daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 26th, 2010, 02:03 AM   #1161
Sponsor
Registered User
 
Sponsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Poznań
Posts: 8,583



Who gets priority here? I pressume a car going on right lane. Or not?
Sponsor no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 26th, 2010, 02:37 AM   #1162
Inconfidente
Registered User
 
Inconfidente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belo Horizonte
Posts: 18,190
Likes (Received): 15068

Isn't the narrrow shoulder combined with the guard rail a risk?
Inconfidente no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 04:47 AM   #1163
Fargo Wolf
Resident Smartass.
 
Fargo Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Port Kepler, Galilei Continent, Chakona
Posts: 685
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sponsor View Post


Who gets priority here? I pressume a car going on right lane. Or not?
I would be guessing that the right lane would merge left. I guess it all depends on how traffic is positioned as the lanes end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inconfidente View Post
Isn't the narrrow shoulder combined with the guard rail a risk?
Not necessarily. The guardrail simple separates the traffic. If you look closely, about half the shoulder is paved, so it's possible to pretty much get off the traveled portion of the road. I'm also guessing that the sight lines are excellent for whatever the posted limit is too, so a vehicle pulled over as far right as practicable, with hazard lights on, can be seen from a considerable distance.
Fargo Wolf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 04:54 AM   #1164
Inconfidente
Registered User
 
Inconfidente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belo Horizonte
Posts: 18,190
Likes (Received): 15068

Good then. That was my only worry. I thought the shoulder was too tight for a car.
Inconfidente no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 04:56 AM   #1165
Fargo Wolf
Resident Smartass.
 
Fargo Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Port Kepler, Galilei Continent, Chakona
Posts: 685
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inconfidente View Post
Good then. That was my only worry. I thought the shoulder was too tight for a car.
You have to look REALLY closely, but it can be done... You are right though, it would be on the tight side.
Fargo Wolf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #1166
koloite
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gildehaus
Posts: 62
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sponsor View Post


Who gets priority here? I pressume a car going on right lane. Or not?
No, actually no-one gets priority. That is why the complete arrow is painted red, to indicate that vehicles in both lanes have equal priority (no priority). You are supposed to cooperate in order to get an efficient merge.

This is also normal in both Norway and Denmark at motorway entrances. You will see a sign that indicates that a motorway entrance is up ahead, and that the cars entering the motorway and the cars in the right lane of the motorway have equal priority.

This is the Norwegian version:


This is what it would look like if the right lane would have to merge with the left lane, giving priority to the vehicles in the left lane:
koloite no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #1167
Sponsor
Registered User
 
Sponsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Poznań
Posts: 8,583

Didn't know about that. This equal equal priority would be risky solution in Poland.
Sponsor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 02:42 PM   #1168
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

As far as I know, it is only used in Denmark and Norway. I'm not really a fan of it, I rather have clear rules about who has priority and who has not. It could mean trouble on busy motorways. That is why traffic on the motorway has always priority over traffic entering the motorway in other European countries.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #1169
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As far as I know, it is only used in Denmark and Norway. I'm not really a fan of it, I rather have clear rules about who has priority and who has not. It could mean trouble on busy motorways. That is why traffic on the motorway has always priority over traffic entering the motorway in other European countries.
Why? You have a passing lane on your right. If you're to busy to you're supposed to change lane. This works perfectly in Norway. Even on roads with 60-70 000 AaDT.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 05:16 PM   #1170
Kjello0
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 394
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiRob View Post
I find the automated toll roads interesting, one of my cars always gets billed, the other one never does. We have been in Trondheim 4-5 times since the new toll system started, only been billed once when we took my car.
They sum up the tolls. You first get a bill when you've reached 250 kr. If not you get a bill 3 months afterwards.
Kjello0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #1171
katia72
Registered User
 
katia72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oslo
Posts: 223
Likes (Received): 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As far as I know, it is only used in Denmark and Norway. I'm not really a fan of it, I rather have clear rules about who has priority and who has not. It could mean trouble on busy motorways. That is why traffic on the motorway has always priority over traffic entering the motorway in other European countries.
When the speed limit is ONLY 100 then there is no problem here i Norway.....but thats is my opinion.
IT WOULD NEVER WORKED IN POLAND.
katia72 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 05:38 PM   #1172
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

Even at 80 km/h, you don't want traffic braking all the time on a densely packed motorway when traffic entering the motorway has priority. It can create additional delays and congestion.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #1173
Ingenioren
Registered User
 
Ingenioren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 5,605
Likes (Received): 584

It's fine to have merging lanes at the end of a motorway like in above posted photo, but under no circumstance should a motorway give right to an accesramp...
__________________
I want to see some construction!
Ingenioren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 03:40 AM   #1174
IceCheese
Scandi-friendly
 
IceCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada is my city
Posts: 7,228
Likes (Received): 925

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Even at 80 km/h, you don't want traffic braking all the time on a densely packed motorway when traffic entering the motorway has priority. It can create additional delays and congestion.
For the first NO ONE HAS PRIORITY. Not the ones entering, not the ones already on the motorway.

