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Old April 6th, 2010, 10:16 AM   #1001
NorthStar77
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I was driving from my hometown Kristiansand back to Oslo last evening, for the first time on the new motorway between Kristiansand and Grimstad. The whole trip took only 3h 40min, and I didn't stay much above the speedlimit. Despite our poor infrastructure, E18 between Kristiansand and Oslo has slowly, bit by bit, improved over the 10 years I've been living in Oslo. I think those 320 kilometers took about 45 minutes longer back then. Plus all the congestions in weekends, one could often use 6 hours. But now that the biggest bottlenecks are fixed(especially Drammen!), that is not such a big problem either.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
http://nexus.fizyka.amu.edu.pl/digit...-07..Norwegia/

Very cool photo's done by some Polish guy, so all credits go to him.
(taken from the Polish subforum on SSC).
new links (old no longer works..):
All photos http://nexus.hell.pl/digital/2007/2007-07.Norwegia/
Best (imho) photos http://nexus.hell.pl/digital/2007/2007-07..Norwegia/

(I'm still missing Norway..)


map Google Maps

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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #1003
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Very nice pictures!!!

I hope to go to Norway next year again.
My last visit was in 2009.
I'v also drove many tunnels, bridges and nice roads.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 04:21 AM   #1004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post

Coastal routes between Trondheim and Stavanger (no railway!):

Railway between Bergen and Stavanger? It`s possible but the trip takes 15 hours
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #1005
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But the last election the conservatives had an infrastructure agenda, but for god only knows what reason (rather like the US voting in Bush for his second term) the Norwegian people decided to keep the same useless Stoltenberg socialist govt, another 4 years of mediocre, ineffective govt.
Calling Stoltenberg a socialist is an insult to socialism.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #1006
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Socialism is an insult to intelligent people who don't need to be treated like children or sheep, if people in this country had a spine to stand up for the crap the current govt throws at us I'm sure we would have the infrastructure that a country with the level of wealth Norway has deserves.

For example I drove from Stavanger to Molde last May, the weather was good, no rain or snow, very little traffic yet it took me 13 hours to drive 750 km, only 2 ferry crossings, I was not a happy bunny, in any other developed country a trip of that distance would take somewhere between 5 - 8 hours.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #1007
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What crap is the government throwing at you? Ap has never been more right wing than they are now.
And how will things be better under Høyre/Frp/Krf?

And [email protected] a trip through western norway with "any other developed country"
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Old April 9th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #1008
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I wonder what route you chose Stavanger - Molde that only had 2 ferry crossings, sounds like you did a large detour there.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:27 PM   #1009
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I went inland, the ferry crossing were Stavanger to Haugesund and Åfarnes to Sølsnes, it's much quicker going inland across the mountains to Lilliehamer and up the E8 to Dombås than the coast route via Bergen and Ålesund.

If you consider the current govt right leaning jonas then you have your head up your arse, in any other western country this govt wouldn't even be close to centre left, things are pretty bad right now I fail see how a more business friendly, happy to invest in infrastructure and limit immigration Høyre/Frp govt could be any worse.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #1010
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They're not right leaning compared to Frp, but compared to what they could've been and compared to what Ap used to be when it was still a labor party, they are.

Who privatised Statoil? Stoltenberg. And we could go on.

The last thing they said was that they didnt want to finance Store norske leksikon because it didnt felt that it was the governments responsibility to finance things like that. Not exactly 'socialist'.

But this discussion dont belong in this thread anyway, sorry.

Last edited by j0nas; April 9th, 2010 at 10:55 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:46 PM   #1011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiRob View Post
I went inland, the ferry crossing were Stavanger to Haugesund and Åfarnes to Sølsnes, it's much quicker going inland across the mountains to Lilliehamer and up the E8 to Dombås than the coast route via Bergen and Ålesund.
Drove from Haugesund to Leksvik in april last year, same rout as you more or less (Haugesund-Odda-Hardangervidda-Gol-Fagernes-Dokka-Lillehammer-E6 to Trondheim, ferry Flakk-Rørvik to Leksvik). That was 930km. Took me just about 11 hours of very slow driving as i was driving in the end of Easter (Hardangervidda-Geilo-Gol in Easter is ), also i did do a 30min break in Fagernes, and a almost 30min stop north of Lillehammer due to a collision.

