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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #981
Vildana
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Last september drove from malmø to Husnes(West Norway).The highway all the way to oslo was ok,after oslo west ward it was horrible.some places almost impossible two cars can pass each other.Ethiopia for example is as mountaineous as Norway but has much better roads than norway specially around mountaineous areas.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #982
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Truck traffic between Trondheim and Oslo (roughly 500 km) has reached an all-time high of 700/day, driving on roads that in other countries would be used as farm roads.....and on very icy and slippery conditions. The reason: The Norwegian railway is even more ****ed up than the roads.

This picture appeared in the Trondheim newspaper today, recording the 49 trucks a driver met on the 76 km between Heimdal and Berkåk on the E6 south of Trondheim.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:01 PM   #983
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Nice Although 700 trucks is nothing, you'll find that on almost any major road in Western Europe. The Dutch A15 near Rotterdam has 35,000 trucks per day and is forecasted to grow to 55,000 trucks by 2025.

Rail freight is not interesting for the bulk of the truck traffic movements, regardless of how good or bad the rail network is. Rail is mostly interesting for bulk freights, like coal, containers or grain, most of that is not transported by trucks anyway except from the distribution centers to the local destinations.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:00 PM   #984
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Of course I am aware that 700 is little compared with many major roads around the world. However, comparing 11-lanes or so A15 in Rotterdam with bareley two lanes on the Trondheim-Oslo highway is a little bit ridicolous:

A15 Rotterdam (afaik they are in the process of expanding it?)


Rv 3, Norway:


Of course, there are seldom traffic jams in rural Norway. The problem is more a matter of safety, efficiency and realibility Even on summer days the distance between approaching trucks on this bumpy road could be down to cm. In winter days, the road often is slippery and narrower. Add to this the complication of moose that follows the highway and cannot get off easily due to the snow and foreign trucks without proper traction, and you have a very dangerous road. There are frequent crashes and closures and many deaths every year. Since the distance between Trondheim and Oslo is close to 500 km, having a slow and unreliable road is a huge cost for the society.

BTW, several transport companies (the postal service, Schenker, TollPost-Globe) has stated that they have significantly increased the fraction they transport using trucks because of the recent problems with the Norwegian railway.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:57 PM   #985
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..........

BTW, several transport companies (the postal service, Schenker, TollPost-Globe) has stated that they have significantly increased the fraction they transport using trucks because of the recent problems with the Norwegian railway.[/QUOTE]


Unbelievable that such a rich country has neither a proper road and rail infrastructure
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 05:28 PM   #986
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social net recquires enormous amount of money, so development budgets are drained...
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 10:26 PM   #987
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social net recquires enormous amount of money, so development budgets are drained...
Why's that a ""? I'd rather have an enormous social net than having super quality roads.
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 10:36 PM   #988
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Not really a comparison. Road budgets are only a tiny fraction (usually less than 1%) of the GDP. Expenditures on the social safety net and health care (the welfare state) are MUCH bigger.
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Old March 29th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #989
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Why's that a ""? I'd rather have an enormous social net than having super quality roads.
Maybe if the roads and rail were better more industry would set up because transport links would be more efficient, this could and should lead to incresed economic activity and more people working therefore less reliance on social welfare.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #990
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No wonder Norway has an extremely well-developed airport infrastructure (i.e. lots of airports and a lot of air routes, when it comes to technological standard etc I read we were comparable to a third world country again). Norwegians are among the most air travelling people in the world.

The problem in Norway is horrible topography, -very- little people and large distances..Continental Europe (at least all the way down to the alps) have nothing near the problems with topography Norway has. Many of the world's longest tunnels are in Norway. Sweden too, has a more forgiving topography. Plus, of course, there's lots of people in Europe

Of course, Norway has enough money, and one can easily blaim politicians. But I think one of the things that tip the scale is basically the lack of return for the huge investments needed for a decent road. Another reason could be the rural policies of the government. Cities are not prioritized (except Oslo), and infrastructure development is done patch by patch. Not efficient and horrenduously expensive, but gives a lot of political return.

PS: Blaim democracy too...the planned new E6 south of Trondheim took ten-twenty years to actually be realized, partly because a handful of farmers refused to move.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 01:01 PM   #991
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Personally I believe the problem in Norway is that politicians hate cars, they don't want people to have cars hence the absurd taxes on cars and the utterly terrible state of the roads in which people have to drive there cars on. The topography problem isn't that big a deal, have you ever been to Croatia, you should take a look at the motorways they have built through terrain similar to Norway, they are also a much poorer country.

The other problem is Norwegians are lazy buggers and like taking the maximum amount of sick leave that they can get or if they are lucky get the holly grail 50% to 100% permanent sick leave, the govt then ends up having to pay for these malingering bastards, which doesn't leave a lot of money in the pot for improvements to infrastructure, hospitals and schools in Norway.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 07:54 PM   #992
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it was a willed politics in the 60ies and 70ies to build great airports all over the country, instead of focusing on the roads. By that many road projects were dropped or downsized and not built like recommended in reports made just a few years earlier.
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Old March 31st, 2010, 08:08 PM   #993
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There is hardly any competition between airports and roads. Most daily car related trips are not much longer approximately one hour. You don't fly for 60 km. In Norway's case, I think the airports compete more with trains on the 200 - 1000 km range. Also, air freight is very expensive, so there is not much competition between air freight and road freight as well... Both have their qualities, advantages and disadvantages.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:06 AM   #994
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Yesterday I took a ride to the county of Vestfold, to fill my free night. Checking out how the new E18 was doing + visiting some cities shortly. Therefor I have to make a couple of remarks on things that bugged me (other than the fact that the motorway ended just before Tønsberg, seemingly with no signs of further expansions).

