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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:21 PM   #5141
ChrisZwolle
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E18 Aust-Agder

Toll collection on E18 in Aust-Agder will end on 15 January 2018. There are three toll stations which collect 15, 30 and 15 NOK. The toll rates were already cut in half on two locations in 2012.

The toll stations are indicated with a 'B' (bompenger) on the map:
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:54 PM   #5142
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Well there is the cost of running the vehicle.

EL: 1kr~1kwh. 1kwh~5km driving
0.2kr per km

Diesel: 14kr/litre 1litre~20km driving
0.7kr per km

Also there will be different tolls soon enough. Hybrids will be priced as petrol, slightly cheaper than diesel, for now. But there is a general anxiety that non-hybrids will get restricted/tolled further in the future.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 10:55 AM   #5143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Well there is the cost of running the vehicle.

EL: 1kr~1kwh. 1kwh~5km driving
0.2kr per km

Diesel: 14kr/litre 1litre~20km driving
0.7kr per km

Also there will be different tolls soon enough. Hybrids will be priced as petrol, slightly cheaper than diesel, for now. But there is a general anxiety that non-hybrids will get restricted/tolled further in the future.


Which is bad news for many families, I have three kids we live in a rural area with piss all public transport, we use our cars a lot, there simply aren't that many choices available for a family our size if you want to buy a hybrid vehicle, they are either SUV's Audi Q7, Volvo XC90, BMW X5, or they are small 5 door hatchs. The Volvo V90 T8 would be nice but that's an 800,000 nok vehicle, the hybrid 5 Series and E Class don't come as wagons. It's slim pickings, the govt just loves to punish people for wanting to move around, in this respect the current blue govt as as bad as the previous red govt.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 11:48 AM   #5144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbicide View Post
Car sales data (or more accurately registrations) for 2017 were announced today. Zero emission vehicles (the vast majority electric) had a share of 20.9%, while hybrids accounted for 31.1%, petrol 24.7% and diesel 23.1%.

Top 10 selling cars:

1. Volkswagen Golf
2. BMW i3
3. Toyota Rav4
4. Tesla Model X
5. Volkswagen Passat
6. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
7. Toyota Yaris
8. Tesla Model S
9. Skoda Octavia
10. Toyota C-HR


Crazy the i3 is junk, it's range is pathetic and it's downright scary to drive in winter conditions, it's like driving an old 911, with instand torgue at zero RPM the back end comes around so quick you need F1 driver reflexes to catch it.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 04:35 PM   #5145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Well there is the cost of running the vehicle.

EL: 1kr~1kwh. 1kwh~5km driving
0.2kr per km

Diesel: 14kr/litre 1litre~20km driving
0.7kr per km
The extremely low electricity prices in Norway help reduce the running cost of electric cars compared to other European countries.

In Norway, the electricity price is about € 0.09 per kWh, including taxes and grid rent. In the Netherlands, it is closer to € 0.22 per kWh, excluding grid rent. In Germany, it is around € 0.29 per kWh.

So the cost is 2.5 - 3 times higher, which pretty much eliminates any running cost advantage.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 07:35 PM   #5146
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A rockslide has blocked Fv. 53 near Årdalstangen (Sogn og Fjordane).

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Old January 5th, 2018, 01:57 AM   #5147
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Construction on the Rogfast project has officially begun.

More info in Norwegian here and here.

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Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Construction have now officially begun and the first blast have been made.


http://www.bygg.no/article/1338999
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Old January 5th, 2018, 07:07 PM   #5148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The extremely low electricity prices in Norway help reduce the running cost of electric cars compared to other European countries.

In Norway, the electricity price is about € 0.09 per kWh, including taxes and grid rent. In the Netherlands, it is closer to € 0.22 per kWh, excluding grid rent. In Germany, it is around € 0.29 per kWh.

So the cost is 2.5 - 3 times higher, which pretty much eliminates any running cost advantage.
Not only is electricity inexpensive in Norway, you can charge your car for free at public charging stations, and these are often available for plug-in hybrids as well.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 03:40 PM   #5149
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Personally, I did not choose an electric last time I purchased a car, as we need the car for quite a lot of long distance travel. We could of course have invested in a second car for local travel, but since both my wife and I commute by bike it would be a waste. However, there is no doubt in my mind that electric cars are the future. In the short term perhaps mainly to reduce local pollution, but in the long run it is the only way to eliminate CO2 emissions from transportation as the world's electricity production becomes cleaner.

