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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:14 PM   #881
ChrisZwolle
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Olden - Innvik is only a short section though. If the rest of the road is okay, they maybe could replace this section with a 9 km tunnel.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #882
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I had to reverse quite some distance to let the truck pass on this exact stretch when I was in Norway two years ago.
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Old October 13th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #883
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Road lights has huge traffic safety gains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Roadlights on motorways is a big waste of money, these roads even have fences to keep larger animals from entering. And they don't keep you from sleeping, in fact they are WORSE. Working as a Halden Taxi-driver, i have driven a lot at night on both Norwegian and Swedish rural E6-motorways Only when there is a lot of fog are these lights at aid, those new pearl-rand lights will probably work just as good. But keeping retards from driving the wrong way? Probably not.... They could instead use spikestrips on those suckers
Hi, I have to disagree with you on this.
Road lights are among the most effective traffic safety measures available (this has been proven in numerous international studies from as early as the late 1940s). The savings in reduced accidents and fatalities is much higher than the cost of electricity (modern road lights are very energy efficient also). I hope therefore that Norway won’t start any large scale implementation of light studs instead of road lights. I for one will speak out against this new trial. I drove the E6 stretch at night yesterday, and it was not very pleasant. And yes, I have driven on motorways at night (dark ones and lighted) both in Sweden, on the Continent, in UK and in USA at night, and it is not always pleasant, especially in heavy traffic and rain. Do also remember that older people needs more light to see well (at 40 the need is double of that which was needed at 20, and at 60 the need is six fold).
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Old October 13th, 2009, 10:26 AM   #884
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instead of LEDs and complex sensors, what about reflective cat's eyes that are colored white on the front face, and red on the back face. Then if a car's headlight illuminates it from the wrong direction it will shine red?

gee, the wonders of technology :P
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Old October 13th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #885
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Wohoo!
We get an massive 1,67 billion extra in road investments next year.
So now we are up in 6,5 billion in road investments a year. That's less than NTP promissed us.

As stated earlier in this topic, we should ask ourself what standard our transport network should have in 2050.
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Old October 13th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #886
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In my opinion, thinking in terms as "2050" is way too far ahead. It allows for politicians to postpone projects.
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Old October 13th, 2009, 10:41 PM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
Wohoo!
We get an massive 1,67 billion extra in road investments next year.
So now we are up in 6,5 billion in road investments a year. That's less than NTP promissed us.

As stated earlier in this topic, we should ask ourself what standard our transport network should have in 2050.
20 % is a rather good growthrate tough - don't you think? Remember if the growth is to fast Vegvesenet/Jernbaneverket might have trouble handling it...
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Old October 14th, 2009, 01:31 AM   #888
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Then get in some cheap European workers on it. And I will never be impressed by how much the government pays in road fundings, as long as the car drivers pay just as much in toll booths.

Same news is that the government will give a whole billion A WHOLE billion NOK to the counties, as a compensation for giving them charge over most of the old national road-system. Experts says there will take tens of billions alone to make these roads only into "acceptible" standard.
So then let us all place bets on how long it will take before Liv Signe Navarsete (Sp) or anyone else of the government starts complaining that the counties don't do enough for these roads
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Old October 14th, 2009, 05:14 AM   #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In my opinion, thinking in terms as "2050" is way too far ahead. It allows for politicians to postpone projects.
Well, when you got so much problems as we got here in Norway you will need 40 years to first discuss, plan and then build everything. But when we have agreed on how it should look in 2050 we do of course need goals on how it should look in 2020, 2025 etc.

With the current fundings it will take 70 years to only upgrade the stamvei network which counts only 8 939 km out of 27 463 km of national routes. And then you may guess how long it will take before all national routes have the needed standard. In adition we know that every new road is only planed 20 years ahead. Meaning that we probably never will have a modern infrastructure in this country.
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Old October 14th, 2009, 12:32 PM   #890
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Since many drivers are members of NAF why not get into a sort of protest ...?
Like they do in France or other countries..?
Norwegians are too much like sheep to protest, it would take immigination.

Whoever if the new government is going to do what they said they would do it looks like more money is going to be spent on new roads and upgrading the existing poor ones.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
20 % is a rather good growthrate tough - don't you think? Remember if the growth is to fast Vegvesenet/Jernbaneverket might have trouble handling it...
This is far lower than the little ambitious NTP though, which even if it were followed would leave us with a substandard road network within our lifetime. In particular, of course, I am dissapointed with the funding in my own county. The only new project, is 1 km or so of 100 % toll financed road. Also rv 3 got 50 million instead of the promised 140.

Comparing with other posts in the budget, the fraction going to transportation is in fact declining, a role it shares with education / research. This government is good at spending bucks, but very bad at prioritizing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Olden - Innvik is only a short section though. If the rest of the road is okay, they maybe could replace this section with a 9 km tunnel.
That won't happen in a while. Although this video gives another impression, this is not a very important road (this video was probably made or sponsored by the local trucking company...). IMO it is worse that some of the most important roads in Norway connecting the bigger regions are regularly closed because they are too narrow and poor maintained, causing closures lasting for hours at a time, like these two dual-truck gridlocks on RV 3:



