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Old January 25th, 2009, 01:00 PM   #461
ElviS77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
They didn't want to raise the speed-limit because it would increase car-emissions....
Well, this is only partly the case, Norwegian limits have very much been linked to road safety - as I'm sure you know - and at the same time, motorways have been a rare commodity and continuous motorway sections longer than about 40 kms haven't excisted for more than a few years. The 100 limit was really a quantum leap, and since that is less than 10 years old, I think we should be patient. Also, in my experience, average driving speeds on Norwegian motorways aren't that much lower than for instance on Swedish, Dutch or Greek highways.

With the new sections just opened or due to open in a few years, I'll bet we'll not just see a 110 (or, dare I say it, 120...) limit, but possibly even a designated motorway limit. If we're really lucky, when more and more 2+1/1+1 divided expressways become operational, we might even see a 100 limit on those. However, non-divided highways or expressways with a limit above 80 kph will become a rarity - apart from in some rural areas.
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Old January 26th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #462
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Extra funds for Norwegian roads

http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/sd/...html?id=543741

As the government tries to deal with the consequences of the financial crisis, road network improvements might just become more realistic.
Currently, we're talking about 1.4 billion kroner (about 150 million euros), and the bulk will be spent on avalanche protection and other safety issues and pedestrian lanes, but some eight highway projects will be started earlier than expected. Not the massive spending some perhaps wanted, but it shows a will to use oil revenues to defeat the crisis.
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Old January 26th, 2009, 11:40 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Well, this is only partly the case, Norwegian limits have very much been linked to road safety - as I'm sure you know - and at the same time, motorways have been a rare commodity and continuous motorway sections longer than about 40 kms haven't excisted for more than a few years. The 100 limit was really a quantum leap, and since that is less than 10 years old, I think we should be patient. Also, in my experience, average driving speeds on Norwegian motorways aren't that much lower than for instance on Swedish, Dutch or Greek highways.

With the new sections just opened or due to open in a few years, I'll bet we'll not just see a 110 (or, dare I say it, 120...) limit, but possibly even a designated motorway limit. If we're really lucky, when more and more 2+1/1+1 divided expressways become operational, we might even see a 100 limit on those. However, non-divided highways or expressways with a limit above 80 kph will become a rarity - apart from in some rural areas.
I would love to see this too, but I'm a bit skeptical with the many new stretches that get built as "narrow highways". I don't think they will get or can support more than at most 100 km/h as top speed. The standard is, in general, a bit cheap..
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Old January 26th, 2009, 11:57 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/sd/...html?id=543741