The whole point with an access lane is that you have a long stretch to match your speed with the current speed of the motorway. Then you and traffic on the motorway merge as best can on the motorway. If you give a little or the cars on the motorway give a little, that really doesn't matter. Eitherway no one will have to break in such high speeds. The merging stretch is LONG.
An alternate and also common especially on motorways with low traffic, is that the cars driving on the inner lane just go into the outer lane. This is what creates the most efficient traffic flow in motorway junctions.
__________________
Oslo/Copenhagen - The True Capital of Scandinavia.


Take a look at my Photo Mess!
IceCheese no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 10:29 AM   #1175
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCheese View Post
For the first NO ONE HAS PRIORITY. Not the ones entering, not the ones already on the motorway.
Well, that is the problem in my opinion. Traffic rules need to be clear. Who is to blame in a side-by-side accident?

Quote:
The whole point with an access lane is that you have a long stretch to match your speed with the current speed of the motorway. Then you and traffic on the motorway merge as best can on the motorway. If you give a little or the cars on the motorway give a little, that really doesn't matter. Eitherway no one will have to break in such high speeds. The merging stretch is LONG.
From what I've seen, the main problem is that a lot of people don't use more than 1/4th of the merging lane length, many go to the left as soon as they reach the mainline lanes, even if their speed is lower than that of the traffic on the motorway.

Quote:
An alternate and also common especially on motorways with low traffic, is that the cars driving on the inner lane just go into the outer lane. This is what creates the most efficient traffic flow in motorway junctions.
This happens often, but you cannot just go to the left all the time at a motorway that is approaching capacity. I reckon this doesn't happen in Norway all the time, but it could be problematic at motorways with high traffic volumes, such as around Oslo. At busy motorways, you will need as few turbulence as possible. There is a reason why electronic signs in the UK say "congestion ahead, stay in lane".
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 06:29 PM   #1176
ElviS77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 564
Likes (Received): 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As far as I know, it is only used in Denmark and Norway. I'm not really a fan of it, I rather have clear rules about who has priority and who has not. It could mean trouble on busy motorways. That is why traffic on the motorway has always priority over traffic entering the motorway in other European countries.
The system is, if I remember correctly, also used in Sweden. Nonetheless, I agree, there should be a clear order of priority. It's not as though it doesn't work regarding merging, but, curiously enough, merging works better in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, for instance, countries with a clear priority rule...
ElviS77 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #1177
Spikespiegel
Used Registrant
 
Spikespiegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, that is the problem in my opinion. Traffic rules need to be clear. Who is to blame in a side-by-side accident?
But there ARE clear and strict rules to merging in both Denmark and Norway.

Merging traffic has to adjust their speed so it matches the speed o nthe first lane of the motorway. Is this lane occupied only by trucks, then merging traffic has to adjust their speed to 80 km/h.

You have to merge in the order you arrive at the merging point. So if you have someone just in front of you to the side, he will get priority over you, regardless whether he is on the motorway or the merging lane.

A merging lane is considered part of the motorways first lane, and thus merging traffic are not allowed to overtake on the inside of traffic already on the motorway, just like people on the motorway aren't allowed to pass people on the merging lane, unless they change to the second lane of the motorway.
Spikespiegel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #1178
Maxx☢Power
BANNED
 
Maxx☢Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 387
Likes (Received): 3

I think it makes more sense that traffic entering a road should always yield to traffic already on it. The entire point of a motorway is to remove the need for drivers to have to react to traffic on intersecting roads (which an on ramp is). You can be nice and move over or slow down if that doesn't affect the traffic flow to let others join, but if you're on the motorway you should always have priority. Also if two regular driving lanes merge into one it should be clear which lane "disappears" so drivers in that lane can move to the other well ahead of the actual merge point.

(Denmark doesn't even have merging lanes in a lot of places, the ramp enters directly onto the rightmost lane)
Maxx☢Power no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 09:50 PM   #1179
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

Quote:
(Denmark doesn't even have merging lanes in a lot of places, the ramp enters directly onto the rightmost lane)
Yes, and they also do not have proper merging lanes when you exit the motorway. I saw many exits around larger cities in Denmark where traffic was queued on the shoulder.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #1180
Maxx☢Power
BANNED
 
Maxx☢Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 387
Likes (Received): 3

I kind of like it though; you just kind of throw yourself off the motorway and then start thinking about braking (or just let gravity do the work, as these ramps are always uphill), as opposed to the turn-right/straighten-up/break with a "merge off" lane. (Not to mention stepping on the brakes when you realise your speed is way too high to make that cloverleaf turn with a 40 limit)
Maxx☢Power no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
norway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium