be created including a tunnel with cross-solving to connect with road 15.

The new tunnel will made it possible to invite all days of the year tourists to Norway’s number one tourist attraction, the Geirangerfjord with the Seven Sisters….. and it will be a long way to go until Geiranger is at "European Standard" by means of tourism.
Well... There may my conflicting opinions around that case.

In my opinion, the most interesting part of Geiranger is not Geiranger itself, but the hairpin roads leading there (and to Dalsnibba). Hopefully there will be wisdom enough to retain the current road even if the tunnel road were built.
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Old June 27th, 2016, 01:51 PM   #3956
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Riksvei road number shields are green with white numbers. Fylkesvei number shields are white with black numbers.

There was a road numbering reorganization in 2010, which downgraded many riksveier to a fylkesvei, even though they're still maintained by Statens Vegvesen, the Norwegian Public Roads Administration. Many 3-digit county roads are not signed.
The Norwegian mess around the numbering is somewhat more complicated. At the reorganisation, the national roads (riksveg) downgraded to regional ones (fylkesveg) got a status of primary regional road. Those then existing regional roads are now secondary regional roads. There were a lot of number overlaps, which were corrected by renumbering the secondary ones. Only the numbers of the primary ones are shown on signs.

The things are not made easier by the decision to downgrade the roads by section. For example, number 55 is Fv55 Lom-Sogndal, Rv55 Sogndal-Hella, and again Fv55 Dragsvik-Vadheim
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Old June 28th, 2016, 01:20 AM   #3957
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With that much money around, making E16 completely ferry-free should be a priority.
Bridge to Scotland or what?
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Old June 28th, 2016, 08:15 AM   #3958
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Bridge to Scotland or what?
The Edinburgh-Bergen section of the E16 is nowadays ferry-free.
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Old June 28th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #3959
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The Edinburgh-Bergen section of the E16 is nowadays ferry-free.
And I'm pretty sure there has never been a Glasgow - Belfast ferry.

I don't know why the UNECE describe the routes as having implied ferries (that they admit may or may not exist) when crossing big bits of sea (ie the E39/E6 ones in Norway are fine, but the ones across the North/Black/Baltic/Mediterranean Sea aren't). Sure, the E67 ends in Helsinki as the ferry from Tallinn has the road number on it, but it doesn't get any further than the ferry gets once in Finland! However the E75 doesn't have numbers on the Gdansk-Helsinki ferry (though there is one), despite it linking two parts, rather than extending a route across a sea.

A better solution would be to treat the E16 as three routes with the same number, the E01 as two routes, etc. See also I-76, I-84, I-86, I-87 and I-88 in the US, where they are explicitly two different routes with the same number.
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Old June 28th, 2016, 02:54 PM   #3960
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Bridge to Scotland or what?
At least, I could not find any ferries in E16 on Norwegian territory
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