(of course, not a single penny to fix any of the involved sections in the current budget)
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Old October 18th, 2009, 11:55 AM   #892
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I believe the onlky way for Norway to get a decent road network is to do what the Croatians did, designate it as a national priority, pay for it with tolls. I know this will be unpopular but I can't see any other way for this country to get the roads it needs.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 08:55 PM   #893
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Personally I would not mind paying more in tolls, I could afford it. However, for the transportation sector, or at least the bussinesses depending on them, it would be not be very smart to add even more costs. Norwegian industry is already severly handicapped due to the high transport costs. However, once the roads are in place, they would probably be happy even with tolls, if new roads are built in such a fashion that transportation time is seriously shortened. Thus, the real uphill would be public acceptance. Motorists already pay several times more to the government than they get back in terms of roads. With the new E6 tolls Gardemoen-Kolomoen, and the already more or less accepted tolls scheme for E6 / rv 3 in Trøndelag, rv 3 south of Elverum, and E6 in Oppland, a trip between Oslo and Trondheim will already cost a couple of hundred kr in tolls. I hardly expect voters to accept anything more.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 03:09 AM   #894
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How many times are we supposed to pay for the same peice of road?
We have taxes. Roads is one of their tasks too you know.
We have car taxes.
We have fuel taxes.
We have toll roads.

Even when we sum ony the last three the amount we pay each year surpass 60 billion NOK. And what do we get back? a comunication budget of 27,9 billion NOK. And a road budget of only 17 billion. That's only 27% out of the 62,2 billion NOK we pay in car taxes, fuel taxes and toll roads. We should be considered as customers, and we simply don't get what we pay for.
And what do we use those 17 billions on?
7,5 billion on maintenance.
1,5 billion on ferry services.
1 billion on research.
500 millions on OPS.
6,5 billions on "road investments"
But road investments is not the same as road building. Road investments is everything from new railing, sidewalks, rock slide protection and so on. Even city development projects like the Bergen Light Rail goes under this post. This mean that on new roads the goverment only spends 4-4,5 billion NOK on road building. That's even less than what we pay in toll roads today. So it's not about the money. It's about the lack of interest of building roads from our goverments the last 20 years. And those roads that actually gets build is so bad planed that most of them will be out of date within 15 years. Which isn't strange since all road projects is only planed 20 years ahead. With only 1% annual growth.

I don't see why road building have to be so complicated in Norway.
Agree on what we need.
Find out what it cost.
And just ******* build it!

Last edited by Kjello0; October 22nd, 2009 at 03:16 AM.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 09:11 PM   #895
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I don't completely disagree, I'm only saying that currently, no country on the face of the earth (with a partial exception for China...) are developing massive new government-funded motorway networks.
Have you been to Croatia recently, over the past 10 years they have built a motorway network which must be one of the best I've ever driven on, when finished it will connect all the major cities and towns in Croatia. I believe it's now about 75& complete with only a few links to the south of Split, the link from Reijka South and the connection to Pula. All the missing links are currently under construction. This network is partially funded by tolls and by govt investment. Once the motorway network is complete then the next major project will be the railways.

New Zealand is financing major highway projects all through direct govt funding, the Waikato Expressway, major motorway projects in Auckland and Tauranga, and further improvement to State Highway 1 where they are increasing passing lanes, road realignments, improving safety, grade separating intersections and providing bypasses for certain towns.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 09:17 PM   #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post

I don't see why road building have to be so complicated in Norway.
Agree on what we need.
Find out what it cost.
And just ******* build it!
You summed it up rather nicely, now why the **** don't Norwegians get out and protest, maybe the trucking industry could stage some go slowers (since they already go pretty slow), cause some major disruptions to traffic, or block the major transport routes out of Norway, maybe Norwegians could grow a pair and stage an act of civil disobedience, something like everyone not paying the annual car registration, hit the govt where it hurts, in the wallet. Unless people actually start raising a ruckus and demanding improvements and protest the govt just won't act.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 09:42 PM   #897
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What is about roads on the east of Norway near border with Russia and Finland??Are somewhere that photos??
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Old October 25th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #898
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I've never been there myself, but Wikimedia has a couple of photos in their database from our northernmost county:

E6 in Finnmark, Sennalandet:


Rv92 on border between Norway and Finland, over river Anárjohka:
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Old October 26th, 2009, 05:55 PM   #899
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As same in Poland...

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Originally Posted by KiwiRob View Post
Have you been to Croatia recently, over the past 10 years they have built a motorway network which must be one of the best I've ever driven on, when finished it will connect all the major cities and towns in Croatia. I believe it's now about 75& complete with only a few links to the south of Split, the link from Reijka South and the connection to Pula. All the missing links are currently under construction. This network is partially funded by tolls and by govt investment. Once the motorway network is complete then the next major project will be the railways.

New Zealand is financing major highway projects all through direct govt funding, the Waikato Expressway, major motorway projects in Auckland and Tauranga, and further improvement to State Highway 1 where they are increasing passing lanes, road realignments, improving safety, grade separating intersections and providing bypasses for certain towns.

Polands gouverment, spent lots of money for big road projects. At present we have 881km of motorways and 340km expressways. The plan is to build a 2004 km motorways and 5760km of expressways. By the end of 2010 there will be 357 km more of motorways and expressways.

This map shows the graduated road projects, construction and future plan.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/544...ogiekspres.png
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Old October 26th, 2009, 06:11 PM   #900
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This map is better:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4620/94072510.png

continuous red line - the motorways existing
red dashed line - the motorways construction

continuous yellow line - express highways existing
yellow dashed line - the express highways construction
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