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Old May 12th, 2017, 11:45 PM   #4801
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Yes, alignment and speed limits are most important factors. Easier to upgrade later. AADT 6-12.000 requires 90 km/t 1+1, so 110 km/t 18,5 m would be a good solution at Ulsberg-Vindåsliene. If AADT exceeds 12-15.000, all motorways should be 23 m.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:30 AM   #4802
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Speaking of E6 in Trøndelag, I found this cool drone video of the current stretch Åsen - Mære



On this stretch they're planing to build E6 in a new alignment. AADT is 12-15 000 and they're saying it's going to be planned for 110km/h, so I guess that means 4-lanes? Anything else would make little sense since it's going to be in a new alignment, and traffic will probably increase due it being in a (for Norway) relatively densely populated area. The project page says the following: "Kommunedelplanen gir mulighet for 110 km/t og fire felt, men det er i neste planfase (reguleringsplan) at det tas stilling til hvordan vegen blir."

Either way it's going to be grade separated and the tunnels are going to have separate tubes.

See project page for more info
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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #4803
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Interesting, maybe SVV for once will try to push it a little, as the concept selection study (KVU) for some reason recommended 1+1 / 90 km/h.

According to the current norms, 110 km/h will require 4 lanes, 20 m width, and rather strict geometrical constraints. As has been already discussed, Nye Veier is challenging this, at least regarding the full width of roads with relatively low traffic. E6 Åsen - Mære however has higher traffic, and hence probably needs at least 20 m width anyway.

1+1 / 90 km/h would also be in breach of the norms when AADT> 12 000, btw.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 07:48 PM   #4804
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Security camera footage of the Oslofjord Tunnel fire. The truck caught fire on the underside while driving. It then stopped. Within a few minutes the whole cabin is on fire, you can see how quickly the smoke spreads.

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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:00 PM   #4805
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E16 Bergen - Voss

The recommended alternative for the E16 and railroad upgrade east of Bergen, from Arna to Stanghelle. It is an approximately 28 kilometer segment of road that will be nearly entirely tunneled, it includes three tunnels between 9 and 10 kilometers long which very short 'open air' segments between them.

There will be a four lane tunnel from Arna to Trengereid (where Fv. 7 splits off) and then a two-lane tunnel from Trengereid to Stanghelle. Traffic will briefly enter daylight at Trengereid and Vaksdal.

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Old May 22nd, 2017, 04:32 PM   #4806
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Fylkesvei 714

A new section of fylkesvei 714 will open to traffic on 29 May in Snillesdalen.

Fylkesvei 714 is quite a long county road, being the only outlet for the municipalities of Hitra and Snillfjord. As these municipalities lack a central town of significance, people have to travel long distances to the nearest somewhat larger town. Orkanger has a population of 7,800 and is the nearest town of any significance for villages on Hitra and Frøya, which may be as far as 140 kilometers away on narrow and curvy roads. Trondheim is another 50 kilometers further.

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Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:06 PM   #4807
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10 billion NOK worth of fish was exported from Sør-Trøndelag county in 2015 (and a lot more in 2016). Most of that fish was exported using that highway, nicknamed the "Salmon road".
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 11:03 PM   #4808
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Guess this fits in this topic

E105 Bøkfjordbrua - montering
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Old May 27th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #4809
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The giant project Rogfast was approved by the Norwegian parliament this week. Rogfast will link Stavanger and Haugesund in the southwest of Norway, It will be the longest (26.7 km) and deepest (almost 400 m) in the world, will have two tunes, and include a submarine grade separated interchange.

This project is however only the start of the larger ambition of getting rid of all 7 ferries on E39 between Stavanger to Trondheim. Statens vegvesen published a video on Rogfast and ferry free E39. The voice over and pretty lame dialog is in Norwegian, but some of the graphics, in particular Rogfast, is pretty cool.
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Old May 28th, 2017, 03:35 AM   #4810
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Did I get this right about this (possible) structure at 2'47" to 3'04": nothing is supporting the tube from below, just the air within? There are some cables that seemingly prevent it from surfacing, but not from sinking.

