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Old April 20th, 2017, 08:53 AM   #4761
Rob73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Well, usually there are alternative routes, except in the cases where:
  1. The tunnel substituted an unsafe section, eg with falling rocks, which post-tunnel has been closed/not maintained
  2. There were no link prior to the tunnel, this is the case with most submarine tunnels
For the latter category, the construction of a (long) tunnel does neither improve nor worsen the situation for the bicyclist. Both before and after alternative means of transportation, like pt, had to be used (except that normally short ferry link run more frequently than eg rural bus routes).

I can think of several ferry links around where I live that have been replaced by tunnels, there's no alternative routes for cyclists for any of them.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 10:35 AM   #4762
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But these fjords were not easily traversed by bike before either, unless you used PT (by ferry) which most likely still is an option (by bus or taxi) or got a hitch from someone with a car, which was my point.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #4763
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
But these fjords were not easily traversed by bike before either, unless you used PT (by ferry) which most likely still is an option (by bus or taxi) or got a hitch from someone with a car, which was my point.
The cyclists perhaps should create a group and have a car with a trailer. One member drives the car, and the others join at the long tunnels. The car driver turn may change in the daily basis, thus giving everyone a chance to have a rest.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #4764
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I have heard that it is no longer allowed to leave new tunnels with bare rock. I am not sure where this regulation comes from, which not always makes sense when the rock is of high quality. In general, new EU requirements have lead to a sharp increase in the construction and operational costs for tunnels, especially for longer tunnels. In reality, it is often less deadly accidents inside than outside tunnels in Norway, so some of these requirements seem a bit excessive.
At least the EU Tunnel Directive says nothing about the tunnel walls. Thus, the regulation might be Norway-originated.

Making a kind of a concrete vault inside the tunnel potentially makes it easier to solve the the two main pain points of the Norwegian tunnels: Rock instability and waterproofing.

The authorities, I believe, do not want see another incident like what happened in Hanekleivitunnel (200 cubic meters of ceiling collapsed).

The earlier method to do waterproofing by injecting PE foam in the tunnel walls was later found a disaster: The foam is highly flammable. In tests, the burning foam has created a temperature up to 1350 degrees centigrade.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #4765
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They should use specially-equipped shuttle buses to carry bicycles across tunnels where cycling is forbidden.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #4766
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They should use specially-equipped shuttle buses to carry bicycles across tunnels where cycling is forbidden.
The same principle should be extended to Sahara. If someone desperately wants to cycle on areas unsuitable cycling, a shuttle bus is the solution.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 01:38 PM   #4767
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They should use specially-equipped shuttle buses to carry bicycles across tunnels where cycling is forbidden.
How impractical is that?
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Old April 20th, 2017, 02:30 PM   #4768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
At least the EU Tunnel Directive says nothing about the tunnel walls. Thus, the regulation might be Norway-originated.

Making a kind of a concrete vault inside the tunnel potentially makes it easier to solve the the two main pain points of the Norwegian tunnels: Rock instability and waterproofing.

The authorities, I believe, do not want see another incident like what happened in Hanekleivitunnel (200 cubic meters of ceiling collapsed).

The earlier method to do waterproofing by injecting PE foam in the tunnel walls was later found a disaster: The foam is highly flammable. In tests, the burning foam has created a temperature up to 1350 degrees centigrade.
Using concrete vault on places with rock instability was used before though, many tunnels do not have such problems.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #4769
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Fosen bridges

The locals at Fosen are still working hard to realize a floating bridge across the Trondheimsfjord which is previously discussed here, which together with another bridge across a sidefjord (Stjørnfjorden) at the north side and a new tunnel on the Trondheim-side (south shore) promises to drastically shorten commuting times to the city. 6000-7000 AADT across the main bridge and total investment costs of 12 billion NOK is estimated by the bridge company established by the north shore municipalities. We will (maybe) see how realistic these figures are...