Why did E18 Vestfold need that many road tunnnels? They are everywhere, even in this relativly flat county. Waste of money to protect farmlands to such an extent.

Why does E18 Vestfold have speedlimit signs that are not in accordance with the standards of the road authority? Digital signs should have Arial-like fonts, but in Vestfold they look like digital numbers (square-shaped and with space between pixels). I tried to photograph this, but it was dark and raining.

And I want to express my annoyance with the half-way implementing of the new national road-system (stamveg-system). Destinational signs show new road numberings, while markers on the road use the old system. This is especially evident on Rv19 that has got a new route west of Horten. The old one is still signed as Rv19 (white background), while the destination signs shows the way to new Rv19 (green background, stamveg). Confusing for tourists and others trying to find the right way.

That was today's rambling
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:26 AM   #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There is hardly any competition between airports and roads. Most daily car related trips are not much longer approximately one hour. You don't fly for 60 km. In Norway's case, I think the airports compete more with trains on the 200 - 1000 km range. Also, air freight is very expensive, so there is not much competition between air freight and road freight as well... Both have their qualities, advantages and disadvantages.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Why else do we have motorways, if not to give a way to cross larger distances by car/bus/truck in a reasonable time?

In Norway's case, this is even more true on your mentioned range, as the train-infrastructure is so bad. You said it yourself earlier that trains are most competive on bulk transport. In Norway train is usually slower than all other transport options. The only advantage they have is that they are cheap. This winter, though, they have been especially unrelyable, and for instance, the Norwegian Post has been forced to move their freight from train to trucks.
And for freight of persons, the train don't even have the price advantage!

Of course commuter traffic stands for a lot of the use of our highways/motorways. It's undenyable, but it wasn't what I was thinking of in my original post. My point was that we(I) live in a country with a very high mobility and desentralisation. Quite a lot of people work in a whole other part of the country than they actually live, and many public institutions as schools of higher education etc are located far from the great population sentras. Also, now that easter is upon us, we have huge traffic flows going from our cities to rural cabin areas, putting a further strain on the national roads.
Heavy industry in Norway usually is located in rural parts of the country, furter putting a preasure on the road networks.
And, as I pointed out in my first post, how we seeked to solve this in the 60ies and 70ies was to build airports, which then (probably) was thought to revolutionize the communications more than it did.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 10:23 AM   #996
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As long as the socialists are in power there will never be decent roads in Norway, it's about time to let the conservatives fix the mess the last few Stoltenberg govts have made of the country It's time to uncork more of the oil money, it's fine to save it for future generations but if we don't fix what's broken now what kind of future will there be.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 04:27 PM   #997
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As long as the socialists are in power there will never be decent roads in Norway, it's about time to let the conservatives fix the mess the last few Stoltenberg govts have made of the country It's time to uncork more of the oil money, it's fine to save it for future generations but if we don't fix what's broken now what kind of future will there be.
Oh yes. There was a revolution in infrastructure during Bondevik I & II.....
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 01:29 PM   #998
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But the last election the conservatives had an infrastructure agenda, but for god only knows what reason (rather like the US voting in Bush for his second term) the Norwegian people decided to keep the same useless Stoltenberg socialist govt, another 4 years of mediocre, ineffective govt.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 11:14 AM   #999
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Originally Posted by Maggern2k View Post
No wonder Norway has an extremely well-developed airport infrastructure (i.e. lots of airports and a lot of air routes, when it comes to technological standard etc I read we were comparable to a third world country again). Norwegians are among the most air travelling people in the world.

The problem in Norway is horrible topography, -very- little people and large distances..Continental Europe (at least all the way down to the alps) have nothing near the problems with topography Norway has. Many of the world's longest tunnels are in Norway. Sweden too, has a more forgiving topography. Plus, of course, there's lots of people in Europe
It is a myth that building roads in Norway is particularly expensive. True, we have hilly terrain, but the ground is mostly very stable. More importantly, in rural Norway the cost of land is very low. In, as far as I remember, building roads are cheaper in Norway than for instance UK or Denmark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggern2k View Post
Of course, Norway has enough money, and one can easily blaim politicians. But I think one of the things that tip the scale is basically the lack of return for the huge investments needed for a decent road.
On this I certainly disagree on. Road investements in Norway would certainly pay off! (See my post linked in the signature)
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There is hardly any competition between airports and roads. Most daily car related trips are not much longer approximately one hour. You don't fly for 60 km. In Norway's case, I think the airports compete more with trains on the 200 - 1000 km range. Also, air freight is very expensive, so there is not much competition between air freight and road freight as well... Both have their qualities, advantages and disadvantages.
As IceCheese already has pointed out, this is incorrect. There is indeed competition between air and road on the main Norwegian intercity routes. Here is somewhat old traffic statistics in Norway showing the split between various forms of transportation:

Coastal routes between Trondheim and Stavanger (no railway!):


Routes from Oslo and northwards against Trondheim:


(Legends: Båt=ship, fly=air, tog=railway, bil=car, buss=bus)

With improved road infrastructure, meaning driving time between the major cities around 4 hours, and taxing air traffic on similar terms as cars, road traffic will increase a lot compared with air. Currently, Oslo-Trondheim, Oslo-Bergen and Oslo-Stavanger are among the busiest air routes of Europe.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #1000
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I was talking about daily trips. Most people don't drive from Oslo to Trondheim every day. How many people are we talking about in absolute numbers?
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