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Old January 20th, 2017, 12:59 PM   #4661
italystf
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To Bergen it was 1991, the opening of the Gudvangen tunnel. Until then there was no continuous road at all, neither paved or not.

To Tromsø there isn't either, even today, except through Sweden.
It means that until 1991 the 2nd Norweigian city wasn't accessible by road?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 01:01 PM   #4662
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When was first possible to travel between Oslo and each major city in all-paved roads? I read somewhere that E6 was not fully paved until the early 1980s in Finnmark, up to Kirkenes, which had been connected by paved roads with southern Norway only through Swedish roads.

What about road links to Tromso, Trondheim, Alesund, Bergen, Stavanger and Kristiansand?
I wonder, did the small town of Kirkenes have a military/strategic importance during the Cold War, being the last outpost of a NATO country before the Soviet Union?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 01:48 PM   #4663
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It means that until 1991 the 2nd Norweigian city wasn't accessible by road?
No, it does not. The roads were not free of ferries.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:03 PM   #4664
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No, it does not. The roads were not free of ferries.
Still, no only-road connection (ferries count as another mean of transportation). It's unusual for a town on the mainland not to have continuous roads to the continent.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:28 PM   #4665
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I wonder, did the small town of Kirkenes have a military/strategic importance during the Cold War, being the last outpost of a NATO country before the Soviet Union?
No, the line of defense is nearer to Tromsø, Kirkenes is to be sacrified during invasion. There was an episode of Soviet tanks fireing blanks at the 100 border guards equiped only with small arms in the 60s. No reinforsements were sent to protect them.

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Still, no only-road connection (ferries count as another mean of transportation). It's unusual for a town on the mainland not to have continuous roads to the continent.
Nothing is normal about Norways geography. There was an investigation on future of E6 in this area recommending ferry service for the next 30 years.
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Last edited by Ingenioren; January 20th, 2017 at 04:37 PM.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #4666
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Most of Finnmark isn't very mountainous, they probably though it was easier to defend Norway from the mountains, which start west of Alta. I believe Switzerland had a similar 'fall back to the mountains' scenario for national defense.
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Old January 20th, 2017, 04:57 PM   #4667
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Quote:
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Still, no only-road connection (ferries count as another mean of transportation). It's unusual for a town on the mainland not to have continuous roads to the continent.
It is a matter of taste, and subject to definition. In countries like Norway, the ferries are an extension to the road network, not something separate from the road system. The same applies to Finland, too, in certain areas.

As a matter of fact, a fixed link does not always imply a better service level than ferries. The mountain roads are often closed at adverse weather conditions, or driving is allowed as a member to a convoy only.





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Old January 20th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #4668
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E16

Toll collection on E16 Kløfta - Nybakk will end on 27 March.

The toll component of the construction cost has been paid back in 9.5 years, so it will become untolled. This four lane highway opened in October 2007.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #4669
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It means that until 1991 the 2nd Norweigian city wasn't accessible by road?
By a continuous road, yes.

They say a map is worth a thousand words, so let's see.

First, let's draw a border around Bergen, with a radius varying from 40 to 120 km. For simplicity's sake, let's colour that border: blue on sea, red on land.

Then, let's count all the roads crossing that border. That's simple: until 1991 there were none, from 1991 to 2013 there was one, and since 2013 there are two, and that's it.

Give any other city with a population of at least 200.000 and draw a border like that: can you even count the crossing roads?

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Old January 24th, 2017, 04:09 PM   #4670
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An English-language video detailing the Rv. 3 / Rv. 25 upgrade in the Elverum area.

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Old January 25th, 2017, 02:26 AM   #4671
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Give any other city with a population of at least 200.000 and draw a border like that: can you even count the crossing roads?
Yakutsk, Russia (pop. 282,000) has no paved roads to the rest of the world. It's also one of the coldest inhabitated places on Earth.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 25th, 2017, 03:35 AM   #4672
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Yakutsk, Russia (pop. 282,000) has no paved roads to the rest of the world. It's also one of the coldest inhabitated places on Earth.
Interestingly, they do have Google Street View.
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Old January 25th, 2017, 09:46 AM   #4673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Give any other city with a population of at least 200.000 and draw a border like that: can you even count the crossing roads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Give any other city with a population of at least 200.000 and draw a border like that: can you even count the crossing roads?

The following are somewhat comparable:

Vancouver, metropolitan area pop. 2.1 million, 7 roads to the peninsula



Singapore, pop 5.6 million, 2 roads to Malaysia



Mumbai at a river delta. Pop 20.7 million, 6 bridges across the river branches

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Old January 25th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #4674
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Manaus, Brazil (1.8 million) has just a paved road to Venezuela and a gravel road (with a ferry across the Amazon river) to the rest of Brazil.
Anchorage, USA (0.3 million) has only a road to the rest of the continent (another road goes south, but it ends in a peninsula).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 26th, 2017, 03:19 PM   #4675
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Ifjordfjellet (Fv98) gains the price for most beautiful road project in 2016. It has been widened to two lanes and raised in the terrain to keep snow from piling up. It is possible E6 will be rerouted over Ifjordfjellet as it much shorter than the current route.





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Old January 26th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #4676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Manaus, Brazil (1.8 million) has just a paved road to Venezuela and a gravel road (with a ferry across the Amazon river) to the rest of Brazil.
Anchorage, USA (0.3 million) has only a road to the rest of the continent (another road goes south, but it ends in a peninsula).
Anchorage is literally over 3,000km from the nearest major population centre, Edmonton, and those 3,000km cover extremely cold and difficult terrian.
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Old January 26th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #4677
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Ifjordfjellet (Fv98) gains the price for most beautiful road project in 2016. It has been widened to two lanes and raised in the terrain to keep snow from piling up. It is possible E6 will be rerouted over Ifjordfjellet as it much shorter than the current route.
A nice and scenic route. One of my favorites.

Despite the upgrade, the Fv98 is more subject to temporary closures and convoy driving than E6. It is because most of the E6 between Lakselv and Tana Bru runs on the lowlands of Teno Valley. The length of the leg is 253 km over E6 and 209 km over Fv98.

Here is my innovative proposal for a new E6. It is 660 km in length, thus 420 km shorter than the existing E6:



Narvik-Alta-Lakselv-Ifjord-Tana-Kirkenes could be renumbered to Rv98, Olderfjorden-Lakselv-Karasjok-Inari to E69, and Karasjok-Tana to Rv92.
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Old January 26th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #4678
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I think E-roads (and possibly every numbered road) should be the most logical routes between their beginning and end points, instead of following weird 'C-shaped' alingments.
For example, the shortest and fastest road between Malmo and Kirkeness, is certainly not via E6.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 12:13 AM   #4679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I think E-roads (and possibly every numbered road) should be the most logical routes between their beginning and end points, instead of following weird 'C-shaped' alingments.
For example, the shortest and fastest road between Malmo and Kirkeness, is certainly not via E6.
That sounds logical, but not politically easy: of course those two don't need to have anything in common. E6 as it is is one of Norwegian crown jewels.

Even rerouting E6 in place of today's rv 3 (Elverum and Tynset) would incite a political storm, despite that being the shortest route until Trondheim and still on a Norwegian territory (beyond Svinesund).
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Old January 27th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #4680
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Norway and Sweden always opposed to any renumbering of E4 and E6, as it would be too expensive to change all signs. Those two roads, in fact, were supposed to get odd numbers, like other N-S roads under the new system.
E6 used to go all the way from Rome to Kirkenes, but other countries changed the number.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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