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Old May 31st, 2009, 03:25 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grauthue View Post
Ehh....No. Should be around the same per kilometer as a four lane road.
And it would take you from Oslo to Bergen, Trondheim or Stavanger in half the time it would take you to drive on a proper motorway.
Well, I was referring to a railway system covering all of Norway. Compared to already existing roads.



Kjello0:
I think it's more correct to translate highways into "Norwegian national roads", basically the european routes and the "riksvei"s (national routes). But yes, highway does not mean motorway.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 04:57 PM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Ådt is often low one these roads, but they are very significant in connecting different parts of the country, especially for industry and commerce troughout the regions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
I didn't quite understand if you thought it was a bad thing that they use money on a new road or if you thought they should have done it earlier.

The main reason they havn't done it earlier is becouse there has been relative low number of injuries despite the low standard. Actually only 6 fatal injuries and zero deaths between 1997 and 2004. But that's due to the low AADT. And the low AADT is becouse of the low standard. When the whole stretch from Orkanger to Halsa is finished the traffic will probably be atleast the double. But this won't happen until 2020 earliest.
In my opinion, for "Stamveger" ÅDT shouldn't be something you look at. Every road in this country that is a part of Stamvegnettet should have 2 lanes or more, no questions asked. They should also be completely free to drive on, no toll booths or expensive ferries at all. That would be the only way we can support the scattered way of living and the industrial/economical network we have in this country.
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Last edited by IceCheese; May 31st, 2009 at 05:54 PM.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 05:19 PM   #663
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I think toll should be concentrated to cities or rail-corridors, basicly only where there are good alternatives - also tolls could be used to prevent unwanted road-use. My concern is with the narrow non-yellow stripe highways, and troubled mountain-passes aswell as good bypasses leading trough trafic outside of the cities primarily, then we could start working on solving issues in the cities without concern to this trafic. I also think that it's a shame that rail and buses is so expensive - here we can learn from US, one can say a lot about US public transport, but atleast it's dirt-cheap
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Old May 31st, 2009, 05:22 PM   #664
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My concern is with the narrow non-yellow stripe highways,
That's what I was saying. The roads that don't have two lanes...
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Old May 31st, 2009, 05:40 PM   #665
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^ I sometimes agree with a small portion of what you say, you know

When it comes to mountains making roads to expensive, that is just not right. buying of farmlands or peoples houses are more expensive.... Also the rock from the tunnels provides roadbuilders with good fundaments for the road elsewhere...
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Old May 31st, 2009, 06:13 PM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grauthue View Post
Ehh....No. Should be around the same per kilometer as a four lane road.
And it would take you from Oslo to Bergen, Trondheim or Stavanger in half the time it would take you to drive on a proper motorway.
If it cost around the same, why then not build motorways who benefit alot more people than these railways?
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Old May 31st, 2009, 07:09 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Actually only 6 fatal injuries and zero deaths between 1997 and 2004.
Fatal injury = death
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Old May 31st, 2009, 07:26 PM   #668
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I read that too,but I didn't wanna say anything. I guess what he means is "serious injuries"...

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Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
^ I sometimes agree with a small portion of what you say, you know

When it comes to mountains making roads to expensive, that is just not right. buying of farmlands or peoples houses are more expensive.... Also the rock from the tunnels provides roadbuilders with good fundaments for the road elsewhere...
I'm just much more precise than you are... I would say "at least 2 lanes" is a bit better expression than "the narrow non-yellow stripe highways".
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Last edited by IceCheese; May 31st, 2009 at 07:31 PM.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 07:45 PM   #669
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No motorway is needed for roads with low trafic And no i don't think motorway has the same benefits as high-speed rail... The traveltime will still be high even if you build motorway...
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Old May 31st, 2009, 09:08 PM   #670
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I agree we don't need motorways all over the country. When we have Oslo-Trondheim, Oslo-Krisitansand-Stavanger-Bergen, and Ålesund-Trondheim-Steinkjer, it should be quite sufficient! The rest can have wide 2-lane roads with 90 km/h limits, maybe with some passing lanes in the worst climbing-parts..

But we need a HSR-network in Southern Norway in addition to this, yes. That's the most efficient travel-way. But as some have mentioned, it's not flexible enough to work alone.

The one I'm most excited about is Ålesund-Steinkjer. Imagine what a region that would be, of one could really start cutting the distances. So many cities, and so much economy (oil). It's weird is isn't more tied together now, but when plane is the only way to get to a place, the Oslo-region is suddenly the closest destination...

Ok, I'm dreaming... And yabbering...
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Last edited by IceCheese; May 31st, 2009 at 09:13 PM.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:02 AM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Tomorrow I will try to take some pictures of the ongoing building of new E 39 from Rendalen in Møre og Romsdal to Staurset in Sør-Trøndelag.
Nice post. I thought that road was more or less continously closed these days due to the construction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
I didn't quite understand if you thought it was a bad thing that they use money on a new road or if you thought they should have done it earlier.

The main reason they havn't done it earlier is becouse there has been relative low number of injuries despite the low standard. Actually only 6 fatal injuries and zero deaths between 1997 and 2004. But that's due to the low AADT. And the low AADT is becouse of the low standard. When the whole stretch from Orkanger to Halsa is finished the traffic will probably be atleast the double. But this won't happen until 2020 earliest.
Another reason in this case is that this part of E39 is relatively new as a national thoroughfare. The main road to Kristiansund used to go via Surnadal (rv 65) and the main road to Molde used to go via Sunndal (not that it is any better). However, two new bridges in Krifast changed all that, and the road via Halsa all of a sudden became the shortest, and hence the route for the new E39.

