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Old November 25th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #1201
Kjello0
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10 years. Just ******* crazy! Seems like it's the municipalities that use most time. Three years on kommunedelplan and two years on reguleringsplan. Should be possible to do that in 1 year.
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Old November 25th, 2010, 03:49 PM   #1202
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That's faster than the Dutch average of 14 years (until recently).
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Old December 8th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #1203
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Street-view coverage drasticly improved now
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Old December 8th, 2010, 07:04 PM   #1204
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With this updated street view of Norway, what strikes me is how many parts of the E6 in the north that only has one lane. I mean, I know many secondary roads here in the north of Sweden with, what I assume, lower AADT which are wider. Are there any plans to fix these one lane parts? I for one find it very strange that the main road connecting Norway doesn't have better standard.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #1205
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Now you understand what Norwegian forum members are complaining about

Though traffic volumes north of Steinkjer are probably pretty low on E6, most likely lower than on E4 in northern Sweden.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 07:20 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Now you understand what Norwegian forum members are complaining about

Though traffic volumes north of Steinkjer are probably pretty low on E6, most likely lower than on E4 in northern Sweden.
What I meant was secondary roads, E-roads and even Riksvägar aside, with lower AADT than E6 that have better standard.

Two examples:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=6...08.98,,0,15.29

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=6...,176.5,,0,-4.2

These are roads in literally the middle of nowhere with no national importance whatsoever. They don't even have road numbers in google maps.


As compared to this, the main road through norway:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=6...,38.87,,0,4.42

I really don't understand why a rich country can't have main roads in proper conditions. How are two trucks supposed to pass each other on a narrow road like that? No wonder they make huge detours through Sweden.

Last edited by metasmurf; December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #1207
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Not only are the Swedish roads better, the distance is in fact shorter as well via Sweden if you want to drive from southern to Tromsø or thereabouts and nortwards. You will miss a lot of fantastic scenery, though....

Regarding E6, the quality is probably poorest through the third northernmst county, Nordland,metasmurf's example come from. Another examples are here and here from Majavatn in the southern end of the county (appears to be fixed).

However, if you take AADTs in consideration, some roads further south is IMO far worse. A few examples to follow....

Some examples from the main highway between Oslo and Trondheim (E6 /Rv 3), for none of them there are definitive widening plans afaik
Example 1
Example 2 (the bridge is only repaired, not widened!)
Example 3
Example 4
Example 5

One example from the E14 connecting Trondheim with Sweden (no plans for a fix):
Example close to a fairly densely populated area in Norwegian terms, 12 km or so from Trondheim airport

One example from the (official) main Bergen - Oslo road. Improvements underway?

From the E134, Drammen-Haugesund, but also used for Oslo-Bergen.

From E39, main coastal highway between Trondheim-Ålesund (-Bergen-Kristiansund)

And, the "prime" example of Norwegian infrastructure must again be the 25 000 AADT or thereabouts Sluppen bridge within Trondheim...
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; December 10th, 2010 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Some more examples added again...
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Old December 11th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #1208
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There are plans of improving the whole stretch of E6 and Rv3 from south of Trondheim to Oppland/Hedmark county border. This includes fixing of example 1, 2 and 3. Of course, not much is decided jet, but example 3 is in Statens vegvesens "handlingsplan" for 2010-2013 (as a part of moving E6 outside Soknedal), and the financing of that specific project is in fact governmental (according to the plan). Still, most of the projects on the stretch elsewhere is going to be partly toll financed, with some governmental financing (but I think it's a good idea to make one toll project for the whole stretch). What happens in Soknedal (ex. 3), is that the locals nearly oppose the project, because they want 2 (two) interchanges on about 500 metres (the road is planning to be moved away from the "city" centre, and have one interchange south of the "city" centre). So, the locals say that if they don't get two interchanges it's just okay to have the road as it is. Anyway, the politicians had "guts" to say yes to the project this week (a year after the project first was ment to be decided by the politicians). Of course, I see why the locals want two interchanges, but still I think only one is the best solution. Now, the building of the road hopefully will start in 2012, and complete in 2014-2015, and then example 3 will hopefully not be a part of E6 soon.

