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Old May 1st, 2017, 01:50 PM   #4781
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They don't seem to use the European tunnel categorization in Norway. The EU classifies its tunnels from A to E, with A being no restrictions and E most restrictive. Most tunnels in the EU are category B or C, prohibiting some kind of dangerous goods.

Though I understand that in Norway there aren't always viable alternative routes for dangerous goods available. Maybe that's why they haven't implemented it, it would restrict so many tunnels to the point they become obstacles to transportation instead of beneficial.
I`m not very into the correlation between the Norwegian and European tunnel classifications, but very often "EU-demands" is used as a reason for either expanding with a twin-bore of excisting tunnels, or at new buildings, where the traffic aint at a level of at least four lanes.

In Norway tunnels are classified from A-F, with A being average daily traffic of under 300. Class F is tunnels with an AADT of more than 50 000. Class E and F both requires two tubes. Class E is tunnels with at AADT of at least 8000-12 000, depending on the tunnels length.
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:59 PM   #4782
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I share this since i tought it was well made, not a highway but a work-site delivery road:

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Old May 3rd, 2017, 10:37 PM   #4783
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That is a lot of snow for just 1010m altitude.
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 11:28 PM   #4784
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Generally, in Norway: add 1500 meters to have similar things as in the Alps (tree line, snow cover, mountain views, etc.)
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 11:43 PM   #4785
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E134 Mælefjell Tunnel

Breakthrough has been achieved today at the 9.4 kilometer long Mælefjell Tunnel, previously known as the Gvammen - Århus Tunnel. The tunnel will open to traffic in 2019.

The tunnel is located near Seljord in Telemark. It will shorten driving time along E134, though it may become superfluous if they are really going to build a new alignment of E134 north of the current route, which would turn the section via Seljord and Åmot into a local road.

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Old May 5th, 2017, 02:59 AM   #4786
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That is a lot of snow for just 1010m altitude.
Well, I live in Central Finland at an altitude of 100 m, and here everything was suddenly covered in snow just 4 days ago. (Although that quickly melted.)
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Old May 5th, 2017, 04:17 AM   #4787
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Well, I live in Central Finland at an altitude of 100 m, and here everything was suddenly covered in snow just 4 days ago. (Although that quickly melted.)
I need to reprogram my climatic references as I move to Norway in August. I know, at least, that Bergen has the mildest climate of the whole Norway (snow doesn't bother me much, though - short days are more of an angst).
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Old May 5th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #4788
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I need to reprogram my climatic references as I move to Norway in August. I know, at least, that Bergen has the mildest climate of the whole Norway (snow doesn't bother me much, though - short days are more of an angst).
Hope you don't mind rain 300 days a year.
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Old May 5th, 2017, 08:00 PM   #4789
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A truck has caught fire in the Oslofjord Tunnel this evening.

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Old May 5th, 2017, 10:27 PM   #4790
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Hopefully this is the final nail in the coffin for the plans of building a second tube. A new bridge must come. The existing tunnel can be used as a waste disposal.
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Old May 6th, 2017, 10:30 AM   #4791
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I thought they already decided on a new tunnel? Then they'll have to death traps instead of just one.
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Old May 6th, 2017, 04:11 PM   #4792
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Actually they haven't. Statens Vegvesen now recommends a bridge. But the final decision is yet to come. However, in the new NTP they've only put up the money for a second tube. And states that if a bridge is chosen, the money for that won't be there until after 2029
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Old May 6th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #4793
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The Oslofjord Tunnel remains closed for at least the next 2-3 weeks. 500 meters of lighting has been destroyed by the fire and the need to resurface the pavement.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #4794
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Statens Vegvesen dismissed the plan by Nye Veier to use less frost insulation on E6 along Mjøsa to cut cost. They say what will be cheaper to construct, will be more expensive to repair in the long run.

https://www.nrk.no/ho/vegdirektorate...e6_-1.13489235
Organization of the public Norwegian road entities are a bit confusing. Most roads are still administered and maintained by Statens Vegvesen. Nye veier is a new entity established to execute larger projects to build longer stretches of roads in a cost/benefit optimal way. Basically, they have a range of longer projects which they themselves can prioritize between, somewhat detached from the annual government budgets. The road directorate (Veidirektoratet) is responsible for overseeing both what Statens vegvesen and Nye veier is doing.

