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Old August 16th, 2017, 11:40 AM   #4881
Rob73
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I see an older gent everyday on a contraption like the Hepro, he uses it on the cycle paths and side walks.
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Old August 16th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #4882
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A few weeks ago there was in the news that people in the Netherlands also start using them without anything (physically ) wrong with them. Here they are called Brommobiel and are indeed for the disabled and require at least a moped license to drive (car one will do also). Most cities ban mopeds to the road (as they are unsafe and polluting for cyclists), so these too. This is what they look like here:

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Old August 21st, 2017, 09:40 PM   #4883
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https://www.nrk.no/ho/vegvesenet-gik...dig-1.13632064

This summer I did a 6500 km road trip through Sweden, Finland and Norway - up to Kirkenes, zigzaging through Northern Norway and back to Oslo again. There were many road-related experiences, of course, some obvious and well-known - Norwegian roads are worse than Swedish and Finnish is a dead giveaway... - but why are we completely unable to pave our roads the way they do? It shouldn't be more difficult to do so across the border. Parts of the E6 through Finnmark is worse than secondary roads in Sweden and Finland, and our secondary network is often borderline insane (compare 10 kms of Norwegian rv 92 to 120 km of its Finnish counterpart either side of the border at Neiden, for instance. The Finnish part isn't great, but compared to the Norwegian it's a continental motorway...).

There are many reasons for this, of course, some are again well-known, others more obscure. What is certain is that developing Norwegian infrastructure is a challenge for any government.... The link above (in Norwegian...) is perhaps the silliest expression of how things go badly wrong up here. It's not a massive project, just widening and straightening the important rv 3 for about 16 kms in Østerdalen. The alignment has not been changed, and similar projects have been completed along rv 3 over the past few years. This time around, however, money ran out, and they were unable to finish. Thus,
they basically had to repave something resembling the old alignment at the same, narrow width and put up temporary guardrails - inside the widened structure - after about two years of road works... Completion is now not expected until some time next year at the earliest. It's clearly going to be considerably more expensive, and even though the project isn't that costly, this is money wasted.

Similar issues are very common, many projects big and small are still left unfinished, many are postponed for years or even decades. In addition, many improved sections (and sections under Construction or at advanced planning stages) are found between seriously substandard ones which aren't expected to be replaced anytime the next decade or two, and it's very often difficult to understand priorities. I absolutely understand that money is finite, but it's fairly obvious that systematic progress is preferable to and cheaper than the current approach. Political parties all across the political spectrum claim they have the solution - or at least that the other guys have the wrong one, particularly in an election year... - but still...
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Old August 21st, 2017, 09:59 PM   #4884
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Norway is much more mountaniuous and full of fjords and islands than Sweden and Finland, and that makes road construction and maintenance much more challenging and expensive.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 10:23 PM   #4885
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I know, I'm Norwegian... There are many other reasons as well, but they don't apply to repaving already existing roads! That just annoys me. And, more importantly, the way we do things here doesn't help things much, and it leads to problems even in Østerdalen and Finnmark, areas with a geography which fairly closely resembles that of Sweden and Finland.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 08:41 AM   #4886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
https://www.nrk.no/ho/vegvesenet-gik...dig-1.13632064

Parts of the E6 through Finnmark is worse than secondary roads in Sweden and Finland, and our secondary network is often borderline insane (compare 10 kms of Norwegian rv 92 to 120 km of its Finnish counterpart either side of the border at Neiden, for instance. The Finnish part isn't great, but compared to the Norwegian it's a continental motorway...).
I am sorry to point a detail: The Norwegian rv92 meets Finland in Karigasniemi, not in Neiden. The road to Neiden is rv893. I presume you are referring to the latter one.

Anyway, the Finnish road 971 at the other side of the border was not a high-priority road to build either. It was complete in 1969 up to Sevettijärvi, which is the only permanently populated village on the road, and it was extended in pieces to the border in the 1970's. Initially, it was built as a "path" (a low-class narrow road of limited maintenance and without traffic signs), but it was made a "road" later. The current shape as a better road dates back to 1993 when the road was upgraded to a decent transport corridor to the Kirkenes area.

Before the road was built, people, mail, and goods were transported by vehicles like this:



It might interesting to know that Finlands was earlier reluctant to build roads to the eastern border for defence reasons. The road 92 over Karigasniemi was for decades the only road from the NE Finland to Norway. The Neiden road was complete in late 1970's, the current 970 to Nuorgam/Polmak in 1971, and the Sami Bridge in Utsjoki on 4/E75 no earlier than in 1993.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:37 PM   #4887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Norway is much more mountaniuous and full of fjords and islands than Sweden and Finland, and that makes road construction and maintenance much more challenging and expensive.
Not in every part of the country. But even in the SE areas resembling Sweden and Finland, most roads seem to have been built windy and narrow. Something like what Finland built during the years of post-war main upgrade in 1950's and 1960's.