Regarding to example 1 and 2, things are much more "in the blue". It's a "KVU" (sort of "pre-plan") in production, see http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter...landgrjaktoyen (unfortunately just in Norwegian), but hopefully the building of more of the projects on the stretch starts in some years (at least we can hope...). One of the things delaying one of the major projects, the improving of E6 Håggåtunnelen-Skjerdingstad to motorway, is that Bondelaget (Norwegian Agrarian Association) wants the road to go high up in the mountains, to save some agriculture land... Then the road will go in "no-where" and only those going the whole stretch from Håggåtunnelen to Skjerdingstad will in practice use it (Statens vegvesen says it's possible with a interchange between this points, but only a few cars will use the interchange if they are going to build it (if the road should go there)). I'm pretty sure the road will not be build there, I think they just want to say to Bondelaget that "We've studied it a lot, and we can't build the road there". Still, it's sad, the project will be delayed for minimum one year. And the Sluppen bridge will hopefully be built soon, as the project is a part of the (partly) toll financed Miljøpakken (which also includes improving E6 Jaktøyen-Tonstad to motorway).

And why we don't expand our roads in Norway? Simply because some of the people in the Ministry of Finance has calculated that we "lose" 43 øre for each (one) krone we invest in roads and railways. Everybody (at least almost everybody), except those who did the calculation, sees this as complete rubbish (well, I'll even include most politicians, because they mostly wants to invest more in infrastructure, but are not allowed to do that by the people in the Ministry of Finance...). But to build oil installations on the coast for 100 billions each year, is completely ok........................ (See for instance http://www.bygg.no/2010/12/investeri...l-er-loennsomt, unfortunately just in Norwegian).

My first post here (Sorry if I've some spelling mistakes, but I think that the facts are correct)
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Old December 11th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #1209
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Welcome to the forum, MKA123!

Of course I am aware that there are plans. We are very "good" at planning in Norway. However, it seems much more difficult to actually construct the road. In the national transport plan, NTP 2010-2019, the only fix they actually halfway commit to is "Example 3" in E6 Soknedalen, as you say. However, if they cannot agree on the exact solution, nothing will happen for years even there. KVUs are in principle great, as it in theory forces the road authorities to see things in perspective and not only for a km at a time. But, as you can see in my post above, the planning in Norway even without KVUs take at least 9 years, so unfortunately KVUs might just delay any action even more. I remember they talked about fixing Soknedalen in the early 80s.....

Regarding the stretches of E6 which in my mind should be fixed first are E6 Tonstad-Jaktøyen (Trondheim / Melhus) and Skjerdingstad - Håggåtunnelen (Melhus). These stretches have much higher traffic than the examples I showed, in the former case up to 28 000 AADT on a two-lane road. Tonstad - Jaktøyen is fully planned, but NTP prescribes construction only with 100% + vat=125 % toll for building that road, which is politcal suicide, so nothing will happen. Regarding, Skjerdingstad-Håggåtunnelen, they have not even managed to complete high level plan after all these years....

Oslo-Trondheim is by the way the most trafficated long distance freight route of Norway:

Most of the truck traffic (pink color) follows Rv 3 (roughly 90 % as far as I remember)
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Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; December 11th, 2010 at 09:50 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Welcome to the forum, MKA123!
Thanks!

