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Old September 12th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #4941
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Is it true the government is promising to use more of the Oil Fund to finance infrastructure (at the other end of PPP's, in a competitive manner)?
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Old September 12th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #4942
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There must be some sum of oil money. It is like every norwegian citizen has 1.5 million NOK in the bank
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Old September 12th, 2017, 12:28 PM   #4943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
The most problematic sections on Rv3 with regards to traffic flow, the Elverum area and the climb towards the highest point at Lonåsen (Tynset) will both soon be bypassed, on the former construction is starting as we speak. The remaining speed restrictions (which seems to be ignored by most trucks anyway) are not close to outweighing the about 40 km longer distance, and probably as important, 300 m larger climb, of E6. Both differences are about to increase somewhat with the aforementioned improvements of Rv3, btw. In addition, Rv3 is not as weather exposed as E6.
How much population does the E6 reach compared to Rv3?
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Old September 12th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #4944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is it true the government is promising to use more of the Oil Fund to finance infrastructure (at the other end of PPP's, in a competitive manner)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
There must be some sum of oil money. It is like every norwegian citizen has 1.5 million NOK in the bank
The use of money from the investment fund from oil income is limited irrespective of governments and for several reasons, eg to save money for a rainy day, but also to avoid the "Dutch disease", i.e. uncontrolled inflation. Officially, the government limit itself to take out maximum 3 % of the current 7.8 trillion NOK from the fund (836 billion euro) annually. Before 2017 the limit was in fact 4 % (irrespective of government). In practice, oil income corresponding to about 2.8 % of the fund was used on average in the 2012-2016 period, even if the economy had to be stimulated somewhat due to the drop in oil prices. In absolute terms, the use of oil money has increased lately, though, since the size of the fund has increased substantially.
https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/market-value/


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How much population does the E6 reach compared to Rv3?
I think you need to define what you mean here. If you mean "the number of people having the fastest way to Oslo", you can very roughly estimate that for the northern half of Oppland and the whole of Møre og Romsdal counties, E6 would be the fastest route, in total about 360 k people. For Rv 3, you might include Trøndelag and Nordland, in total about 700 k people. This estimate ignores people in northern Sogn & Fjordane, who probably will use E6, and the people in northernmost Møre og Romsdal, and perhaps also southern Troms, who may or may not use Rv 3 or Sweden.

However, the Gudbrandsdalen where E6 is running through is more densely populated than Østerdalen where Rv 3 is going, making the local traffic heavier on the southern (but not northern) part of E6 than the Rv 3 running in parallel.
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; September 12th, 2017 at 08:10 PM.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 09:12 PM   #4945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
However, the Gudbrandsdalen where E6 is running through is more densely populated than Østerdalen where Rv 3 is going, making the local traffic heavier on the southern (but not northern) part of E6 than the Rv 3 running in parallel.
This, plus the branch routes to the northwest, is the reason why E6 gets priority over Rv. 3 I think.

I believe there are only two or three villages with a population over 2,000 in Østerdalen north of Elverum, with little traffic using it from other regions except for Trondheim.

Along E6 you have regional centers and sizable towns like Moelv, Lillehammer, Ringebu, Vinstra, Otta, Dombås and Oppdal, in addition to branch routes to the northwest coast like Rv. 15, E136 and Rv. 70.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 09:43 PM   #4946
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In other words... Norwegian cities are have bad locations for a modern ground transportation network
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Old September 12th, 2017, 11:18 PM   #4947
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Well, yeah, none of the four largest cities of Norway are yet connected to each other by motorways....

It is perhaps a bit simplified to say that E6 is prioritized over Rv3. True, there is a big Nye Veier project extending the E6 motorway to Lillehammer, but further north the recent transport plan for the next 12 years was in fact quite disappointing, and between Otta and Ulsberg (where Rv3 and E6 meet), I am not aware of any major projects. On the other hand, the gradual improvement on Rv3 north of Elverum is planned to be continued over the next decade. Note that Lillehammer is approximately the same distance from Trondheim as Elverum.

(map of the Norwegian 2018—2029 road projects of the national transport plan, excluding Nye Veier projects.)


(Nye veier projects)

Personally, although I would prefer a large scale development of a motorway network, the current strategy which seems to be focusing on E6 Kolomoen-Lillehammer, Rv3 Kolomoen-Elverum, and E6 Ulsberg - Trondheim ( - Steinkjer) with regards to motorway developments, is probably more politically acceptable. Once these are completed, closing the remaining gaps will appear more realistic.

Ulsberg and Kolomoen are the northern and southern, respectively, termini of Rv3 where the route joins E6.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #4948
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Joberg Tunnel

The 2044 meter long Joberg Tunnel on Riksvei 13 between Granvin and Voss opened to traffic today. The tunnel was built to protect the road from rockslides and avalanches.