You must have been driving insanely slow, esp. when having more than 100km shorter rout?
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Old April 10th, 2010, 12:49 AM   #1012
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No not slow, I pretty much stuck to the speed limit the whole way, at the point I was only 1 speeding ticket away from saying bye bye to my license, my 13 hours included 2 ferry crossings, 1 petrol stop, and 2 half hours stops for lunch and dinner, total time behind the wheel was about 10 hours, still far to long for the distance driven.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #1013
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Maybe we should revive the Bergen-Trondheim highway discussion
( http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...443589&page=41 ). Anyways, KiwiBob, that road stretch close to Oppdal you mentioned earlier is 2+1 (although they have not cared about removing the old paint, so the markings on the single lane side is confusing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I was talking about daily trips. Most people don't drive from Oslo to Trondheim every day. How many people are we talking about in absolute numbers?
More than 1.6 M per year go by air, i.e. total traffic is currently around 1.6/.4=4 M per year if you sum all forms of transportation, or roughly 11 000 pax per day. Of course, this does not translate to 11 000 AADT if all went by road, but on the other hand, the traffic is growing insanely, by more than a factor 5.2 during the last 30 years. In addition, of course, since this is only the long distance traffic, the totalthe traffic is approaching this level only on the lonliest stretches; most places the total traffic is significantly higher.
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Originally Posted by Melankolic View Post
Railway between Bergen and Stavanger? It`s possible but the trip takes 15 hours
Perhaps the 1 % or so had interrail passes?
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Originally Posted by j0nas View Post
What crap is the government throwing at you? Ap has never been more right wing than they are now.
Not true, they were more "right wing" during Stoltenberg I (but "right wing" is hardly an appropriate word)
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Originally Posted by j0nas View Post
And how will things be better under Høyre/Frp/Krf?
Less taxes, bureaucracy, and less expensive and failed political correctness => more value for money
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Originally Posted by j0nas View Post
And [email protected] a trip through western norway with "any other developed country"
Why should we not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0nas View Post
They're not right leaning compared to Frp, but compared to what they could've been and compared to what Ap used to be when it was still a labor party, they are.

Who privatised Statoil? Stoltenberg. And we could go on.
I don't know any people that want to return to Gerhardsen.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0nas View Post
The last thing they said was that they didnt want to finance Store norske leksikon because it didnt felt that it was the governments responsibility to finance things like that. Not exactly 'socialist'.

But this discussion dont belong in this thread anyway, sorry.
Certainly the store norske does not have anything to do with neither socialism nor roads, but the inability to deliver economic sustainable development projects certainly has a lot to do with the current government. Equating 1 kr to social benefits with 1 kr to investments in education or infrastructure is simply insane.
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; April 13th, 2010 at 07:42 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #1014
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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Less taxes, bureaucracy, and less expensive and failed political correctness => more value for money
Three cheers to that statement, high taxation hasn't gotten Norway very far and has just led to a class of people who don't want to work and another class of people who ride the public service gravy train leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.
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Old April 16th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #1015
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Three cheers to that statement, high taxation hasn't gotten Norway very far and has just led to a class of people who don't want to work and another class of people who ride the public service gravy train leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.
I agree. Continuously being in the top-three list over the world's best countries to live in is hopeless. Everything has been done wrong for decades, and socialists, immigrants and lazy people are, of course, to blame...

(Since I know even overt irony tends to be ignored: The previous statement was just that. Irony, that is...)

Anyways, this is NOT a political forum, and even though I've touched on the subjects a couple of years ago, it's certainly worth avoiding. Particularly if one only produces abuse that has nothing to do with our highways.

The reality is that Norwegian politics is consensus-obsessed. Sure, there are certain differences between a "conservative" and a "labour" government, but when it comes to bigger issues and the budget as a whole, the differences are minute compared to almost anywhere else. Nowhere has that been truer than when it comes to road infrastructure the past 45 years: Back in the early 60s, the Labour government intruduced a massive roadbuilding plan, but when the centre-right coalition defeated them in the 1965 general election, this plan was shelved, and no government has attempted anything remotely similar ever since.