In other words: if there is a leak, the tube is not only filled with water, it also sinks?
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Old May 30th, 2017, 10:50 PM   #4811
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Yes, some submerged tube tunnel concepts have additional pontoons on the surface, but in areas/sections with large wind and sea wave loads that is not a great idea. In such sections the tube should instead be deep enough to be unaffected by surface conditions (and ships), and only anchored to the sea bottom using tension legs. A major leak as you describe would however be catastrophic regardless, but the probability is very small. The effects of a collision between a Norwegian submarine sailing at 20 knots and the proposed tube tunnel of Bjørnefjorden (Haugesund - Bergen) have been investigated, and the conclusion was that the surface of the tube was barely scratched.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/rorbro-kan-...ord-1.12879668 (Norwegian)

After all, the walls are 80 cm thick, reinforced concrete. Elaborate risk assessments have also been performed for the pontoon type tunnel and surface ships.
http://e24.no/bil/superbro-over-norg...isjon/22941925

It seems like the submerged tube concept has been scrapped for Bjørnefjorden, but is still considered for Sulafjorden and Halsafjorden further north on the E39, as well as a number of other fjords and straights.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:25 AM   #4812
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A question about old roads. Last September I discovered a really cool road in Finnmark, the Beskades Road. Apparently it is a fragment of the old Alta-Kautokeino road (Rv 93), going over a 500 m plateau instead of the current alignment through a narrow river canyon (which is admittedly no less spectacular). If I remember correctly the current road is built in the 1960s and the old one in 1930s, and before that there was a postal track for reindeer sledges. The old road stretch (Gargia to Suolovuopmi) is a 27 km long rough narrow gravel road, but fairly easy to drive. It's closed in winter of course. Very picturesque drive, above the treeline with mountain lakes, numerous reindeers, and Sami camps. I'm not sure about its official status but it is even filmed by Google Street View. It is barely advertised anywhere though, I just found it by accident on a topo map. I'm wondering are there any other old roads like that in North Norway? I know there are various old roads over the mountains in the south, like the one replaced by Lærdal Tunnel, but I couldn't find anything else like that in the north.

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Old June 5th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #4813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Yes, some submerged tube tunnel concepts have additional pontoons on the surface, but in areas/sections with large wind and sea wave loads that is not a great idea. In such sections the tube should instead be deep enough to be unaffected by surface conditions (and ships), and only anchored to the sea bottom using tension legs. A major leak as you describe would however be catastrophic regardless, but the probability is very small. The effects of a collision between a Norwegian submarine sailing at 20 knots and the proposed tube tunnel of Bjørnefjorden (Haugesund - Bergen) have been investigated, and the conclusion was that the surface of the tube was barely scratched.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/rorbro-kan-...ord-1.12879668 (Norwegian)

After all, the walls are 80 cm thick, reinforced concrete. Elaborate risk assessments have also been performed for the pontoon type tunnel and surface ships.
http://e24.no/bil/superbro-over-norg...isjon/22941925

It seems like the submerged tube concept has been scrapped for Bjørnefjorden, but is still considered for Sulafjorden and Halsafjorden further north on the E39, as well as a number of other fjords and straights.
How do you build it? I guess you need Platfromships to out them in place and Pontons to hold them there until all are there. Than you might open the barriers between segments and fill them with air, i.e. pump the water out, after they are stabilised byy cables, the pontons can be removed.

That means the segments must be all ready and could be put in place in summer only. If it functions its great engineering.
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Old June 6th, 2017, 06:32 PM   #4814
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I am not an expert, but probably there are multiple options here, and the best solution most likely will be project specific. However, I am pretty sure that it can be done. Also, the segments, or maybe even most of the tube, will be fabricated in sheltered waters and at the surface or even at land. The solution mentioned in this Norwegian article from the Norwegian road services is to prefabricate sections of 200 meters that will be joined close to the sound to be crossed and then towed (and lowered) into place. In that case I would assume the chain must have a buoyancy higher than gravity during the whole process. In order to be able to lower the tunnel the net vertical force must be very close to neutral, whereas the buoyancy again should be slighty higher than gravity after the tube is finally anchored. In practice you would probably manipulate the weight (gravity) rather than the volume (buoyancy) eg by pumping water in and out of ballast tanks. Using Pontoons might not be necessary. Neither do I think this work will need to take place in summer only, but high winds and waves are probably undesirable when the whole tube is lowered into the sea, so probably that critical phase will take place during the summer months when the weather normally (but not always) is calmer.

