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Old July 14th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #1101
Coccodrillo
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Originally Posted by Þróndeimr View Post
No, the stretch is too long and the fjord is too deep. A bridge would have to have a 3km long span, a tunnel would have to go 400m-700m below surface (deepest tunnel today goes 287m below surface).
Thank you. And what about a more inland route, near the end of the fiord?

What is the frequency of ferries on this route today?
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Old July 14th, 2010, 12:54 PM   #1102
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Looks like an interesting bridge. I hope it will be featured in megabridges on National Geographic
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Old July 14th, 2010, 01:07 PM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Thank you. And what about a more inland route, near the end of the fiord?

What is the frequency of ferries on this route today?
Ferries run each 30min daytime, each hour in evening, no ferries between 01.00 and 05.00. Looking at the map there are a more inland rout, but it has a much longer ferry rout and road.

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Old July 14th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #1104
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Thank you. And what is the average frequency of ferries on less busiest routes? Some udnersea tunnels have only 100 to 500 vehicles per day, so I imagine that once there were only a dozen or less ferry trips per day.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 02:19 PM   #1105
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most ferries have hourly routes daytime (even down to 50 vehicles per day routes), just smaller ferries on less busy routes.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #1106
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Thank you. And what about a more inland route, near the end of the fiord?
The problem regarding this, is that the project - which by no means is an impossible (or even especially difficult) feat of engineering - would be rather expensive. Back in the 80s, when the rest of the ferries along the E6 were replaced by bridges or new roads, the plans were pretty concrete. But as Throndheimr says, it was a more complex project and as the 80s became the 90s, such projects were not very popular anymore. The current (very slight) boost in road development has mainly been focused on developing poorer sections of the road network, particularly the busiest sections around Oslo and other cities.

That said, a decent new road was built to Kjøpsvik to the north of the Tysfjord some 15 years ago (don't remember exactly when). It could serve as a decent northern half of a fjord crossing until someone eventually decides to replace the entire crappy E6 section between Tysfjord and Narvik. However, a fixed Tysfjord link between Drag and Kjøpsvik would still require political lobbying on a very different scale than what we see today. Also, one should remember that even though this is the E6, the AADT figures are pretty low (around 1000, if I were to hazard a guess). However, a new link, possibly combined with a fixed Ofotfjord link to Vesterålen, could have a real potential for the northernmost region.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #1107
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Tysfjorden is crossable in the outer parts of the fjord at 285 meters deep. Meaning a tunnel at 330 meters deep. And without looking at it closer I guess it would require a 20 km long tunnel.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #1108
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Tysfjorden is crossable in the outer parts of the fjord at 285 meters deep. Meaning a tunnel at 330 meters deep. And without looking at it closer I guess it would require a 20 km long tunnel.
True. That's why that isn't particularly realistic. Bridging the narrower (and way deeper!) part further in, is the only reasonably feasable solution.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 12:15 AM   #1109
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To be exact, in 2006 the Tysfjord crossing had a whopping ADDT of 386. The busies ferries crossings in Norway (Moss-Horten, Boknafjord, and Trondheimsfjorden (Flakk-Rørvik) are all in the thousands, with much higher potential should the ferries be eliminated. You have to remember that most people living north of Tysfjord use alternative routes (through Sweden) when going to southern Norway.

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With the target a ferry free connection between Trondheim and Kristiansund/Molde the Halsafjord project is the only solution. The Talgsjø project compared to the Halsafjord project will only benefit those who live at the western parts of Tustna. As you can see from the picture below they suggest both a tunnel from Halsa to Tustna, and a tunnel from Tingvold to Frei. Giving most people that live in Aure a better connection to both Trondheim, Molde and Kristiansund. While people living at the western part of Tustna would prefer the Talgsjø project as that's the better connection for them to Kristiansund and Molde.

Talgsjø project will close one ferry. Halsafjord project will close three ferries.
On a slightly more realistic note, it seems like Halsafjord is getting some momentum now, and Kristiansund has said they prefer it to Talgsjøen. I doubt that the side tunnels to Frei and Tustna will have much chance, however.

If the Halsafjord crossing is realized, in addition to the probably more expensive (but more trafficated) Romsdalsfjord crossing, Trondheim-Ålesund will be ferry free, and Kjello can start to work for the second tube...
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Old July 15th, 2010, 12:24 AM   #1110
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Amazing how they replace all these ferries with large bridges for relatively small towns. I've read it's often better to build a bridge for 2,000 AADT than keep running subsidized ferry's. It's cheaper in the long-term.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 12:54 AM   #1111
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Norwegian started to build tunnels at Vardø: 2800 metres for 2400 inhabitants and an AADT of 600.

