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Old November 6th, 2017, 10:28 PM   #5081
Galro
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It's Sichuan Road and Bridge Group that are constructing the Hålogaland Bridge too.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 10:37 PM   #5082
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I was not aware of that. Though apparently the Sichuan Road and Bridge Group contract is only for the steel components of the bridge. It has a 755 million NOK value compared to the 3.1 billion NOK overall project cost.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:43 PM   #5083
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The Norwegian newspaper VG had a big article on the surveilance and maintenance of Norwegian bridges today. Apparently, the quality system is not followed by the letter. 1 087 of 16 971* had faults that could affect traffic safety, load capacities, or both. Rules for inspection are broken for 50 % of the bridges. Of course, the newspaper probably make it look a bit worse than it actually is, as most likely Statens vegvesen has bent the rules a little to focus their limited resources on the bridges they deem to be at most risk. If you look into the details, a lot of the deviations are due to insufficient or broken railing etc, but for some integrity is an issue, like for the infamous, but carefully monitored, Sluppen bridge.
Article: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2017/de-fo.../inspeksjoner/
Interactive map: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2017/de-forsomte-broene/kart/



*There are more than 22000 public bridges in Norway by the way. The remaining ones I assume are primarily municipal ones, and I would be very surprised if the situation of those are any better.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 01:08 PM   #5084
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The westbound buslane on E18 Bærum will be turned back into a regular lane
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Old November 9th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #5085
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What a big surprise: traffic congestion worsened and buses were still stuck in traffic, but on a different location due to longer traffic jams. The decline in traffic due to the increased toll rates was also less than expected.

You often see a short-term decline in traffic after a significant increase of the toll rates has been implemented. This is usually widely reported in the media. But then traffic goes back to normal after a few months or a year. This is usually not reported in the media.
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Old November 12th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #5086
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Someone was very lucky going home from school in June, see video clip in this article: https://www.nrk.no/buskerud/foreldre...gol-1.13774865
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Old November 13th, 2017, 07:46 AM   #5087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You often see a short-term decline in traffic after a significant increase of the toll rates has been implemented. This is usually widely reported in the media. But then traffic goes back to normal after a few months or a year. This is usually not reported in the media.
...which implies the tolling authority can get away with charging a still-higher toll.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #5088
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Some official images from the new 8 km four-lane E6 construction zone south of Trondheim. I still cannot phatom how the morons running the city could decide to scale down the width of most of this highly trafficated road to save a few bucks. One consequence will be that the speed limit will be 80 km/h. To bad "Nye veier" did not get their hands on it. Nevertheless, the new road will of course be a huge improvement from the previous regularly jammed two-lane road. To be fully opened in 2019.





More images can be found on the project's facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/e6trondheimmelhus/
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:53 AM   #5089
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Some official images from the new 8 km four-lane E6 construction zone south of Trondheim. I still cannot phatom how the morons running the city could decide to scale down the width of most of this highly trafficated road to save a few bucks. One consequence will be that the speed limit will be 80 km/h. To bad "Nye veier" did not get their hands on it. Nevertheless, the new road will of course be a huge improvement from the previous regularly jammed two-lane road. To be fully opened in 2019.

More images can be found on the project's facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/e6trondheimmelhus/
I believe the world is full of such failed road projects where the cost got squeezed by 10% and the usability by 50 %.

One example is the Ring 2 of Helsinki, which is not a ring. The interchanges at both ends are sub-sub-standard.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 02:54 PM   #5090
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You are maybe right, but Norway has seemed to be more fond of such solutions than most other developed countries. Another victim of the budget cut was btw the E39/E6 interchange, which is part of this project. Whereas E6 itself finally will be grade separated there, the E39 traffic still have to enter E6 via a roundabout.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:32 PM   #5091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Some official images from the new 8 km four-lane E6 construction zone south of Trondheim. I still cannot phatom how the morons running the city could decide to scale down the width of most of this highly trafficated road to save a few bucks. One consequence will be that the speed limit will be 80 km/h. To bad "Nye veier" did not get their hands on it. Nevertheless, the new road will of course be a huge improvement from the previous regularly jammed two-lane road. To be fully opened in 2019.





More images can be found on the project's facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/e6trondheimmelhus/
Don`t know if the politicians is the right people to blame. They`ve probably been presented with a package on how to save some dimes. That package is developed by SVV and their consultants, and is quite typical when things gets to expensive compared to earlier calculations. There`s allways a cut-list.

Anyway, the speed limit seems to be 100 km/t from Melhus until Storler, right north of the new railway-bridge. From there, I think the speed-limit easily would have become 80 anyway, because of things like short distances between intersections combined with lots of local traffic mixed with long-distance traffic.