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Old April 20th, 2017, 10:13 PM   #4770
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
But these fjords were not easily traversed by bike before either, unless you used PT (by ferry) which most likely still is an option (by bus or taxi) or got a hitch from someone with a car, which was my point.
Its evident that tunnels are worse for cyclists than the ferry. I was once in the Hurum side with a bike looking for a bus to take me to Drøbak, but since there was none i just went somewhere else instead. Usually when you cycle in the country it's for leisure anyway - like this Dutch tourist. Generally there is made an effort for cyclists when it's doable - look at the Hardanger bridge for example.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 11:51 PM   #4771
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I won't argue with that, and agree that my initial statement perhaps was more principal than, what should I say, practical. In most cases there are bus links, though, (although that apparantly had zero success in the Oslo-fjord tunnel case, probably primarily due to more attractive options via Oslo or Moss-Horten?), and taxi is available everywhere, although usually at a higher cost than the ferry.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 12:55 PM   #4772
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Its evident that tunnels are worse for cyclists than the ferry. I was once in the Hurum side with a bike looking for a bus to take me to Drøbak, but since there was none i just went somewhere else instead. Usually when you cycle in the country it's for leisure anyway - like this Dutch tourist. Generally there is made an effort for cyclists when it's doable - look at the Hardanger bridge for example.
The international marine law states that the shipmaster is required to get all the relevant information about the coming route, including regulations, obstacles and hazards. The same approach should be followed in all travel, in order to avoid unnecessary disappointments.

Information about unsuitable tunnels to cyclists in Norway is easy to find. There are a lot of red markings in the SW Norway, thus not necessarily reflecting the most optimal destination.

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Old April 26th, 2017, 12:10 PM   #4773
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Statens Vegvesen dismissed the plan by Nye Veier to use less frost insulation on E6 along Mjøsa to cut cost. They say what will be cheaper to construct, will be more expensive to repair in the long run.

https://www.nrk.no/ho/vegdirektorate...e6_-1.13489235
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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #4774
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New lamps with LED is being installed all over the country, but they seem to not be working properly, i see them quite often going nuts like this:



Also, i tought this was kind of funny (but humour i guess)
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #4775
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Rv. 13 Svo Tunnel

Alternative 2b has been selected for the Riksvei 13 avalanche mitigation project between Tau and Årdal (Rogaland). It will extend the existing Svo Tunnel to a length of 10 kilometers, which would make it the sixth longest road tunnel in Norway as of 2017, but some other tunnels will open before the Svo Tunnel extension is completed (including the nearby 14.3 kilometer long Ryfylke Tunnel).

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Old April 28th, 2017, 03:02 PM   #4776
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From the construction of the Nordbyveien Bro in Ski outside of Oslo. This bridge is part of the reconstruction scheme for Ski station which in turns is part of the larger Follobanen railway project.





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Old April 28th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #4777
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Alternative 2b has been selected for the Riksvei 13 avalanche mitigation project between Tau and Årdal (Rogaland). It will extend the existing Svo Tunnel to a length of 10 kilometers, which would make it the sixth longest road tunnel in Norway as of 2017, but some other tunnels will open before the Svo Tunnel extension is completed (including the nearby 14.3 kilometer long Ryfylke Tunnel).

Must say I´m worried about the ever inceasing number of very long single-tube tunnels here in Norway. A large fatal gasoline-fire in a tunnel is only waiting to happen. Firefighers won`t be able to do much in such cases, with extreme temperature and oxygen it will be impossible to get into the tunnel with vehicles. They`ll have to wait for it to burn out. And with the ever increasing kilometers of main road inside this tunnels, the chance of being caught in one of them increases
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Old April 28th, 2017, 05:39 PM   #4778
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They don't seem to use the European tunnel categorization in Norway. The EU classifies its tunnels from A to E, with A being no restrictions and E most restrictive. Most tunnels in the EU are category B or C, prohibiting some kind of dangerous goods.

Though I understand that in Norway there aren't always viable alternative routes for dangerous goods available. Maybe that's why they haven't implemented it, it would restrict so many tunnels to the point they become obstacles to transportation instead of beneficial.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #4779
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3D renderings about different options to build a fixed link across Sognefjorden (road E39 north of Bergen)

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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 10:13 PM   #4780
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They don't seem to use the European tunnel categorization in Norway. The EU classifies its tunnels from A to E, with A being no restrictions and E most restrictive. Most tunnels in the EU are category B or C, prohibiting some kind of dangerous goods.
Perhaps they use, and categorize all tunnels as A.
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