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Old October 26th, 2009, 08:16 PM   #901
mati162c
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i think it's a wrong thread...
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Old October 26th, 2009, 11:01 PM   #902
Ŝróndeimr
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New E6 2x2 south of Steinkjer opens tomorrow. Finally!

http://www.t-a.no/nyheter/article95728.ece

Kjello0, you have turned into a Nord Trĝnder? what does Steinkjer have that Trondheim does not?
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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:03 AM   #903
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Picture from the article:

Quote from the discussion:
"This must be the narrowest four lane road in the world"

Hopefully, the rest of the Trondheim-Steinkjer road, when completed some time around year 2150, will be a few cm broader....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
This mean that on new roads the goverment only spends 4-4,5 billion NOK on road building.
To put this in perspective, 4 billion is:
  • 0.4 % of the income side of the budget (1 trillion in the budget, real number probably higher)
  • 0.14 % of the government savings abroad ("oil fund") at the end of 2010 (2.9 trillions)
  • 0.16 % of GDP in 2008 (2.55 trillions)
  • 1.3 % of various national government welfare expenditures (308 billions)(sick leave, pensions, unemployment benefits etc, "folketrygden"), excluding for instance hospitals and services paid by the cities.
About a third of the work force currently lives on various kinds of welfare benefits; Norway also has a large public sector. In fact, a total of 2 million is currently living on public money one way or the other. Put some of these people to work, I would say....

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiRob View Post
Have you been to Croatia recently, over the past 10 years they have built a motorway network which must be one of the best I've ever driven on.....
Very interesting, but I don't think Elvis77 is waiting for your reply on this any more....
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiRob View Post
You summed it up rather nicely, now why the **** don't Norwegians get out and protest, maybe the trucking industry could stage some go slowers (since they already go pretty slow), cause some major disruptions to traffic, or block the major transport routes out of Norway, maybe Norwegians could grow a pair and stage an act of civil disobedience, something like everyone not paying the annual car registration, hit the govt where it hurts, in the wallet. Unless people actually start raising a ruckus and demanding improvements and protest the govt just won't act.
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Originally Posted by mati162c View Post
i think it's a wrong thread...
No, it illustrates how a comparably poor country manages that a rich one like Norway does not (even though there are plenty of Polish workers here, doing a very good job!)
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:58 AM   #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
Kjello0, you have turned into a Nord Trĝnder? what does Steinkjer have that Trondheim does not?
A school of economics and administration where people with normal grades may attend.

Trondheim was of course my first choice.

Regarding the new road they should have made three meters wider so it could be signposted motorway.

Last edited by Kjello0; October 27th, 2009 at 03:10 AM.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 12:12 PM   #905
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What speed limit does it have, 80km/h? The narrow 4-lane roads feels surpricingly fine, i've driven a lot on Rv2 wich is also a narrow 4-lane road (90km/h limit.) Truckers and buses may feel otherwise tough, i can't speak on their behalf....
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Old October 27th, 2009, 12:49 PM   #906
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It has been 80km/h on the part that was opened earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjello0 View Post
A school of economics and administration where people with normal grades may attend.

Trondheim was of course my first choice.
Smart!

Some more pictures of new E6.






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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #907
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I'm glad they have made what seems to be an expensive bikeroute (safer with it's own bridge instead of forcing them on the bridge further south.) even tough it will probably only serve a few dedicated users a day, it gives people a choice for a healthy and cheap transportation without feeling like a 2nd class roaduser
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Old October 27th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #908
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Guess what. The new road have just opened and so far two cars have been spotted driving in the opposite direction which is extremely dangerous! One car drove just a few hundred meters before he turned around in the middel of the road. The other car drove all the way (almost 10km) in the opposite direction. Many called the police.

No wonder, many people living there have never driven on or seen a 2x2 road road before since this is the first in Nord Trĝndelag.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
No wonder, many people living there have never driven on or seen a 2x2 road road before since this is the first in Nord Trĝndelag.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
Guess what. The new road have just opened and so far two cars have been spotted driving in the opposite direction which is extremely dangerous! One car drove just a few hundred meters before he turned around in the middel of the road. The other car drove all the way (almost 10km) in the opposite direction. Many called the police.