I believe there are several reasons for this, going beyond the obvious power bias towards local politics - all Norwegian roads were basically local or county roads until the "stamvei" concept appeared. First, we have a highly developed air travel network and ships have always filled Norwegians with a sense of pride. Second, our starting point was worse than in most Western European countries. Third, projects actually constructed have commonly been seriously underdimensioned. Forth, the way projects have been financed has forced a policy of patching up things here and there, not systematic development of key routes.
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Old April 16th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Maybe we should revive the Bergen-Trondheim highway discussion.
No, I don't think we should...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
I don't know any people that want to return to Gerhardsen......
No, but as most countries found out a year ago, a certain degree of political control perhaps wasn't such a bat thing after all... That said, in terms of public infrastructure spending, a centralised social democracy like that of the 50s would have been in a far better position to deal with the major systemic upgrades both the road and rail network require.

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Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Equating 1 kr to social benefits with 1 kr to investments in education or infrastructure is simply insane.
No doubt. But that's the kind of thinking you get with New Public Management. And, as stated way earlier, I don't see an easy way out of this. Best-case scenario is PPP and other toll road systems, I fear.
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Old April 17th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #1017
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I agree. Continuously being in the top-three list over the world's best countries to live in is hopeless. Everything has been done wrong for decades, and socialists, immigrants and lazy people are, of course, to blame...

(Since I know even overt irony tends to be ignored: The previous statement was just that. Irony, that is...)
Even thought you were being ironic you are correct, lazy people and those riding the public service and social welfare gravy train can and do have a great life in Norway, that is one of the big problems with the system in Norway, it is very easy to have a fantastic life without really having to work very hard to get it.

This recent disaster and the closure of airports all over the country has really showen how crap the road network is in Norway, now if Norway had an upgraded highway network and more efficient rail links this current problem wouldn't be as big a pain in the arse as it is now. Hopefully the govt will learn a lesson from this and start to invest in improvements.
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Old April 17th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #1018
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Even thought you were being ironic you are correct, lazy people and those riding the public service and social welfare gravy train can and do have a great life in Norway, that is one of the big problems with the system in Norway, it is very easy to have a fantastic life without really having to work very hard to get it.
You know what irony means, yes..?

My point is this, though: For more reasons than I care to mention, I don't intend to make this into a political debate, at least not one about non-road-related topics. Neither should you. Not here.
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Old April 17th, 2010, 02:41 PM   #1019
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This recent disaster and the closure of airports all over the country has really showen how crap the road network is in Norway, now if Norway had an upgraded highway network and more efficient rail links this current problem wouldn't be as big a pain in the arse as it is now. Hopefully the govt will learn a lesson from this and start to invest in improvements.
Well, serious problems have occured in all countries affected by the ash, which is to be expected. You don't prepare for natural disasters that ground all flights overnight, that would require an enourmous over-capacity available at any given time anywhere. That's simply not a viable option.

Sure, Norway, with considerable travel distances and a lot of air travel, suffer more domestically than i.e. the Netherlands, but blaming bad roads? Hundreds of kms to the nearest hospital would have taken hours, even if Northern Norway had been cris-crossed by Autobahns. I'm all in favour of a better Norwegian road network, but that won't solve everything...
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Old April 21st, 2010, 08:42 AM   #1020
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Ah well I'm n a road trip right now, I looked like I couldn't get to Riga on Monday (turned out to be correct) so I drove to Stockholm and caught the ferry, now I'm sitting in Warsaw contemplating a bloodly long drive to Milano for a meeting on Friday since I'm not going to be able to get back to Molde to catch my Friday flights. So far I've driven about 1900km with another 4000 or so to go before I get home which should be Sunday night or Monday morning.

Looking forward to the Autobahn today will have to see if I can have a go at a top speed run in my Mini. Just have to remember that unless you drive a Bugatti there is always someone faster than you.

I am enjoying being able to drive at a decent 130 - 150kph, certainly makes travel by car a lot more fun, I am not looking forward to driving from Oslo to Molde.
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