Although I am no expert, I think the road directorate's argument in this particular case make a lot of sense, as there have been a few expensive blunders with regards to thin frost insulation in Norway. On the other hand, I would like to give Nye Veier a lot of credit that this new organization certainly seems to be having a fresh look on a lot of things. For instance, in my region, they have dramatically upgraded the ambitions on the part of E6 they are responsible for. Originally the new E6 for the most part only was planned for 90 km/h, with everything south of Støren and north of Stjørdal being 1+1. By also including the benefit of higher travel speed in the analysis, Nye Veier currently aims for 110 km/h and four lanes for most of the planned roads (more than 100 km)

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Old May 11th, 2017, 10:34 PM   #4795
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[...] Originally the new E6 for the most part only was planned for 90 km/h, with everything south of Støren and north of Stjørdal being 1+1. By also including the benefit of higher travel speed in the analysis, Nye Veier currently aims for 110 km/h and four lanes for most of the planned roads (more than 100 km)
Ok, so what does that mean exactly, that map isn't really clear about what parts will be four lane or not (except previously known parts, such as Ranheim–Værnes and Skjerdingstad–Støren which will be motorway). Are all the red parts planned as four lanes now? Korporalsbrua–Vindåsliene will still be 1+1 or 1+2 right?
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Old May 12th, 2017, 01:40 AM   #4796
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Ok, so what does that mean exactly, that map isn't really clear about what parts will be four lane or not (except previously known parts, such as Ranheim–Værnes and Skjerdingstad–Støren which will be motorway). Are all the red parts planned as four lanes now? Korporalsbrua–Vindåsliene will still be 1+1 or 1+2 right?

Future standard and speed limits according to statements from Nye Veier:

E6 Kvithammer-Åsen - 4 lanes - 110 km/t.
E6 Ranheim-Værnes - 4 lanes - 110 km/t most likely, if not 90 km/t (90-100 km/t anyway at endpoints at Ranheim and Værnes).
E6 Melhus-Støren - 4 lanes - 100 km/t or 110 km/t.
E6 Støren-Ulsberg - Originally planned as 1+2 road and 90 km/t. Now they talk about a narrow 4-lane road (18,5 m) and 110 km/t between Ulsberg and Vindåsliene (Soknedal south). Vindåsliene-Støren will remain 1+2 and 90 km/t, or get 4 lanes and 90-100 km/t.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #4797
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Støren-Vindåsliene is problematic because, as anyone driving through the sometimes rather narrow and winding valley realizes, it would require a lot of tunnels to reach the geometry required for 110 km/h according to Norwegian norms. Further, Korporalbrua-Vindåsliene (in pink in the map) is not part of the Nye veier portfolio, but is a Statens veivesen project with imminent start-up to be constructed as 1+1/2 (and with geometry for 90 km/h). Perhaps feeling the heat of competition from Nye veier, even Statens veivesen are now talking about preparing this section for a possible extension to 2+2 (but not 110) later, though, if the continuation on both sides are 2+2 as well.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #4798
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In my opinion it would be better to secure a four lane motorway rather than securing a 110 km/h alignment. I'm more concerned with the narrow cross section (18,5 meters) than I'm concerned about the geometry, as long as they stick to radii according to the standards (90, 100, or 110 km/h). Additionally, they can't mess with the cross section for the tunnels, so between each segment (which could be many) they'd have to contract and expand from these 18,5 meters, something which also has a potential for messing up the curvature/geometry.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #4799
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Organization of the public Norwegian road entities are a bit confusing. Most roads are still administered and maintained by Statens Vegvesen. Nye veier is a new entity established to execute larger projects to build longer stretches of roads in a cost/benefit optimal way. Basically, they have a range of longer projects which they themselves can prioritize between, somewhat detached from the annual government budgets. The road directorate (Veidirektoratet) is responsible for overseeing both what Statens vegvesen and Nye veier is doing.
The mode of operation of Nye Veier seems to be different from the PPP model used elsewhere: The basic idea of the PPP model is that there is a strong incentive for the contractor to make a high-quality road. Failures to do so cause excessive cost at the use phase, and jeopardize the business case.