And I thought you were aware of the plans, I just wanted to explain (to others) that at least something is going on. Even though I don't think it's necessary to plan so much as showed in the "map" in your earlier post on some of the bad points (needing upgrading) since that's quite "simple" stuff needing to be done there (simple widening, improving the curves etc.), I don't expect much to happen on at least a couple of years on the stretch Støren-Oppland/Hedmark, and not Håggåtunnelen-Skjerdingstad either. But, Håggåtunnelen-Skjerdingstad is both highly trafficked and it's quite a lot of accidents on this stretch (as I'm sure you're aware of). As a consequence of that, I hope the planning goes quite fast, but honestly, I don't believe in that...

As for Tonstad-Jaktøyen it's planned to start building on the first section, Tonstad-Sentervegen, in october 2011 (with planned opening in 2014), but this is Norway... (Still, it's quite a lot pressure on the parts behind "Miljøpakken" (Trondheim kommune, Sør-Trøndelag fylkeskommune og Statens vegvesen) to make this project quickly finish, since the toll on this stretch is quite unpopular...)
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Old December 13th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #1211
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That is correct, but Tonstad-Sentervegen is only 1 km long. Even in Norwegian terms this is not a very impressive four year progress for a toll financed project. The rest of the project is in the blue. (Remember that it is mainly out-of-town voters that complain about Klett. The Trondheim politicians are not accountable to those...)

Back to everyday reality of Norwegian roads. We are now again at the time of year when foreign trucks learn the reality of Norwegian roads the hard way. It is fairly easy for an unskilled / unprepared truck to block the southern entrance to Trondheim (the aforementioned E6 Tonstad-Jaktøyen like on yesterday (Sunday)
Video

Fv (formerly Rv) 714 is called the "Salmon Road" because almost all of Sør-Trøndelag's salmon export, worth more than 4 billion NOK, passes this way. This is what the trucks have to endure: yet another steep a steep, narrow, and winding road:

Quite often ending up like on last Friday:

I.e., the road being closed for hours, with absolutely no alternative routes available.

The good news is that something is actually happening here, through tolls of course, but nevertheless it seems like most of the current 58 km will be fixed. Part of the road will also get new alignment with bridges an tunnels, such that the new length will be 45 km. Construction has just started on a smaller (the worst?) stretch.
Map:


Here is a animation for some of the future realigned parts.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:29 PM   #1212
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Auto insurance in Norway

Hi all,

Figured this might be the right place for these questions(if maybe a bit off topic). My wife and I might move to Norway this summer(she is Norwegian). We're currently living in the UK. I have my British driving licence now, as well as my Californian drivers license. My wife has never owned a car, even though she's had her Norwegian drivers license since 2003. I'm wondering the following.

First, What is the maximum amount of time I can keep a British, or for that matter, or foreign car in Norway? What I am hearing from people is that I can drive that car in Norway for up to 1 year. After that, I must either stop driving it, or convert it to Norwegian plates.(I love trying to pass a Tine milk truck on a narrow mountain road being sitting right side of the car!!) Can someone confirm this or is the time amount different?

My 2nd question is, anyone have any good tips on cheap car insurance? I know that "cheap" and "Norway" don't sometimes go together real well, but want to get a sense of what realistic prices my wife and I can expect to pay. Again, I am "hearing" that around NOK 10.000 a year is normal. Is this a right amount or is it off? What are some reputable Norwegian companies that charge decent rates?

Thirdly, how will the insurance companies look at me in terms of rates? Will they take my 1 year driving in the UK(the time I've had my British licence, but drove the legal year before that on my Californian license) into account since Norway is part of the EEA? Is there anyway that they can take my California driving record into account(15 years of no accidents, and only 1 speeding ticket).

Appreciate any info. :-)
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Old January 19th, 2011, 10:12 PM   #1213
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I don't think that the UK driving licence will ever be a problem, and I would think that it probably counts the same as a Norwegian one, as they have to adopt most EU law anyway. As for the CA record, I´m really not sure but it would most likely be the same as whatever happened to you in the UK.
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Old January 20th, 2011, 11:21 PM   #1214
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Not much happening on this thread lately I guess... :-/

Last edited by JeremyCastle; January 20th, 2011 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Correcting a spelling mistake.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 12:07 AM   #1215
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It's not the most active H&A thread no.