E16: https://www.google.fi/maps/@60.18114...7i13312!8i6656
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 03:08 PM   #4888
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That road was not planned as an E-route, E16 was only extended east into Sweden in 2012. I drove that road from Kongsvinger to Torsby in 2014, they were upgrading quite some sections of it. Traffic volumes are low though, only 1,200 vehicles per day near Kongsvinger, dropping to 700 vehicles per day near the Swedish border.

The rocky terrain also makes upgrades not as easy as the non-mountainous terrain suggests. It's not like Spain where they can build a wide straight road for 1,000 vehicles per day at a cost of under € 1 million/km.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 06:25 PM   #4889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That road was not planned as an E-route, E16 was only extended east into Sweden in 2012. I drove that road from Kongsvinger to Torsby in 2014, they were upgrading quite some sections of it. Traffic volumes are low though, only 1,200 vehicles per day near Kongsvinger, dropping to 700 vehicles per day near the Swedish border.

The rocky terrain also makes upgrades not as easy as the non-mountainous terrain suggests. It's not like Spain where they can build a wide straight road for 1,000 vehicles per day at a cost of under € 1 million/km.
Anyway, Norway assigned it to an E road, thus qualifying it as a main road. It is an example only. Other main roads are similar.

The countries to compare were Sweden and Finland, not Spain.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 10:01 PM   #4890
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Does Sweden have fjords and rugged mountains?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 11:01 PM   #4891
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Does Sweden have fjords and rugged mountains?
There a few fjord-type bays at the shore of Kattegat, and Sweden shares the Scandinavian mountain range with Norway. Why?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 11:04 PM   #4892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Anyway, Norway assigned it to an E road, thus qualifying it as a main road. It is an example only. Other main roads are similar.

The countries to compare were Sweden and Finland, not Spain.
You can not compare Norway with Sweden, its totally different. If You must compare Norway with something its better to compare with Switzerland, Austria and maybe also Slovenia. That countries are more similar to Norway.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 11:05 PM   #4893
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Quote:
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Does Sweden have fjords and rugged mountains?

No
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 11:44 PM   #4894
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You can not compare Norway with Sweden, its totally different. If You must compare Norway with something its better to compare with Switzerland, Austria and maybe also Slovenia. That countries are more similar to Norway.
Please walk the discussion backwards and find out that the scope of the discussion is the SE part of Norway being quite similar to the large areas in Sweden and Finland.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 12:08 AM   #4895
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Quote:
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Please walk the discussion backwards and find out that the scope of the discussion is the SE part of Norway being quite similar to the large areas in Sweden and Finland.

No, i dont think that part of Norway is. I still say that part also look more like Austria. And the more flat parts look maybe more like Slovenia.

Norway is special, and thay is the beauty with Norway.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #4896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The Norwegian rv92 meets Finland in Karigasniemi, not in Neiden. The road to Neiden is rv893. I presume you are referring to the latter one.

Anyway, the Finnish road 971 at the other side of the border was not a high-priority road to build either.
I thought so, too, as all sources (my maps, Google etc.) said exactly what you're saying, but driving there, it turned out that both the Norwegian 893 and the Finnish 971 had been renumbered...
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Old August 26th, 2017, 06:45 PM   #4897
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I thought so, too, as all sources (my maps, Google etc.) said exactly what you're saying, but driving there, it turned out that both the Norwegian 893 and the Finnish 971 had been renumbered...
Interesting to know. The change is nor widely advertized in Finland. One source says the date of change was Dec 7th, 2016.

That means that the Norwegian Rv92 has a gap of almost 200 kilometers. In addition, the road 92 is the only main road in Finland to run from a border crossing place to another one.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 07:31 PM   #4898
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I found this source:
Nykyisin tämän historiallisen väylän korvaa kantatie 92 Kaamanen – Näätämö. Tie ”rakennettiin” alun perin polkutienä 1940-luvun loppupuolella ja sitä on jatkossa parannettu seututieksi 1980 luvun puolivälissä. Tie muutettiin kantatieksi 7.12.2016.
https://lapintiestonvuosisata.com/20...inarijarvella/

The Norwegian vegkart is also updated with riksvei 92 to Neiden. https://www.vegvesen.no/vegkart/vegk...4903,7793819,9
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Old August 26th, 2017, 08:08 PM   #4899
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Construction update of Saggrenda bridge at E134 in Kongsberg.










https://www.vareveger.no/artikler/im...agrenda/404279
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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:41 PM   #4900
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When will they start building the tunnels on Rv556 in Bergen from Dolvik to the airport area, to connect with the other 2 already in place?
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