No wonder, many people living there have never driven on or seen a 2x2 road road before since this is the first in Nord Trĝndelag.
No spesific for Nord-Trĝndelag. New E6 Vinterbro which opened earlier this fall had 4 (!!) reports of people going the wrong way into the tunnel the first couple of weeks!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #911
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That's ridiculous, those are the ones who didn't notice they have to exit the road to reach E18, and then turn around in the middle of the tunnel? Goddamnit!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 11:33 PM   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
No wonder, many people living there have never driven on or seen a 2x2 road road before since this is the first in Nord Trĝndelag.


seriously? How do they get their drivers license?
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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:34 AM   #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post


seriously? How do they get their drivers license?
In the mail of course.
But yeah it's really impressive that someone mange to do that. The photo below shows standard signs on highway offramps in Norway (two sets of "No entry" and a blue sign with the text "Turn around! Wrong direction"). Shouldn't be too hard to spot....

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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:40 AM   #914
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yeah, thats one of the two places folloriwng the new 6km long 2x2 road where its possible to drive wrong.

but to drive wrong there you have to drive past the two first stopping signs as shown in that picture without seen them. Then you have to drive past another blue sign saying "you are driving the wrong direction, back the **** up!", then at last one last warning with another stopping sign...

Its incredible people drive that wrong. It certainly sais something about the drivers.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:48 AM   #915
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Maybe it's easier to go wrong from the last roundabout coming from the north (i.e. Steinkjer)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
No wonder, many people living there have never driven on or seen a 2x2 road road before since this is the first in Nord Trĝndelag.

seriously? How do they get their drivers license?
Well, I guess our friend from "Nord- Trĝndelag" is exaggerating a bit...Trondheim, is only 120 km away and I guess even the eldery needs to go to university hospital there from time to time...

Regarding driving education it is actually very comprehensive in Norway, and I am pretty sure almost all new drivers have to pass Trondheim on their way to the "slippery road" training, which takes place in Orkanger south-west of Trondheim. As for the driving exam, they don't drive that far, so if there are no four-lane roads nearby they wont be tested on that. The largest weakness of the Norwegian system IMO is the fact that you have your driving licence for life, except that you have to pass some medical tests at old age. Hence, people that got their licences decades ago have to update themselves on change of regulations and new road types.

I suspect a major cause of the "driving in the wrong direction" syndrom is that prior to the opening of a dual carriageway road, one of the carriage ways are usually used for bidirectional traffic. Hence, if drivers go on "autopilot" on the opening day they might not discover the change....

Regarding that new road, it is a prime example of Norwegian road building inefficiency:
  • 150 million euros
  • 12 km (of which 5.4 is four lanes?)
  • 7 years of construction!
Result: A road not up to even the current Norwegian standard, pretty much the same speed limit, ending in normal 2-way / 2-lane street with 8 roundabouts straight through Steinkjer city center. There is probably some gain in safety, but very little in terms of the environment or travel time.

However, the stretch may be historic, as it is the last expansion of E6 of southern Norway without tolls for the forseeable future......
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; October 28th, 2009 at 01:27 AM. Reason: wrong numbers...
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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post

Maybe it's easier to go wrong from the last roundabout coming from the north (i.e. Steinkjer)?
Maybe, but the entrance around that roundabout to the 2x2 have been the same for 2 years now, so i don't think thats the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Well, I guess our friend from "Nord- Trĝndelag" is exaggerating a bit...Trondheim, is only 120 km away and I guess even the eldery needs to go to university hospital there from time to time...
Elderly might drive to Levanger usually, if they can't treat it its bad so i guess taxis or ambulances takes them to Trondheim! Ok, i am exaggerating a bit, but i know my grandparents (over 80 and not that sharp anymore) have always chosen Steinkjer uppon Trondheim, but that they do not dare to drive there anymore.