From what I've heard and read, the British insurance premiums are insane compared to most other European countries, but "cheap" and "Norway" are not two words regularly used in one sentence, so I don't really know about that.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 02:19 AM   #1216
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My friends moved from Ireland to Oslo for approx. 1 year ago. They had a used car with UK plates. Now they try to get rid of it because its too expensive to get Norwegian plates on it. They found out that it is cheaper to lease a new car and even get 20% discount on the insurance. It will cost them around. 2600kr per month.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 02:21 AM   #1217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyCastle View Post
Hi all,

Figured this might be the right place for these questions(if maybe a bit off topic). My wife and I might move to Norway this summer(she is Norwegian). We're currently living in the UK. I have my British driving licence now, as well as my Californian drivers license. My wife has never owned a car, even though she's had her Norwegian drivers license since 2003. I'm wondering the following.

First, What is the maximum amount of time I can keep a British, or for that matter, or foreign car in Norway? What I am hearing from people is that I can drive that car in Norway for up to 1 year. After that, I must either stop driving it, or convert it to Norwegian plates.(I love trying to pass a Tine milk truck on a narrow mountain road being sitting right side of the car!!) Can someone confirm this or is the time amount different?

My 2nd question is, anyone have any good tips on cheap car insurance? I know that "cheap" and "Norway" don't sometimes go together real well, but want to get a sense of what realistic prices my wife and I can expect to pay. Again, I am "hearing" that around NOK 10.000 a year is normal. Is this a right amount or is it off? What are some reputable Norwegian companies that charge decent rates?

Thirdly, how will the insurance companies look at me in terms of rates? Will they take my 1 year driving in the UK(the time I've had my British licence, but drove the legal year before that on my Californian license) into account since Norway is part of the EEA? Is there anyway that they can take my California driving record into account(15 years of no accidents, and only 1 speeding ticket).

Appreciate any info. :-)
My friends moved from Ireland to Oslo for approx. 1 year ago. They had a used car with UK plates. Now they try to get rid of it because its too expensive to get Norwegian plates on it. They found out that it is cheaper to lease a new car and even get 20% discount on the insurance. It will cost them around. 2600kr per month.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 12:48 PM   #1218
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1. If you plan to establish in Norway permanent it's in general not allowed to use any foreign car in Norway. The toll department can give you a temporary allowance, but I doubt that last more than a month. 1 year is the limit if you're only temporary living in Norway.

2. It all depends on what type of insurance you want, what type of car you have and of course at what bonus level you get. But even with an older car, only the required responsibility insurance and the start bonus of 20 % will cost 5-7000 with a normal driving distance (20 000 km).

I paid 3 247 kr back in October for the required responsibility insurance with 50 % bonus and 12 000 km on a 94 Opel Vectra 2.0i.

So for a newer car and hence a bigger insurance it will probably easy come up in 10 000. Even with a higher bonus rate.

Gjensidige, IF and Tryg (former TrygVesta) is the big guys in insurance. But asking as many as possible will of course save you money.

Most insurance companies in Norway give you an additional bonus if you have several insurances in the same company. When I got my current insurance back in 2007 I first went to IF as my local bank use IF. Then I found out that the total insurance price would be lower if I in addition to the car insurance bought a travel insurance.

3. How the insurance company will look at your drivers licence I have no clue. But I will find it strange if you're treated like if you just got your first car and recently your licence. But I would also be surprised if you're treated like if you've lived in Norway the whole time.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 04:08 AM   #1219
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Thanks Kjell! That helps. Appreciate it.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 12:34 PM   #1220
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Are you talking about monthly rates here? €300 - €400+ per month for car insurance only would be totally insane imo.

Last edited by Jeroen669; January 23rd, 2011 at 12:43 PM.
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