That being said, I`m very glad that the 1,5 meter wide shoulder on motorways seems to be over and out when the new normals is finalized. 1,5 meter has allways been too narrow for any vehicle (except bikes) to really get out of the way, especially where theres a crash-barrier. When the shoulder-line also often has been marked a bit out on the shoulder, to make a wider right lane (to reduce surface-maintenance, mainly because of lots of heavy vehicles in that lane), the shoulder is even narrower than 1,5 meter on a lot of those roads.
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Old November 16th, 2017, 12:40 AM   #5092
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Someone was very lucky going home from school in June, see video clip in this article: https://www.nrk.no/buskerud/foreldre...gol-1.13774865
As a kid I was always taught to look both ways before crossing the street. What are they teaching these idiot kids in Norway?
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Old November 17th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #5093
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The relevant rule of thumb in this case, though, would be "Do not cross the road before the bus has left the stop" (looking to the right would not have helped as the view of the bus was obscured by the bus.....)
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Old November 18th, 2017, 03:14 PM   #5094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsus View Post
Don`t know if the politicians is the right people to blame. They`ve probably been presented with a package on how to save some dimes. That package is developed by SVV and their consultants, and is quite typical when things gets to expensive compared to earlier calculations. There`s allways a cut-list.

Anyway, the speed limit seems to be 100 km/t from Melhus until Storler, right north of the new railway-bridge. From there, I think the speed-limit easily would have become 80 anyway, because of things like short distances between intersections combined with lots of local traffic mixed with long-distance traffic.

That being said, I`m very glad that the 1,5 meter wide shoulder on motorways seems to be over and out when the new normals is finalized. 1,5 meter has allways been too narrow for any vehicle (except bikes) to really get out of the way, especially where theres a crash-barrier. When the shoulder-line also often has been marked a bit out on the shoulder, to make a wider right lane (to reduce surface-maintenance, mainly because of lots of heavy vehicles in that lane), the shoulder is even narrower than 1,5 meter on a lot of those roads.
Those making the decisions should be able to see through this, the math is really not that hard. The difference between say 80 and 100 km/h is (1/80+1/100)x60x60=9 seconds. With 30 000 cars per day that becomes 9x30 000x365.25/60/60~=27 000 hours per year. Let's say the average hourly cost is about 17 euros (about half the average wage in Norway, a quite low cost considering that the average occupancy per car is 1.54), then 27 000 hours mean an annual cost of 466 000 euros per km. With say 5% discount rate and 50 years lifetime, this corresponds to approximately 9 M€ in NPV per km. I sincerely doubt that the savings per km caused by the 3 m reduction in width were even close. Widening the road later would be another story, though.

If they don't understand the math, they should at least ask critical question about how the savings in investment costs they demand impact the economy of the project for the society at large. Of course, there are also other considerations to take into account here, like ideology and the need to prioritize, but I personally think the most important reason is incompetence. Before the reduction in width I think the plan was to have 100 km/h here, btw, there are not that many ramps.

The main problem is that it is up to local politicians to make such decisions in Norway. They should have a say in where national infrastructure should be placed, but they should not have the final word, and certainly not when it comes to road standards.

We have another case where local politicians in the municipality just south of Trondheim, Melhus, may make a very bad decision next week. Nye Veier is responsible for building a new E6 motorway here, but has asked to have one of many interchanges of the municipality scrapped. This would mean that a village of Ler of around 500 people would have to drive a few km extra (following the current E6) before they enter the motorway. Hence, the local municipality may refuse this change of plans. The problem is that the cost of the interchange is estimated to be 400 MNOK (44 M€), and would hence significantly worsen the economy of this section and could lead to a delay of this project of national interest until 2035. There is an option for the state to overrun the municipality, but this option is rarely used in Norway.


Map of planned E6 south of Trondheim

Current E6 in Melhus municipality (in the village of Lundamo)
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Old November 19th, 2017, 12:24 AM   #5095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
The relevant rule of thumb in this case, though, would be "Do not cross the road before the bus has left the stop" (looking to the right would not have helped as the view of the bus was obscured by the bus.....)
Looking to the right and seeing a bus blocking your view means it's not safe to cross. You don't know what could be on the other side. Simple
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Old November 19th, 2017, 12:43 AM   #5096
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Looking to the right and seeing a bus blocking your view means it's not safe to cross. You don't know what could be on the other side. Simple
Kids less than 12 years tend to misunderstand even the most basic rules.

When I was a kid, the advice was: "look right then left then right once more". This led to a number of miserable accidents. Why? Because kids did not recognize the most important implicit rule: "If a vehicle approaches when you look on right or left, do not cross". When you advise kids, be as explicit as possible.