On a different note: Nye Veier published a revised priority list right before Christmas. The top prioritation for new projects are still:
  1. E6 Ranheim – Åsen (north-east of Trondheim)
  2. E39 Kristiansand vest-Lyngdal vest (Røyskår)
  3. E18 Langangen -Dørdal (between Oslo and Kristiansand)

It should be noted that E18 Arendal - Tvedestrand, which is also on Oslo - Kristiansand, but closer to Kristiansand, that has been u/c for a year, has lower net present value than these prioritized sections for new projects. However, construction will probably start on all prioritized projects within 2019. The other 7 projects in the Nye Veier portfolio are still under optimization with regards to cost/benefit. More details can be found in the following Norwegian presentation:
http://www.nyeveier.no/wp-content/up...17-12-18-1.pdf
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Old January 8th, 2018, 12:09 AM   #5150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbicide View Post
Not only is electricity inexpensive in Norway, you can charge your car for free at public charging stations, and these are often available for plug-in hybrids as well.
Not really, there are few free ones (outside Oslo), and the ones that are free are very slow, usually 8amp (actually those - schuko - is illegal for new charging points). Public charging is quite expensive, for example if you go for 50kw, they are usually 2.5nok per minute working out at rougly the same cost for diesel, however in the winter you might only get half the chargers speed - meaning you are paying twice than diesel.

On a side note, from this year public parking will need to provide charging spaces under the new law:

Quote:
§ 35.Lademulighet
På parkeringsområdet skal det tilbys lademulighet for ladbar motorvogn på et tilstrekkelig antall parkeringsplasser, det vil si at det i alminnelighet til enhver tid er en ledig plass med lademulighet. Virksomheten har likevel ikke plikt til å tilby lademulighet på mer enn seks prosent av det totale antallet plasser.

Statens vegvesen kan gjøre unntak fra kravet i første ledd dersom investerings- eller driftskostnadene blir urimelig høye.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 08:53 PM   #5151
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all the free chargers in Molde bacame pay chargers last year, you no longer get free parking and the Atlantic Harbour Tunnel now charges for electric cars, which has pissed off a lot of people living on Averøy who commute into Kristiansund. Tough IMO you use the road you should pay for it like everyone else.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 09:02 PM   #5152
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A while ago there was an article in the English or American media that said that toll-free rides for electric cars threatened the financial viability of some tunnel projects.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 12:46 AM   #5153
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It is why the new rules state that toll companies may charge electric cars half the price of an ICE.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:34 AM   #5154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The extremely low electricity prices in Norway help reduce the running cost of electric cars compared to other European countries.

In Norway, the electricity price is about € 0.09 per kWh, including taxes and grid rent. In the Netherlands, it is closer to € 0.22 per kWh, excluding grid rent. In Germany, it is around € 0.29 per kWh.

So the cost is 2.5 - 3 times higher, which pretty much eliminates any running cost advantage.
Comparing the running cost only usually does not make any sense.

A more useful approach is to estimate the cost of ownership, which typically is (capex+opex)/time. Typical cost elements are fuel, maintenance, reparations, tires, taxes, fees, insurance, subsidies, interest and depreciation. Usually, one size does not fit all.

The statistics tell that the electric cars seem to depreciate substantially faster than traditional ones. This alone potentially is a more significant cost factor than differences in the fuel cost.

Subsidies tend to cease when the market share of the subsidized things grows.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #5155
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Quote:
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A while ago there was an article in the English or American media that said that toll-free rides for electric cars threatened the financial viability of some tunnel projects.
Just increase the toll for traditional vehicles.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 12:23 PM   #5156
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Just increase the toll for traditional vehicles.
Which lowers the number of cars travelling through the tunnel, again putting at risk the financial sustainability of the project.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 12:47 PM   #5157
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Which lowers the number of cars travelling through the tunnel, again putting at risk the financial sustainability of the project.
Yes, it's true, but in the long term it would increase the demand of electric cars (if a large number of toll tunnels, highways, or parking lots do the same).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 01:25 PM   #5158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, it's true, but in the long term it would increase the demand of electric cars (if a large number of toll tunnels, highways, or parking lots do the same).

The problem is electric cars can only meet some of the demands of motorists, there aren't electric utes, vans, trucks, station wagons, so you're discriminating against a large percentage of the public who use motor vehicles.


I'm more than willing to go electric, but at the moment the only electric vehicle that would suit my needs is the Tesla Model X, which is a piece of junk, it's badly made, very expensive and can't do everything a traditional diesel powered SUV or large stationwagon can do. It can't tow without impacting it's range significantly, ditto for putting on a roof box, bike or canoe carriers on the roof.

Last edited by Rob73; January 9th, 2018 at 01:35 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 01:28 PM   #5159
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And who will then pay all this infrastructure?
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Old January 10th, 2018, 01:48 AM   #5160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob73 View Post
The problem is electric cars can only meet some of the demands of motorists, there aren't electric utes, vans, trucks, station wagons, so you're discriminating against a large percentage of the public who use motor vehicles.


I'm more than willing to go electric, but at the moment the only electric vehicle that would suit my needs is the Tesla Model X, which is a piece of junk, it's badly made, very expensive and can't do everything a traditional diesel powered SUV or large stationwagon can do. It can't tow without impacting it's range significantly, ditto for putting on a roof box, bike or canoe carriers on the roof.
I do not feel discriminated, but you pretty much sums up why I did not end up with an electric car last time. Nevertheless, I believe electric cars are the future, and Musk certainly deserves some praise for being visionary. Too bad he scrapped battery switch, though, it would have eliminated the "range fear" associated with electric cars.

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; January 10th, 2018 at 09:12 AM.
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