Needless to say, this would indeed not be engineering for the novice. Experience from both immersed tube projects and the Norwegian offshore experience should be used to an advantage. The largest structure ever moved by man is the 470 m talll Troll A platform in the North Sea, which was moved 200 km offshore from a sheltered fjord before lowered onto the sea floor (again by manipulating the weight). These condeep platforms are no longer constructed, as floating structures are much cheaper.
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Old June 6th, 2017, 10:36 PM   #4815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringtail1402 View Post
A question about old roads. Last September I discovered a really cool road in Finnmark, the Beskades Road. Apparently it is a fragment of the old Alta-Kautokeino road (Rv 93), going over a 500 m plateau instead of the current alignment through a narrow river canyon (which is admittedly no less spectacular). If I remember correctly the current road is built in the 1960s and the old one in 1930s, and before that there was a postal track for reindeer sledges. The old road stretch (Gargia to Suolovuopmi) is a 27 km long rough narrow gravel road, but fairly easy to drive. It's closed in winter of course. Very picturesque drive, above the treeline with mountain lakes, numerous reindeers, and Sami camps. I'm not sure about its official status but it is even filmed by Google Street View. It is barely advertised anywhere though, I just found it by accident on a topo map. I'm wondering are there any other old roads like that in North Norway? I know there are various old roads over the mountains in the south, like the one replaced by Lærdal Tunnel, but I couldn't find anything else like that in the north.
I believe the Gargiavegen is quite unique. No other such long old but drive-able thru roads exists in the north.

At least the book "Med bil i Norge" (latest edition 1997 AFAIK) introduces the road. I have driven it once, about 25 years ago. In that time, the road was barely passable by our Fiat Uno.

The road is listed in the National Verneplan (road conservation plan). If you are interested in the Norwegian road history (in Norwegian Bokmål), please visit

http://www.vegvesen.no/Fag/Fokusomra...plan/Objektene
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Old June 9th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #4816
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Quote:
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I believe the Gargiavegen is quite unique. No other such long old but drive-able thru roads exists in the north.

At least the book "Med bil i Norge" (latest edition 1997 AFAIK) introduces the road. I have driven it once, about 25 years ago. In that time, the road was barely passable by our Fiat Uno.

The road is listed in the National Verneplan (road conservation plan). If you are interested in the Norwegian road history (in Norwegian Bokmål), please visit

http://www.vegvesen.no/Fag/Fokusomra...plan/Objektene
Thank you! I wonder why they don't make this road a National Tourist Route. Although it seems all of these routes in Norway are at least paved.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #4817
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There are of course other "veteran" roads. Most of the roads built in the 30s are actually still in use in more or less the same alignment (but often paved). One of the most famous veteran roads of Norway is probably Rallarvegen, a 90 km road built in 1912 in connection with the Oslo - Bergen railway construction. Another example is the considerably older Vårstigen in Dovrefjell en route Trondheim - Oslo, first mentioned in written sources in 1182. Neither of these two are open (or passable) for car traffic, though.

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Old June 10th, 2017, 02:04 PM   #4818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
There are of course other "veteran" roads. Most of the roads built in the 30s are actually still in use in more or less the same alignment (but often paved). One of the most famous veteran roads of Norway is probably Rallarvegen, a 90 km road built in 1912 in connection with the Oslo - Bergen railway construction. Another example is the considerably older Vårstigen in Dovrefjell en route Trondheim - Oslo, first mentioned in written sources in 1182. Neither of these two are open (or passable) for car traffic, though.
Yes, there are. However, the original question asked if there are such roads in the North. Old fragments exist, but such 50 km long thru-roads not.

Something similar is the road to Hamningberg. The road itself is not abandoned, but the place is.
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Old June 12th, 2017, 01:32 PM   #4819
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The four lane E39 between Hove and Sandved (south of Stavanger) opens to traffic on 7 July.

http://www.vegvesen.no/om+statens+ve...medium=twitter
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Old June 13th, 2017, 02:35 AM   #4820
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This project is however only the start of the larger ambition of getting rid of all 7 ferries on E39 between Stavanger to Trondheim. Statens vegvesen published a video on Rogfast and ferry free E39. The voice over and pretty lame dialog is in Norwegian, but some of the graphics, in particular Rogfast, is pretty cool.
In English.

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