To underpin your traffic claim:
AADT rv 65 (Surnadal road) on mountain pass between Meldal and Rindal: 1600
AADT rv 70 border Oppdal-Sunndal: 1500
AADT E136 border Oppland-Romsdal: 1650

(Not all of this traffic originates would transfer to E39, however, this is particularly true for E136, where most of the traffic comes from Oslo and not Trondheim)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
I agree we don't need motorways all over the country. When we have Oslo-Trondheim, Oslo-Krisitansand-Stavanger-Bergen, and Ålesund-Trondheim-Steinkjer, it should be quite sufficient! The rest can have wide 2-lane roads with 90 km/h limits, maybe with some passing lanes in the worst climbing-parts..

But we need a HSR-network in Southern Norway in addition to this, yes. That's the most efficient travel-way. But as some have mentioned, it's not flexible enough to work alone.

The one I'm most excited about is Ålesund-Steinkjer. Imagine what a region that would be, of one could really start cutting the distances. So many cities, and so much economy (oil). It's weird is isn't more tied together now, but when plane is the only way to get to a place, the Oslo-region is suddenly the closest destination...

Ok, I'm dreaming... And yabbering...
Ålesund-Trondheim is in my vision (see link in signature), but in the third phase. Orkanger-Steinkjer is even in FrPs transport plan, and as far I remember also in the road authorities (very long term) plan.... However, connecting also Ålesund, Molde, and Kristiansund would be great (but expensive).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
No motorway is needed for roads with low trafic And no i don't think motorway has the same benefits as high-speed rail... The traveltime will still be high even if you build motorway...
In my view, HSR /railway and improved highways/motorways play complentary roles. HSR would almost certainly be a more expensive way of travel, and would in reality serve the central cities the best as you still need connectivity to your final destination unless it is close to the stations. This would be OK for much of the bussiness and commuter travelers, however. Trondheim-Oslo should be possible in about 4 hours with a proper motorway, and hence would be a alternative for budget travellers. Both are propably needed in order to reduce the very energy inefficient air travel. Whereas HSR is not neccessarily any better for the climate than motorways, railways is much better for freight. Hence, job number one for the the Norwegian railways should be to remove the bottlenecks in freight transport, and electrify the lines that are still diesel. However, politically, I think it is much easier to get a broad compromize on HSR+Motorways than just motorways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-Lion View Post
Kjello0:
I think it's more correct to translate highways into "Norwegian national roads", basically the european routes and the "riksvei"s (national routes). But yes, highway does not mean motorway.
In English also county and municipal roads can be highways. I.e., a small residiential street is not a highway, but main city roads and most public rural roads are highways.
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; June 2nd, 2009 at 02:15 AM.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:17 AM   #672
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Nice post. I thought that road was more or less continously closed these days due to the construction?
They only work Sunday evenings to Thursday evenings. So it's opened for local traffic during weekends. Even tough it's officially closed since it's really bad standard and won't be easy for heavy traffic to drive there. The pictures will have to wait. Couldn't find my camera.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:58 AM   #673
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Orkanger-Steinkjer is even in FrPs transport plan, and as far I remember also in the road authorities (very long term) plan....
You won't believe this. The stretch between Klett and Orkanger is 26,9 km, including 10,4 km in tunnels. Klett - Øysand 4,5 km is planed as 4 lane motorway. They also plan new 2 lane tunnels. This leaves 12 km which they plan as 3 lane roads.

If they actually does it like this it will give
Start Orkanger
5,42 km 3 lane
3,65 km 4 lane
630 m 3 lane
2,71 km 4 lane
1,59 km 3 lane
278 m 4 lane
540 m 3 lane
722 m 4 lane
550 m 3 lane
1,73 km 4 lane
3,38 km 3 lane
5,7 km 4 lane
End Klett interchange
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 12:09 PM   #674
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I made a map of motorway development in Norway - sorry i only choose the area with the most going on, but i can just add that there has been some and will be more motorway building in other regions, but shorter stretches than this - I also choose to add all 4 lane or more roads that have some motorway qualities.

2000:


2010:


2020 (NTP):
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 11:44 PM   #675
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And then the 3 other city regions:

Bergen:
2000:


2010:


2020:


Stavanger:
2000:


2010:


2020:


Trondheim:
2000:


2010:


2020:
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 11:49 PM   #676
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Motorway from Melhus to Støren is supposed to be finished in 2016.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 11:58 PM   #677
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^ Not motorway, only 2 lanes from Melhus and south... Don't even think it will be divided lanes....
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 12:50 AM   #678
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No, it's going to be a narrow 4 lane motorway. Traffic is already 9700 on the stretch south of Melhus. However, Melhus - Støren wasn't a part of NTP. Guessing it will be in when the next NTP comes in four years. It won't cost 2,5 billion NOK if it's not Motorway.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 01:11 AM   #679
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You're right, i missed that one - not really my region, just assumed it would be 2 lane because of the southern part of Melhus bypass is 2 lane ;D Good news! To bad it's not in NTP, atleast an upgrade of E6 south of Støren made it aswell as the last bit between Trondheim and Melhus
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 01:27 AM   #680
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We might see the motorway prolonged past Ålgård and perhaps even eiganestunnellen and rogfast connnected with a motorway.

And wow, didn't know that ryfast was gonna be a 4-liner! Sweet!



In other news!
Car fuel can rise with 1 kr per litre.
http://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/103...offavgift.html
Rogaland får lov til å innføre lokal drivstoffavgift. Literprisen på bensin og diesel kan fort bli en krone dyrere enn i dag.
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