I had to drive them last year actually, and they had no word in describing how gigantic and scary the road was (world smallest 2x2!). And on the way back (drove across Lĝsberga and to the completed section) the car infront of me drove exactly that wrong direction as in the picture posted by Jonas84. Luckly there was cars coming against him on the ramp, so he stopped naturally half way on it and backed up. Since the guy that drove it was as old as my grandparents they said it would probably be the same if they drove, they have never seen the signs around the new road, and they don't notice them because they are to scared and stressed to watch the road, so basically they just drive whatever road going west, towards their home!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Regarding driving education it is actually very comprehensive in Norway, and I am pretty sure almost all new drivers have to pass Trondheim on their way to the "slippery road" training, which takes place in Orkanger south-west of Trondheim. As for the driving exam, they don't drive that far, so if there are no four-lane roads nearby they wont be tested on that. The largest weakness of the Norwegian system IMO is the fact that you have your driving licence for life, except that you have to pass some medical tests at old age. Hence, people that got their licences decades ago have to update themselves on change of regulations and new road types.
Actually, there is one in Ogndalen, Steinkjer. I took my driver licence in Trondheim, but 60/70% of those i know in Leksvik took it in Steinkjer, Verdal or Levanger. Think some of the schools go to Trondheim to test them, but not all. As you say, this "autopilot" is probably causing the problem here. Maybe a bad day to open the road? Wednesday is a "autopilot"-day for many!
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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #917
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News reader on the radio: "This is just in: A motorist has been spotted driving the wrong direction on the new road south of Steinkjer"

Elderly man in his car on the same road: "One motorist!? One!? Bloody hell! I've met about 50 cars going the wrong direction!".


(Yeah, I know the joke is old)
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:28 AM   #918
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Videos E6 /Rv 3

Here are some videos showing the sorry state of E6 and Rv 3, the two main north-south routes in Norway, in the three municipalities of Midtre Gauldal, Rennebu, and Oppdal:
http://www.web-tv.li/Undersider/bygg...vei_video.html

There is a lot of Norwegian talk, but for an illustrative example select for instance Sokndal sentrum or Stavċ or Nċverdals bru on the menus to the right. It is incredible that we still have those bridges....
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; November 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 AM.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 05:35 PM   #919
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Hi all! My first post in this forum

Exciting plans for the new Rv.3/Rv.25 i Lĝten and Elverum.

http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter...25lotenelverum

Latest plans in the right menu (Forprosjekt). (sorry too those who can't read norwegian)

For those who can't read norwegian, the plans include:
* 1+1 road with central divider on the Rv.3 part from the intersection with Rv.25 to Hamar, and a couple of kilometers south to the excisting motortrafikkvei to Kolomoen.
* 2+2 road with central divider (narrow motorway) on the Rv.3/Rv.25 from Lĝten to Elverum west.
* two-lane road (10m wide) between Elverum west and Grundset on Rv3.
* 2+2 road with central divider from Elverum west to Basthjĝrnet (near Elverum railway station).

Interesting things is:
* The 1+1 section on Rv.3 i Lĝten will be built 14 meters wide, (normal is 12,5 for this type of road) with a 2,5 meter wide central divider (normal width on narrow motorway). I really hope they build all bridges crossing the road long enough for a future addition to total four lanes. The same counts for bridges carrying Rv.3 itself, if there will be any (2 x 11m wide bridges).
* They actually plan to build four lanes into Elverum city center, which I thought was a non-do matter i Norway today (at least in a city of Elverums size, 20 000). Great tough, but in the future i guess they will have to build a new bridge spanning Glomma, and a second tunnel under the city center in direction of Trysil, so there will be four lanes all the way throug the city.
* One of the alternatives includes a roundabout with a diameter of 100-130 meters in the intersection in Elverum west. Guess this will become the largest in Norway then?
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 06:01 PM   #920
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Welcome to the forum, Gsus!

Let's hope this project will finally be built, plans for this project has been around for quite some time now (although in typical Norwegian style they are continously modified. As a person who think Norway at some point not in too distant future should complete the close to 70 year old plan of building a motorway Oslo-Trondheim via Ĝsterdalen, I really share your hopes regarding the width of the 1+1 part, but I am not too optimistic. In any case I am quite surprised that they actually still plan the northern part of rv 3 to Grundseth without dividers. Unfortunately, I would expect a lot fatal crashes on that road.

Regarding the roundabout, I really hope that they keep to the original plan, having the trunk road rv 3 as a through road in a grade separated intersection, alternatively, but less ideal, to have a grade separated interesection with rv 25 as the through road. Any other solution would be short sighted and cause environmental damage as the trucks of rv 3 have to slow down.
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; November 3rd, 2009 at 06:19 PM.
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