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Old May 29th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #641
Ingenioren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic View Post
These crashbarriers don't look solid at all. Are they abundant in Norway?
Don't worry, they are fine...
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Old May 29th, 2009, 02:35 PM   #642
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For that 2-lane section; if it's freeflowing, up to 25.000 shouldn't be too big a problem. It's different if it has roundabouts or traffic lights.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #643
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There are a couple of two-lane stretches with 25 000 and above in Norway, but they do not work very well during rush hour. However, the Norwegian standards, is, as far as I understand, (Kjello0 correct me if I say something wrong) mostly set from safety concerns. Between 8 000 and 12 000, the number of fatalities from head-on crashes really start to take off, and that is why highways with AADT numbers in this range are now built with dividers. However, a divided road with just one lane in each direction has some clear disadvantages. One of the biggest drawbacks is that it easily gets blocked, for instance when a truck brakes down. In addition it is close to impossible for emergency vehicles to get through. In addition Norwegian roads can be winding, hilly and slippery, which probably reduces the capacity compared with a highway in say Netherlands. In addition, on some Norwegian roads have a very uneven temporal traffic distribution. A lot of Norwegians commute quite far on a weekly basis, and/or have holiday homes in the mountains or near the coast somewhere. This means that a very large share of the traffic on some highways is consentrated to just Friday and Sunday afternoon, and at the beginning and the end of holidays. Finally, four lane opens up for higher speed limits and less breaking/acceleration. The former is quite important in a long distance country like Norway, the latter is important in order to reduce emissions.
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; May 30th, 2009 at 12:46 AM.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 03:28 AM   #644
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The number of fatalities from head-on crashes actually takes of from 4000 AADT. But the authorities think it's enough with rumble from 4000 to 8000 AADT. This becouse it will cost to much to make the roads wide enough for barriers, and the money saved on deaths and accidents don't defend the costs. This even though they got a ambition of zero deaths and fatal injuries from car accidents.

Tomorrow I will try to take some pictures of the ongoing building of new E 39 from Rendalen in Møre og Romsdal to Staurset in Sør-Trøndelag. Supposed to be finished october 2010. What's really anoying is that the stretches next to the new part also is outdatet. They are mostly 6 meters wide but won't be upgraded untill after 2015. So when they are finished this time they leave for 5 years before they return.


The new part had a really bad standard and most of it was under 5 meter wide. One part was as narrow as 3,3 meters. The traffic was only 750 AADT but that's becouse most people don't dare to drive there. It's also cheaper to drive via Dombås and Oppdal as there are two ferries and three toll roads on E 39 before and after the new part.



Trondheim - Kristiansund
E 39 - 192,5 km - 3:05 hours. (One ferry, three toll roads)
Via Surnadal - 209,4 km - 3:27 hours (One ferry, three toll roads)
Via Oppdal - 293,5 km - 4:24 hours (One toll road)

Trondheim - Molde
E 39 - 216,4 km - 3:24 hours (One ferry, three toll roads)
Via Surnadal - 233,3 km - 3:46 hours (One ferry, three toll roads)
Via Oppdal - 276,9 km - 4:08 hours (Nothing)

Trondheim - Ålesund
E 39 - 284,3 km - 4:57 hours (Two ferries, three toll roads)
Via Surnadal - 301,2 hours - 5:19 hours (Two ferries, three toll roads)
Via Dombås - 422,9 km - 6:05 hours (Nothing)

A truck driving from Ålesund to Trondheim would save 1671 kr or about 200 € by driving via Dombås instead of E 39.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 07:12 AM   #645
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Does anyone know what type of profile and specs a road will get if it's built after H2 standards?
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:03 AM   #646
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I would certainly take the ferries from Møre to Trondheim if they take as shorter time as you say, those are relaxing time from the drive, and you can take something to eat and enjoy the views Also, the Dombås road means crossing 2 high mountainpasses... But i agree the E39 is shockingly bad standard in many places as most West-Norway roads... Very exotic and cool as a tourist, but nightmare for those depending on it.

H2 means "Hovedveg i middels tett bebyggelse." :
http://www.vegvesen.no/s/bransjekont...yggelse_H2.htm
http://www.vegvesen.no/s/bransjekont...rrprofilet.htm
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Old May 30th, 2009, 04:30 PM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
The new part had a really bad standard and most of it was under 5 meter wide. One part was as narrow as 3,3 meters. The traffic was only 750 AADT but that's becouse most people don't dare to drive there. It's also cheaper to drive via Dombås and Oppdal as there are two ferries and three toll roads on E 39 before and after the new part.
And I guess that's reason enough for Statens Vegvesen and our friends in the financial/transportation ministries to keep neglecting it. Embarassing!
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Old May 30th, 2009, 07:07 PM   #648
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Ådt is often low one these roads, but they are very significant in connecting different parts of the country, especially for industry and commerce troughout the regions...
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Old May 30th, 2009, 10:50 PM   #649
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hmmm, for one of the richest nation on earth I expected a much larger, complex and attractive highways.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:02 PM   #650
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One of the richest in GDP per capita, yes, but road building is expensive in mountains and labor cost can easily be doubled that of USA.