That logic does not seem to apply to NV: If its pocket gets exhausted at the use phase, the governments sends more money. Instead of implementing the incentive on the PPP model, NV is only kind of an instrument to bypass the slow and unpredictable annual state budgeting.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #4800
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We do have PPPs in Norway as well, in E39 and E18 at the south coast and E39 in Trøndelag. Also the new RV 3 around Eleverum will be a PPP project (the 4 BNOK bid has deadline May 20th, btw.), and two additional OPS projects are under preparation.

Nye veier (NV) is not a PPP. It is a company, but fully owned by the national government. Like Statens veivesen (SVV), it will not only be responsible for constructing, but also for the maintenance of the 500+ kms of roads it currently is mandated to build. Hence, it has the same motivation (or lack of it) as any other public entity to do things as rational and efficient as possible.

Normally I actually have the belief that most people, and engineers in particular, in the public sector tries to do the right thing, but it can of course be tempting for any leader sometimes to focus more on the next year result than 20 years ahead. That is indeed why we have a separate entity (Vegdirektoratet) to enforce the required quality and standards of our roads, regardless whether they are constructed by SVV or NV.

As you say, the advantage of NV is that it is able to plan much more in the long term than SVV, which is controlled annually in rather large detail by the politicians regarding what bits and pieces of the Norwegian road network it should focus on. Unfortunately, politicians tend to be lot more short-term than professional engineers as they always have to be reelected in a few years time. Delaying a region for some years to focus on another can cost votes, and hence they tend to spread the investiments all over the place. NV do not need to be reelected, and can hence build in a more rational way. It can focus at longer stretches of road at a time, which leads to more efficient road building and more consistent standards. With longer consistent stretches also the economic benefit becomes more apparent. NV also says they plan to have more longterm maintenance contracts, which would force the contractors to think more long-term as well (and hence resemble the PPPs in that aspect.) In principle all of this could also have been achieved within the old SVV structure, but it would be much easier to undo if not instutionalized.


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Originally Posted by devo View Post
In my opinion it would be better to secure a four lane motorway rather than securing a 110 km/h alignment. I'm more concerned with the narrow cross section (18,5 meters) than I'm concerned about the geometry, as long as they stick to radii according to the standards (90, 100, or 110 km/h). Additionally, they can't mess with the cross section for the tunnels, so between each segment (which could be many) they'd have to contract and expand from these 18,5 meters, something which also has a potential for messing up the curvature/geometry.
I kind of disagree. It would of course be better to have full width motorway, but the NV proposal is still much better than the original 90 km/h 1+1. Why? Because geometry (and then I mean primarily alignment) is much harder to fix in the future than width. In Norwegian terrain, and in particular the specific terrain in question, you would have to rebuild a lot of the road in order to upgrade from 90 km/h alignment to 110 km/h, and hence waste much of the original investment. This we have already seen in eg E6 Trondheim-Stjørdal and E39 Klett-Orkanger, where in both cases Statens vegvesen has been unwilling to upgrade from 90 to 110 but rather stick to the old alignment in their proposals for 2+2, as a new alignment would cost too much according to them. This is despite the fact that the ADDT in particular in the former case is much higher than is required for a full motorway. Although the E6 decision now possibly will be rectified by NV, it would be much easier with an appropriate alignment in the first place.
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