As the government tries to deal with the consequences of the financial crisis, road network improvements might just become more realistic.
Currently, we're talking about 1.4 billion kroner (about 150 million euros), and the bulk will be spent on avalanche protection and other safety issues and pedestrian lanes, but some eight highway projects will be started earlier than expected. Not the massive spending some perhaps wanted, but it shows a will to use oil revenues to defeat the crisis.
Saw the list for both road and train. Wish it had been more money! In most other countries this would have been nice but Norway really needs to improve these areas anyway, so more would have been great.
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Old January 27th, 2009, 12:23 PM   #465
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I would love to see this too, but I'm a bit skeptical with the many new stretches that get built as "narrow highways". I don't think they will get or can support more than at most 100 km/h as top speed. The standard is, in general, a bit cheap..
Well, full motorways have a 3.5 m lane width and at least 1.5 m wide shoulders (total width 19 m+), much the same as you see in Sweden. They have no problems with 110 kph, even 120 is seen around Uppsala. I have driven French autoroutes that are not much wider, with a 130 limit, and I'd consider that fairly safe. The narrow profile expressways, with 3.25 m lanes and a narrow shoulder, are unlikely to see limits higher than 90 or possibly 100 kph, but they're not very common, and hopefully, that will remain the case on outer-urban main roads (for 60 kph urban routes, this standard makes sense, though).
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Old January 27th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #466
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Saw the list for both road and train. Wish it had been more money! In most other countries this would have been nice but Norway really needs to improve these areas anyway, so more would have been great.
Absolutely, but I don't think extraordinary fundings outside normal budgets are the way forward. We need more money on a regular basis, still, this could be a starting point.
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Old January 28th, 2009, 01:38 AM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Well, full motorways have a 3.5 m lane width and at least 1.5 m wide shoulders (total width 19 m+), much the same as you see in Sweden. They have no problems with 110 kph, even 120 is seen around Uppsala. I have driven French autoroutes that are not much wider, with a 130 limit, and I'd consider that fairly safe. The narrow profile expressways, with 3.25 m lanes and a narrow shoulder, are unlikely to see limits higher than 90 or possibly 100 kph, but they're not very common, and hopefully, that will remain the case on outer-urban main roads (for 60 kph urban routes, this standard makes sense, though).
Still find it cheap
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Old January 28th, 2009, 08:12 AM   #468
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The E4 north of Stockholm pretty much has no shoulder now for a good 20km!
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Old January 30th, 2009, 02:44 PM   #469
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And is 70-90 kmh on that stretch.
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Old February 1st, 2009, 10:25 PM   #470
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There's a stretch on the Swedish side of E6 around Dingle/Rabbalshede that has 110 km/h limit and no shoulders... I think it's 18,5 ?
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:01 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
There's a stretch on the Swedish side of E6 around Dingle/Rabbalshede that has 110 km/h limit and no shoulders... I think it's 18,5 ?
Yes, it's 18.5, but with a wider median than on 19-metre motorways in Norway, thus making the shoulders virtually non-existent.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 02:10 PM   #472
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I'm guessing those who have never driven in Norway, finds it hard to imagine the road-standard for the richest country in the world:
Riksvei 48 (A regional road.):

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr


Riksvei 49 (Also regional):
image hosted on flickr


Route 45, prefered route Oslo - Stavanger if you dare:
image hosted on flickr
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Last edited by Ingenioren; February 9th, 2009 at 03:39 PM.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 02:14 PM   #473
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What are the traffic volumes on such roads?

In NL, such roads, known as "Erftoegangsweg" are allowed to have 6.000 vehicles per day.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #474
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I think "riksvei" doesn't say too much with densities like in (the biggest part of) Norway, the road number is more like a guideline for long-distance travellers. Why should there be a standard size, when roads are (/can be) very quiet and when rough nature makes building new roads difficult, or at least very expensive?
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:41 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What are the traffic volumes on such roads?

In NL, such roads, known as "Erftoegangsweg" are allowed to have 6.000 vehicles per day.
It varies quite a bit. Often we're just talking about an AADT of 100-500, but it's by no means uncommon to see 1500-2000, and even busier sections (perhaps as high as 5000) do excist on one-lane roads. I'm not absolutely certain about the roads depicted, but that part of the rv 45 is rather quiet. The 48 and 49 are busier, but at least the former is gradually improved. However, the insanity of this improvement is that it doesn't take place from one or both ends, meaning that you'll get the worst sections (for instance the 3.2 metre wide depicted section through the village of Tysse - said to be the narrowest "riksvei" in Norway) in between decent 2-lane bits and a couple of new, quality pieces of road.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
I think "riksvei" doesn't say too much with densities like in (the biggest part of) Norway, the road number is more like a guideline for long-distance travellers. Why should there be a standard size, when roads are (/can be) very quiet and when rough nature makes building new roads difficult, or at least very expensive?
You're partly correct, but "riksvei" generally refers to roads of some regional significance. In addition, since most of the country is off limit to trains, these roads are used by buses and HGVs. The official policy is that a "riksvei" should be at least 6.5 metres wide (though many aren't).

