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Old May 19th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #621
Ingenioren
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Can't the counties simply outsource the planning to private engineering companies?

This article claims the reform is a way of avoiding tunnel-regulations from EU:

http://www.abcnyheter.no/node/89036
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Old May 19th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Also, it would break the current assymmetry in PT funding, where the national government today plays a major role running and subsidizing NSB PT in the capital area, but is absent in local traffic in most of the rest of the country.
Where do you get this from? It is correct that it is the government through Samferdselsdepartementet that orders train traffic/routes from NSB, but the subsidizing of NSB's original price-level is covered by Akershus county (+some from Oslo too) through the public transport company Ruter# AS.

About the county responsibility, I suggest counties to start making transportplans like Oslopakkene, preferably with multiple counties cooperating to tie regions better together. That's my vision.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norsko View Post
Ingenioren: Great to finally see some good shots of one of our motorways, this is rare to find on the web. Ever wondering about showing some of the signshots here http://www.brombeer.net/signs/ ? (hint hint )
Norway's been added !
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Old May 20th, 2009, 01:55 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Can't the counties simply outsource the planning to private engineering companies?
It does not help with good advisors if the management is unprofessional and without longterm strategy, which has mostly been the case in the counties.
Quote:
This article claims the reform is a way of avoiding tunnel-regulations from EU:

http://www.abcnyheter.no/node/89036
I do not think this is the motivation for the reform. At least Vegvesenet was against it.
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Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
Where do you get this from? It is correct that it is the government through Samferdselsdepartementet that orders train traffic/routes from NSB, but the subsidizing of NSB's original price-level is covered by Akershus county (+some from Oslo too) through the public transport company Ruter# AS.
This is getting off topic. I have tried to confirm your claim, but I have not suceeded.

What is for everybody to read is the transport chapters of the national budget of Norway. I don't bother to translate as this is hardly interesting for foreigners:

NSB (subsidies for the national railway company, and except the two latter posts mostly support to south-eastern Norway):
  • Nærtrafikk med om lag 840 mill. kr (mostly Oslo-area)
  • InterCitytrafikk med om lag 220 mill. kr
  • Region- og matetrafikk med om lag 225 mill. kr
  • Gjøvikbanen 75 mill. kr
  • Nattog med om lag 155 mill. kr
  • Fjerntrafikk på Nordlandsbanen (Trondheim – Bodø) med om lag 70 mill. kr.
(Trondheim-Bodø is the only long distance train that receives any direct subsidies)

Sum 1 724 million (including some other posts, I assume)

Jernbaneverket (mostly investments which are almost entirely in the Oslo-area): 7 073 million

Sum government railway funding 8 835 million


From Ruter's budget I can read that they pay 505 million for ticket-cooperation with NSB, but nowhere in neither the transport budget or anywhere else in the national budget or in the budget of NSB or Ruter can I find any hint that these money partly reimburses the national money (do you have any source for this?). In any case, 505 million is a far cry from the 8.8 billion that is the real cost of running the railway.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 11:33 AM   #625
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Design of the new intersection for E6 North at Dal, opens in November:


http://www.eub.no/nyheter/article4344009.ece
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Old May 20th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post

2. In the beginning, at least, the great majority of roads where the speed were reduced from 90 to 80 were motortrafikkvei/Autostrasse/expressways (E6 Østfold, Gardermoen-Lillehammer, Trondheim-Stjørdal, various sections E18, E39 Klett-Orkanger etc. etc.), whereas the speeed on other roads, like E6 Dovre, rv3 Østerdalen and many sections in Northern Norway, were allowed to keep their 90-limit.
Never been 90 km/h at E 39 Klett - Orkanger. According to the regulations it's okey to have 90 km/h on a 8,5 meter wide road, but not on a 10 meter wide road.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 04:01 PM   #627
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Imo. the roads with rumlefelt should get back their 90km/h:



Are there any roads at all in the west that are 90km/h (Except E39 motorway in Stavanger)? In the North there are many 90 stretches on E6, even on parts to narrow for a yellow line.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Never been 90 km/h at E 39 Klett - Orkanger.
What I did not bothered to write was that Klett-Orkanger was as an "old-fashioned" Motorvei B with 90, but the new regulations were introduced before the road was completed, so the change was on paper only.
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According to the regulations it's okey to have 90 km/h on a 8,5 meter wide road, but not on a 10 meter wide road.
Do they really say so? At least the sections of Rv 3 that quite recently were 90 were mostly less than 8.5 m wide, and my guess is that the same is the case with some of the 90-zones of northern Norway. It kind of makes sense, though. Everything else being equal, a road of width 7 m with less than 1000 AADT (meaning it goes mostly through desolate areas) is probably safer than a 10 m wide rode with 15 000 AADT.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 01:51 AM   #629
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I don't think there are any 90 km/h roads except the motorway in Rogaland, there was some (5?) years ago, but it's "nerfed" to 80 km/h now!
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Old May 24th, 2009, 03:10 PM   #630
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Some renders of Ring 3, Sinsen the tunnel will be ready in 2013. The intersection in front has been there for a long time, now the "motorway" goes above ground in the same route:


Large:
http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=169147



More:
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter...%B8rentunnelen
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Old May 24th, 2009, 03:45 PM   #631
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The cylinder there, is it a ventilation tower?
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Old May 24th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #632
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Yes, there will be one in each end Hopefully these towers will interfear with highrise plans at Økern, i think not since Vegvesenet themselves modelled in a few highrises in their study.
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Old May 24th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Statens Vegvesen should update their model tools. Those bussheds were only used in Akershus, and mostly from the mid-nineties/early 2000s.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #634
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I had the pleasure of driving the new E16 yesterday - very goodlooking piece of road, unfortunatly it has only 80km/h and not motorway status, not even the motortraficway status, altough mopeds are banned from it, so what's the difference really?

I took these while driving myself, so they are not that good.

I like all them yellow flowers along the road. This is accessing the road from new intersection with Rv160:


The road is mostly tunnels, they haven't done the "fake sky" - black top in these. Looks better when it's white imo.


On the other side, the road will maybe not be given motorway status because of the small shoulders? Altough E18 trough Asker also have these.


One-way exit to Isi, the exit-numbers will be continous with those on E18 from Oslo.


Didn't bother to make a complete intersection here:


New 2-lane bridge at the northern end of the road, i wonder why not 4 lanes.. :
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:41 AM   #635
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Wow, that is a big question, why not 4 lanes all the way? This E16 over sollihøgda is always congested in the rush-hours. I bet it wont take long until they find this out, and lots of money will be used on expanding it...

I may try the new road myself next weekend
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Old May 28th, 2009, 12:52 PM   #636
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I would guess they will be building another bridge next to this one when the development continues, so that the bridge in the picture is used for two lanes in the same direction.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
On the other side, the road will maybe not be given motorway status because of the small shoulders? Altough E18 trough Asker also have these.
These crashbarriers don't look solid at all. Are they abundant in Norway?
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Old May 29th, 2009, 01:12 AM   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
I had the pleasure of driving the new E16 yesterday - very goodlooking piece of road, unfortunatly it has only 80km/h and not motorway status, not even the motortraficway status, altough mopeds are banned from it, so what's the difference really?

On the other side, the road will maybe not be given motorway status because of the small shoulders? Altough E18 trough Asker also have these.
This looks like S7:

followed by S5:


The four lane (S7) part might not be motorway because it too short, or the curvature is not good enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
New 2-lane bridge at the northern end of the road, i wonder why not 4 lanes.. :
This is Norway, remember?

Technically, though, Vegvesenet may have done the right thing. S5 should according to the standard be used up to 12 000 AADT. Currently Solliehøgda has around 10 500, probably it was even lower when the construction began. Now, Vegvesenet is supposed to build with a capacity enough for 20 years (or was it 30?), but we all know how the Norwegian government always predict ultralow traffic growth. And the result? As NorthStart already has said, an uneccessarily expensive expansion some time in the future when the traffic is way above 12 000.
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These crashbarriers don't look solid at all. Are they abundant in Norway?
I have seen them some places, but they are not that common yet, but I bet Ingeniøren has the latest on the Norwegian road authorities whims regarding crash barriers.....
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Old May 29th, 2009, 02:26 AM   #639
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I'm so annoyed that they keep building narrow shoulder motorways. I don't know what "ÅDT" (Norw. abr. for average daily traffic) is for this road, but there are roads that have 30-40k now and increasing (such as the new E39 in Sandnes), and they don't construct wide shoulder. Really annoying!
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Old May 29th, 2009, 08:22 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
The four lane (S7) part might not be motorway because it too short, or the curvature is not good enough?


This is Norway, remember?

Technically, though, Vegvesenet may have done the right thing. S5 should according to the standard be used up to 12 000 AADT. Currently Solliehøgda has around 10 500, probably it was even lower when the construction began. Now, Vegvesenet is supposed to build with a capacity enough for 20 years (or was it 30?), but we all know how the Norwegian government always predict ultralow traffic growth. And the result? As NorthStart already has said, an uneccessarily expensive expansion some time in the future when the traffic is way above 12 000.
This road was planed before the new relugations. Back then you were suppose to plan only with the traffic in the opening year. And the traffic between Isi and Bjørum was estimated to 9200 today and therefor is only 2-lane. Yet another great example of Norwegian long therm planning. Over the whole route they are also only estimating with 1% annual growth. So that's why it's only a narrow motorway and not a full size one.

We should sit down and ask ourself what transportation network we want in 2050. That's 41 years left. In those years we should be able to both build a great road network and a great highspeed railway network. And it should handle traffic high enough as if we were 10 million people in this country. We are the richest country in the world with alot of oil, gas and actually massive amounts of coal benith the oil. Estimated 3000 billion tons coal in the Norwegian sea, Estimated 900 billion known tons in the rest of the world. We won't get poor for a long time.

And when cars become environmental friendly in the future, activists can't use the environmental card anymore. And when that time comes we need a infrastructure that can handle the traffic.
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