Don't get me wrong, we could afford extreme scale motorways, so I don't know why they aren't built. But it looks like our socialistic regime are finally realizing that we need better ways to save the environment and human lives.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:05 PM   #651
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Well. USA is rich and is one of the most polluted countries in the world. Why does a rich country have to create highways?

Norway is just a hilly country. The only reasonable thing to do here, is to extend the railway system and improve existing roads. Money can be spent on much different stuff. I don't really want 8 lane highways in Norway and I doubt that other Norwegians want that too.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:12 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
And I guess that's reason enough for Statens Vegvesen and our friends in the financial/transportation ministries to keep neglecting it. Embarassing!
I didn't quite understand if you thought it was a bad thing that they use money on a new road or if you thought they should have done it earlier.

The main reason they havn't done it earlier is becouse there has been relative low number of injuries despite the low standard. Actually only 6 fatal injuries and zero deaths between 1997 and 2004. But that's due to the low AADT. And the low AADT is becouse of the low standard. When the whole stretch from Orkanger to Halsa is finished the traffic will probably be atleast the double. But this won't happen until 2020 earliest.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:26 PM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Well. USA is rich and is one of the most polluted countries in the world. Why does a rich country have to create highways?

Norway is just a hilly country. The only reasonable thing to do here, is to extend the railway system and improve existing roads. Money can be spent on much different stuff. I don't really want 8 lane highways in Norway and I doubt that other Norwegians want that too.
please stop being delusional and get off your high horse. it has nothing to do with USA. it's about providing the public with the best service. having great highways benefits everyone. you can hate the US all you want but pick your reasons. some of the "highways" in this thread are laughable. so small, narrow and crowded. cars need to move freely and that's not a US tradition. all the self righteousness aside let's try to apply common sense where it's needed.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:27 PM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-Lion View Post
One of the richest in GDP per capita, yes, but road building is expensive in mountains and labor cost can easily be doubled that of USA.

Don't get me wrong, we could afford extreme scale motorways, so I don't know why they aren't built. But it looks like our socialistic regime are finally realizing that we need better ways to save the environment and human lives.
I agree. Norway is capable of doing great things. infrastructure is really important and it's time they realized that.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #655
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edit: I realized that you didn't reply to me in the other post! My bad sorry. I do totally agree with your reply to the other guy here tho!

Original post:
Hi man, I "love" USA.

It's only in the last 10-20 years Norway has become really rich, but we are not used to spend a lot of money on big stuff, so we save them and lose them on stock exchange.

But it's easier to build roads with permissive governments, flat terrain and cheaper labor.

Last edited by Red-Lion; May 30th, 2009 at 11:53 PM. Reason: I suck x2
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Old May 31st, 2009, 01:05 AM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike7743 View Post
hmmm, for one of the richest nation on earth I expected a much larger, complex and attractive highways.
We expect it as well

Unfortunatly we're far behind comparable nations as far as a proper highway network is concerned. Four lane roads on the main stretches between the biggest cities (or should I say towns) would suffice.

However, with a low population scattered over a big country I would rather prioritize a high speed rail network right now. But frankly we need both. Like right now...
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Old May 31st, 2009, 01:37 AM   #657
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A good railway system would cost tens of times more than a good motorway system, and would still give a lot less flexibility.

I would love to see more light rails, and generally more railways in Norway. But as you said, we need both!

Should send our prisoners to good old schooling with forced labour building railway all the way to Kirkenes, and it should be the only way to get reduced the prison time!
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Old May 31st, 2009, 02:42 AM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Well. USA is rich and is one of the most polluted countries in the world. Why does a rich country have to create highways?

Norway is just a hilly country. The only reasonable thing to do here, is to extend the railway system and improve existing roads.
What? Extending the railway system is like throwing money in the toilet. North of Steinkjer railways is only good for freight transport. South of Steinkjer only minor extensions can be defended. A good highway network will benefit everyone and everything that demand transportation i Norway. A railway won't.
Just to give a example. Why should we have a railway, if we don't have roads to drive to the stations? It's possible to run a country by only using roads. It's not possible to run a country by only using railways. The flexibility of roads is so much higher than with railways.

Note that highways is not the same as motorways. The Norwegian word for Highways is Stamveier. Meaning roads between important destinations, such as cities.
Pr 2004 the Norwegian Highway network looked like this.


The american word for motorways is freeways. Motortrafikkveier is also freeways as they got controlled-access and thereby free flow.
Norway needs a good highway network. And most of that network should be freeways.

And when we are done building the highway network we could start building railways were it's needed.

Last edited by Kjello0; May 31st, 2009 at 06:19 PM.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 06:01 AM   #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmiDelf View Post
Well. USA is rich and is one of the most polluted countries in the world. Why does a rich country have to create highways?

Norway is just a hilly country. The only reasonable thing to do here, is to extend the railway system and improve existing roads. Money can be spent on much different stuff. I don't really want 8 lane highways in Norway and I doubt that other Norwegians want that too.
I think 4-lane highways would suffice in Norway.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 02:29 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by Red-Lion View Post
A good railway system would cost tens of times more than a good motorway system
Ehh....No. Should be around the same per kilometer as a four lane road.
And it would take you from Oslo to Bergen, Trondheim or Stavanger in half the time it would take you to drive on a proper motorway.
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