However, the latest reform to hit our shores will from 2010 make only trunk roads (the current "stamvei" - E routes plus other roads with green numbers - and a few other important roads) the new "riksveier". The other "riksveier" will be county roads - "fylkesveier" along with the current county roads. Since county roads currently have a very different numbering system to the national roads, it's anyone's guess what will happen.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #477
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I find it very hard to believe that there will be no further separation between what we consider unimportant farm roads, now Fylkesvei - no numbers signed, and importantant intercity and regional routes - where numbers are important for finding your way, now Riksvei... A lot of the current riksvei doesn't make a lot of sense, but most of them still do, and needs to be numbered - especially the numbers from 5 to 98...
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Old February 10th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
I find it very hard to believe that there will be no further separation between what we consider unimportant farm roads, now Fylkesvei - no numbers signed, and importantant intercity and regional routes - where numbers are important for finding your way, now Riksvei... A lot of the current riksvei doesn't make a lot of sense, but most of them still do, and needs to be numbered - especially the numbers from 5 to 98...
I'd like to see a total remake of the numbering system now, since they're reworking the official status of so many roads anyways... Something like this would perhaps make sense:
1. National routes - 1-30 plus E numbers ("green" roads)
2. Important regional routes - 31-99
3. Regional/important county routes - 100-999
and possibly
4. remaining county routes - 1000+
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Old February 13th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
I'm guessing those who have never driven in Norway, finds it hard to imagine the road-standard for the richest country in the world:
....

Route 45, prefered route Oslo - Stavanger if you dare:
image hosted on flickr
Thanks for the nice, and illustrative pictures! Is that really rv 45? It looks very much like the Suleskar road to me, which is a stretch of county road in between the two lengths of rv 45. As far as I know, this road was built in conjunction with hydro power schemes up there, and was never meant to be the main highway between Oslo and Stavanger. I even think the Suleskar road is closed during winter. Due to the very hilly nature of this Oslo-Stavanger route, which crosses something like 5 rather steep valleys, this will never be the preferred Oslo-Stavanger route, except for summer tourists, for which the road is highly recommended because it is very scenic.

In my opinion it is a more serious problem that even some of the most important highways (like E39 and E6) in Norway still are of similar standard in places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
You're partly correct, but "riksvei" generally refers to roads of some regional significance. In addition, since most of the country is off limit to trains, these roads are used by buses and HGVs. The official policy is that a "riksvei" should be at least 6.5 metres wide (though many aren't).
Local drivers of course knows which roads that are suitable for instance when driving long trucks, and often makes large detours to avoid the worst stretches of the Norwegian road network. However, foreign drivers using their GPS often run into trouble.

Unfortunately, narrow roads is not the only thing that foreign truckers have to cope with. A more serious problem is that many of them is neither skilled or equipped for driving on sometimes slippery Norwegian winter roads. Last week we had a tragic accident involving a German truck on the E6 north of Trondheim.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but it is clear that no Norwegian drivers would drive with such tyres during winter time, and when the road is slippery trucks are required to put on snow chains as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
I'd like to see a total remake of the numbering system now, since they're reworking the official status of so many roads anyways... Something like this would perhaps make sense:
1. National routes - 1-30 plus E numbers ("green" roads)
2. Important regional routes - 31-99
3. Regional/important county routes - 100-999
and possibly
4. remaining county routes - 1000+
I like the principle, but in my opinion it should suffice to constrain national routes between number 1-9, optionally including the E-numbers. As I have claimed before, I think there are currently too many "green" roads, and they only seem to multiply, which means that the politicians never will be able to prioritize the most important roads.

PS: I tried the Rendalen road some time ago. You were right, it was very straight at places, but at others it was very hilly and curvy, and everywhere it was quite narrow. In conclusion I would not recommended this road over rv 3 except for people who want to try their new sports car (in summer time)....
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Old February 13th, 2009, 02:07 PM   #480
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It is Suleskar road (that's why i wrote "route" instead of riksvei, altough the riksvei part is just as narrow at times) and it's closed in winter, but during the summer it is definatly the fastest road to Stavanger.

There should be a an information with free maps to foreign truck drivers on the borders regarding routes that are recommended and not...

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