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Old September 16th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #4949
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I have mentioned the "Bedre Veier" (better roads) (www.bedrevei.no) organization a couple of times before. What I did not realize is that they actually made a complete road plan report (in Norwegian) earlier this year, with standard specifications, costs, benefits, environmental impact, urban transport, and rather detailed routes. In short, this organization seems surprisingly professional, with most of the people in the board being experienced professionals in the field. Hopefully, their visions will inspire the politicians even more ahead as the climate argument against roads is fading with the accelerating electrification of auto transportation ahead.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 03:42 PM   #4950
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Apart the fact that such a plan would be extremely unrealistic, does it say that motorway width will be from 17.5 to 21.5 meters??? That's extremely narrow. For example in Italy the MINIMUM width for motorways is 25 m, while for expressways is 22 m. Motorways that narrow had been built in mountanious areas in the 1960s and 1970s, but not anymore.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 03:51 PM   #4951
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It's doable if you reduce the shoulder to just a strip. I think this is a 21.5 m motorway (E6 along Mjøsa):


E6-67 by European Roads, on Flickr
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Old September 16th, 2017, 04:25 PM   #4952
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If I am not mistaken, that road is following the H8 standard , which in fact is only 20 m wide. The narrow width is permissible due to the relative low traffic volumes compared with continental motorways. Actually, Nye Veier, which builds motorways for the Norwegian government, is currently proposing 18.8 m for motorways with relatively light traffic. The advantage of building narrow motorways is that, for the most part, widening them later is possible if the traffic picks up. Realign a road with poor curvature is much more expensive. Note also that the motorway speed limit in Norway is only 110.

The Bedre Veier H3 has the following profile:
1—3.25—3.25—0.75—2—0.75—3.25—3.25—1
whereas the H4 has the following profile:
2—3.5—3.5—0.75—2—0.75—3.5—3.5—2

It has actually been built (much criticized) expressways with 16 m width in Norway, so everything is relative.

We are currently seeing the start of a revolution within individual travel (automation and electrification). Who knows which ramifications this will have for future road designs?

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; September 16th, 2017 at 04:51 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 05:17 PM   #4953
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Actually, in new SVV N100 proposal (road design manuals) all motorways AADT > 12.000 must be 23 m (21 m if difficult terrain and AADT < 20.000). Nye Veier might be allowed to build 18.8 m if AADT 6000-12.000, though.

Last edited by Agent 006; September 16th, 2017 at 05:48 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 05:45 PM   #4954
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That is exactly what Nye Veier is hoping, to have a new 18.8 m standard for 110 km/h at 6000—12000 AADT. They are also proposing 21.5 m above 12 000. In both cases the crash barrier will set some distance away from the edge of the asphalt such that there is room for emergency stops.

Both adjustments will improve the socioeconomic benefits of their portfolio, they claim. See their reply to the N100 proposal below.
http://www.nyeveier.no/wp-content/up...Veier-N100.pdf
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; September 16th, 2017 at 08:28 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 12:36 AM   #4955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
I have mentioned the "Bedre Veier" (better roads) (www.bedrevei.no) organization a couple of times before. What I did not realize is that they actually made a complete road plan report (in Norwegian) earlier this year, with standard specifications, costs, benefits, environmental impact, urban transport, and rather detailed routes. In short, this organization seems surprisingly professional, with most of the people in the board being experienced professionals in the field. Hopefully, their visions will inspire the politicians even more ahead as the climate argument against roads is fading with the accelerating electrification of auto transportation ahead.
Damn! I read Nye Veier, and had the most wonderful time thinking a government led organization could have visions. Especially the part about having a motorway up Østerdalen. Then I started reading the document and found it strange that Nye Veier had listened that much to Bedre Veier. Just to realize it was Bedre Veier all the time.

I agree a lot with them. But have some minor changes in my own network. The biggest one being a more direct route between Oslo and Stavanger.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 01:58 AM   #4956
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I guess Nye Veier will be happy to oblige if the government ask them to build the Bedre Veier plan ;-)
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Old September 17th, 2017, 02:37 AM   #4957
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I remember seeing this map here earlier, and still have a certain degree of skepticism about it, especially the northernmost parts.

Like separated carriageways on E6 all the way until Skibotn? A completely new road between Alta and Lakselv? A redesignated (assumingly all-year) main road through Ifjord instead of Tana valley?
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Old September 17th, 2017, 11:21 AM   #4958
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That is a long road.... They estimate that the total cost to realize their plan is 1.15 trillion NOK. Of this, 145 billion goes to E6 north of Steinkjer (1256 km). However, politically, in order to pull off something like this in Norway you need to throw some bones also to Northern Norway.

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Old September 19th, 2017, 08:01 PM   #4959
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E18 Larvik

The new Larvik Tunnel of E18 in Larvik is planned to open on 28 September. The sign says 2.8 km but Google Earth imagery suggests it's no more than 2.5 km even with a curve in mind.

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Old September 19th, 2017, 10:54 PM   #4960
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The Bedre Veier map is, of course, just a flight of fancy. Not mainly because of the absurd investments such projects would require, and the environmental impact that many new motorways/expressways would have, but because traffic never would warrant it. A few spot checks: E6 - Ballangen (south of Narvik) 1984, Trofors (south of Mosjøen) 1203, Snåsavatnet (north of Steinkjer) 3010, Dombås south 4122; E39 - Orkanger west 3700, south of Førde airport 2950, Eikefet tunnel 2500; Rv 52 Hemsedalsfjellet 1300; Rv 3 Koppang 2600; Rv 5 Sogndal north 2450; E134 Haukeli 1600... And so on and so forth (source: https://www.vegvesen.no/vegkart/). I'm all in favour of improving Norwegian roads considerably, but this reminds me of my map-drawing efforts in old NAF Veibøker when I was about ten.

Of course, some of these proposals will become reality given time, others are a question of political will, but the whole grid..? Please... As a side-note, one of the least unrealistic of the high-flying propositions is shortening the E6 through Finnmark, as the Arctic may open more with climate changes. In addition, it would not be exceptionally expensive to build roughly 100 kms of road through flat terrain. Environmental concerns are a different matter, though.
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