Basically, the IQ of a group of people is usually less than the average IQ of individual members to the group. The common formula is IQ[Group]<=max(IQ)/N where 'max(IQ)' is the highest individual IQ in the group and 'N' is the number of members in the group. Optimists use SQRT(N) as the divisor. This logic tells us that people tend to do more dumb things as a group than they would do as individuals. Please count the number of kids in the video.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 12:10 AM   #5097
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Yup. Again, kids do unfortunate, reckless and outright dangerous things without thinking over and over again, it's got nothing to do with nationality. Actually, in spite of often being narrow, dark, slippery, wet and generally not a very good environment for children, Norwegian roads kill and injure fewer children than roads in most other countries. Go figure...
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Old November 20th, 2017, 12:33 AM   #5098
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Kids less than 12 years tend to misunderstand even the most basic rules.

When I was a kid, the advice was: "look right then left then right once more". This led to a number of miserable accidents. Why? Because kids did not recognize the most important implicit rule: "If a vehicle approaches when you look on right or left, do not cross". When you advise kids, be as explicit as possible.

Basically, the IQ of a group of people is usually less than the average IQ of individual members to the group. The common formula is IQ[Group]<=max(IQ)/N where 'max(IQ)' is the highest individual IQ in the group and 'N' is the number of members in the group. Optimists use SQRT(N) as the divisor. This logic tells us that people tend to do more dumb things as a group than they would do as individuals. Please count the number of kids in the video.
In group people tend to pay less attention because they feel safer as they think someone else in the group is taking care.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #5099
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Those making the decisions should be able to see through this, the math is really not that hard. The difference between say 80 and 100 km/h is (1/80+1/100)x60x60=9 seconds. With 30 000 cars per day that becomes 9x30 000x365.25/60/60~=27 000 hours per year. Let's say the average hourly cost is about 17 euros (about half the average wage in Norway, a quite low cost considering that the average occupancy per car is 1.54), then 27 000 hours mean an annual cost of 466 000 euros per km. With say 5% discount rate and 50 years lifetime, this corresponds to approximately 9 M€ in NPV per km. I sincerely doubt that the savings per km caused by the 3 m reduction in width were even close. Widening the road later would be another story, though.

If they don't understand the math, they should at least ask critical question about how the savings in investment costs they demand impact the economy of the project for the society at large. Of course, there are also other considerations to take into account here, like ideology and the need to prioritize, but I personally think the most important reason is incompetence. Before the reduction in width I think the plan was to have 100 km/h here, btw, there are not that many ramps.

The main problem is that it is up to local politicians to make such decisions in Norway. They should have a say in where national infrastructure should be placed, but they should not have the final word, and certainly not when it comes to road standards.

We have another case where local politicians in the municipality just south of Trondheim, Melhus, may make a very bad decision next week. Nye Veier is responsible for building a new E6 motorway here, but has asked to have one of many interchanges of the municipality scrapped. This would mean that a village of Ler of around 500 people would have to drive a few km extra (following the current E6) before they enter the motorway. Hence, the local municipality may refuse this change of plans. The problem is that the cost of the interchange is estimated to be 400 MNOK (44 M€), and would hence significantly worsen the economy of this section and could lead to a delay of this project of national interest until 2035. There is an option for the state to overrun the municipality, but this option is rarely used in Norway.


Map of planned E6 south of Trondheim

Current E6 in Melhus municipality (in the village of Lundamo)
OTOH it would have been in the interests of Ler were the route into Trondheim at least six lanes wide as it's probably close enough to the city to generate development interest as long as the main road is not excessively narrow.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 09:08 PM   #5100
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In the political climate of Norway I think that would be impossibility in the foreseeable future. Even at the highly trafficated E18 western corridor other lanes stops at Sandvika today, 15 km from the downtown of the capital, and in the new plan for E18 six lanes only proceeds slightly longer (to Slependen, 18 km away). Although this may change in the decades ahead when zero-emmission cars becomes even more dominant, facilitating spare capacity for future car commuting would be an extremely hard sell in Norway.

The second argument may probably seem strange seen from the outside, but Norway is a country with relatively little cultivated area, which is shrinking by the day as most cities are located in valleys and along the coast where farming is the best. As most countries, Norway would like to be as self-sustained as possible when it comes to food and energy. Ler, and most of its surroundings, are in Norwegian terms prime farming area. Hence, it would be much better to grow the city in the forrested hills surrounding it, but even that is far from possible on a large scale in a climate where only densification of the current built-up areas is seen as politically correct.

High use of farm land us by the way an argument that is also used by the opponents of the Ler interchange, in addition to the high cost of the interchange, both partly due to the location of the new E6 on the opposite side of the valley (west) compared with the town of Ler (east). Hence, the centrist party (which used to be called the farmer's party) in the municipality is heavily against.

---

PS: Common sense actually prevailed in Melhus municipal council, with the majority by only one vote decided to allow Nye Veier to build the new E6 without the Ler connection, under the condition that they build the road within 2030 at the latest. Nye Veier has said that they may finish earlier than this, actually the full 71 km Melhus - Ulsberg within 2027. I doubt the condition of Melhus has much legal or practical significance, though.
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