But some undersea tunnels have an AADT of only 100 (this is the case for easier project, this one has only one 1800 and one 400 m tunnels in a new 8 km road).
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Old July 15th, 2010, 03:42 AM   #1112
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On a slightly more realistic note, it seems like Halsafjord is getting some momentum now, and Kristiansund has said they prefer it to Talgsjøen. I doubt that the side tunnels to Frei and Tustna will have much chance, however.

If the Halsafjord crossing is realized, in addition to the probably more expensive (but more trafficated) Romsdalsfjord crossing, Trondheim-Ålesund will be ferry free, and Kjello can start to work for the second tube...
You know I won't be satisfied before we got a motorway from at least Halsa to Ulsteinvik and preferably all the way from Ørsta/Volda to Trondheim. Luckily a future Halsafjordtunnel will be 12-15 km long, which means two tubes anyways. But as stated, I won't stop whining before Norwegian politicians shows some visions and ambitions.



With a motorway between Trondheim and Steinkjer the total driving time from north to southwest in Central Norway would be about 3 hours.

Motorway the whole way from Steinkjer to Ørsta/Volda is roughly estemated to cost 39 billion NOK. Devide it over 15 years building and that's 2,6 billions a year. The goverment draws in over 60 billions in car, road and fuel taxes every year, but only use 15 of them on roads which of only 5 goes to new roads. A massive 35 of those 60 billions is never even used on infrastructure.

If the goverment actually started using 40 billions a year on roads, which of 25 went to build new roads we would have fantastic roads within 20 years. I must say that I want to actually live long enough to see that happen. Sadly I fear that I as my parents will grow old with the same old road going 100 meters from our house.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #1113
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To be exact, in 2006 the Tysfjord crossing had a whopping ADDT of 386. The busies ferries crossings in Norway (Moss-Horten, Boknafjord, and Trondheimsfjorden (Flakk-Rørvik) are all in the thousands, with much higher potential should the ferries be eliminated. You have to remember that most people living north of Tysfjord use alternative routes (through Sweden) when going to southern Norway.
I don't dispute any of these points - I'm not even in favour of replacing the Boknafjord ferry anytime soon. Too expensive, too little to be gained from it. That said, it doesn't mean that it won't happen given strong enough lobbyism. As you know, local and regional politicians may influence such decisions in a big way... Besides, a ferry free E6 is a far better idea than a 150 million Euro tunnel to the North Cape. Oh wait, the latter has already been built...
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Old July 15th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #1114
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Norway is one of the richest countries in the world. If they are not willing to spend money on a larger motorway system, replacing ferries with bridges and tunnels is a good idea as well.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #1115
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Norway is one of the richest countries in the world. If they are not willing to spend money on a larger motorway system, replacing ferries with bridges and tunnels is a good idea as well.
Well, the problem is that Norwegian politicians aren't particularly willing to spend too much money on infrastructure at all. There are several reasons for this, but the main problem is that any form of government spending is considered to be an issue, inflation-wise, and no form of spending is considered more worthwhile than others. A former Labour party MP and minister commented on the absurdity of this: "In the current climate, building roads or railways are no better in budgetary terms than eating money"...

In my opinion, we should pursue a three-pronged strategy in terms of road maintainance and construction: 1. Build motorways where the AADT pushes 10,000. 2. Improve trunk roads to a sensible and safe standard. 3. Maintain the remaining network better. The latter would also include widening or realigning of road sections that are way below acceptable standard. Just as we eliminated gravel sections from our national network 20 years ago, we should eliminate 1-lane sections.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #1116
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Dear neighbours :P I'm thinking of doing this: http://maps.google.se/maps?f=d&sourc...48&ie=UTF8&z=6 roadtrip. Any must see places along this stretch? Small detours are acceptable as well.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 08:02 PM   #1117
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Grønligrotta near Mo i Rana, a 20km detour, but worth it. http://www.gronligrotta.no/

Hikes to Svartisen glacier?
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Old July 15th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #1118
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Any must see places along this stretch? Small detours are acceptable as well.
Lofoten is beautiful, but you might wanna give Vesterålen a try as well. Langøya is more than worth a visit, as is Andøya. The trip grows a bit, but still... You might also consider the outer part of Hamarøya and the Knut Hamsun centre. Henningsvær is also nice and not much of a detour, the same goes for Å, at the very end of the Lofoten road. Værøy and Røst are pretty spectacular, but require extra time.

Anyways, enjoy your trip. A lot of beautiful things to see and experience!
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Old July 16th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #1119
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On this site, you'll find information on the official "tourist routes". Quite a few pretty pictures...

http://www.turistveg.no/
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Old July 21st, 2010, 01:24 PM   #1120
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Swedish motorcylist killed on E6 in Rennebu. It's incredible how E6 can have those bridges. Also, E6 Trondheim - Oslo should have 2+1 (mötesfri landsväg) as mininum standard

Link to article (in norwegian): http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/sortro...cle1508630.ece

Last edited by metasmurf; July 21st, 2010 at 01:31 PM.
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