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Old February 24th, 2011, 07:28 PM   #1241
Fargo Wolf
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I think the suspension bridge would be the most feasible, if a fixed crossing were to be constructed. The floating tunnel is interesting, though I doubt one will ever be built, owing to technical/safety challenges.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 08:03 PM   #1242
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The most feasible solution would probably to have the fjord crossing at the mouth of the fjord where it is shallow enough for a tunnel, as Kjello has proposed: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=802

In any case, Sognefjorden should be the last E39 fjord crossing to be constructed. The traffic is not very high.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 08:48 PM   #1243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
I think the suspension bridge would be the most feasible, if a fixed crossing were to be constructed.
Uhm, a 3.7 km span is almost double the current longest span for a suspension bridge. The bridge towers would need to be incredibly high. The Sognefjord is probably quite deep, although Norway does have other subsea tunnels that are more than 100 meters below sea level.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 09:27 PM   #1244
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Sognefjorden is the deepest fjord in Norway. Deepest point is -1 308m.

Tried to find out how deep it is where E39 crosses, but both maps showing that kind of info seemed to be completely ****ed up today. But my guess is that its somewhere between 500 and 1000m deep.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:53 PM   #1245
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Italians are planning a bridge-span nearly as long as this one. There are a number of simpler and more urgent crossings to build before this one tough. That's the beauty of Norwegian geography, we never run out of fjord-crossing projects, that's for sure =) At the moment we have Dalsfjordsambandet, Sandsfjordbrua, Hardangerbrua, Hidratunnelen, Kveĝyforbindelsen, Ryaforbindelsen, Kċfjordbrua, Langsundforbindelsen, T-forbindelsen. And in near future Ryfast, Rogfast, Hċlogalandsbrua, Sotrasambandet, Bjarkĝyforbindelsen. Then Mĝreaksen, Hordfast, Moss- Horten, Nordfjord. =) And way into the future, Sognefjorden.

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Norway does have other subsea tunnels that are more than 100 meters below sea level.
We currently have 21 tunnels going 100 meters below sea level. Deepest going 287m below sea level.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #1246
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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
Which one is Sognefjorden, this one?
No, it's this one
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Can't they re-route the E39 further inland to avoid building a huge bridge, or is the terrain too difficult?
It would be rather a reroute - the first place where the crossing would be narrower is near where the RV5 crosses, about 60km further in. And even then it's a large bridge that would be needed.

Lets just say it's a non-starter.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #1247
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Bergen - Stavanger will naturally be ferry-free long before - but all E39 ferries (except Denmark) are under study at the moment for a long-term ferry free road. Rogfast will begin construction during the next 5 years to connect Stavanger - Haugesund by a 25km sub-sea tunnel. For Hordfast, Haugesund - Bergen there are several alternatives including a bridge leading the road inland aswell as a longer and more direct alternative to Sotra.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #1248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ŝróndeimr View Post
Sognefjorden is the deepest fjord in Norway. Deepest point is -1 308m.

Tried to find out how deep it is where E39 crosses, but both maps showing that kind of info seemed to be completely ****ed up today. But my guess is that its somewhere between 500 and 1000m deep.
I took a ferry cruise between Kaupanger and Gudvangen last summer, and there, I was informed, the depth was about 900 m. There is no reason to think that it's much shallower at Lavik...
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Old February 25th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #1249
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I've read a report about a toll bridge in Estonia (Saaremaa Bridge) that would replace a ferry link. It was stated that even a 7 kilometer bridge was cheaper than operating the subsidized ferry link in the long term. So I think replacing ferries by bridges or tunnels goes beyond travel times, but also goes into economics. Road traffic also emits less pollution than a ferry. One ferry passage emits as much as all projected road traffic in a day. (the ferry goes 15 times a day)
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Old February 25th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #1250
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I see a need for 2 more Oslofjord crossings eventually. One Nesodden - Fornebu and one Moss - Horten. Most likely these would also be tunnels. (Unfortunatly...)

Nesodden - Fornebu doesn't have a ferry, so that would be a tough one to pass trough, but the detour around is large. Moss - Horten has more trafic than any other national ferry route.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 11:34 PM   #1251
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At the point where the current ferry goes the fjord is up to 1269 meters deep.

Regarding a possible bridge, as far as my measurements, it's possible cross Sognefjorden with a 3,1 km long span just next to my proposed tunnel.

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Old February 26th, 2011, 12:08 AM   #1252
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I agree with you that we should move E39 further west than it is now, there is also an alternative that is 20 years old via Sollund:


http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/n...dane/1.7316465
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Old March 10th, 2011, 01:49 PM   #1253
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Reducing the speed limits on Norwegian highways

New criteria for speed-limits means 420 km of 80 km/h highway will get reduced to 70km/h and 70 km of 90 km/h will be reduced to 80 km/h. Goal of this reduction is 10-15 less deaths/serious injuries per year.

http://www.vegvesen.no/Om+Statens+ve...Vis?key=203760
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Old March 10th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #1254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Reducing the speed limits on Norwegian highways

New criteria for speed-limits means 420 km of 80 km/h highway will get reduced to 70km/h and 70 km of 90 km/h will be reduced to 80 km/h. Goal of this reduction is 10-15 less deaths/serious injuries per year.

http://www.vegvesen.no/Om+Statens+ve...Vis?key=203760
Given the substandard condition of many Norwegian roads, I guess it's justifiable.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:02 PM   #1255
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I agree, but it would be even more justifiable if we did also follow Swedens example and increase speed limit for 1+1 rumble roads to 90 km/h, 2+1 divided expressways to 100 km/h and motorways to 110/120 km/h at the same time.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 06:55 PM   #1256
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I agree, but it would be even more justifiable if we did also follow Swedens example and increase speed limit for 1+1 rumble roads to 90 km/h, 2+1 divided expressways to 100 km/h and motorways to 110/120 km/h at the same time.
Agreed 100%. 100km/h is a ridiculous speedlimit, at least for rural motorways.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #1257
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Study after study shows that while speed does have an effect on road safety, better driver training and better quality roads have a greater affect.

The stats I've seen show that Germany has an equal or better road accident level than Norway. Can anyone confirm this? Also, here is an article (in Norwegian) that I have that shows that increasing speed limits in Denmark and Sweden DID NOT increase the number of accidents. http://www.ha-halden.no/motor/article5375313.ece (Google Chrome automatically translates it into any major language you want.)

What's the current percentage of the oil fund that can be used rather than saved. Is it 1%? How can Norwegian Politicians claim there is no money, that is simply not true. I think the argument that there is simply not enough of a work force to do what needs to be done holds more credence, but it can't be used as an excuse for everything. Just one example I hear from plenty of Norwegian friends and one that I have witnessed first hand. Most Norwegian schools still use black/green boards with white chalk in their classrooms? I simply cannot believe there isn't enough money to replace them with modern white boards.

And to think that in 6 months I might be moving there. :-)

Last edited by JeremyCastle; March 11th, 2011 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:34 AM   #1258
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Most Norwegian schools still use black/green boards with white chalk in their classrooms? I simply cannot believe there isn't enough money to replace them with modern white boards.
Well, the black/green boards works so why replace them? The money is better used elsewhere. And in "new" schools there are white "modern" boards.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:47 AM   #1259
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Well, the black/green boards works so why replace them? The money is better used elsewhere. And in "new" schools there are white "modern" boards.
The argument that something works fine, why replace it could be applied for almost everything that has been supplanted by better technology. Propellor planes were fine, why use jets? Big fat tv's from the 90's are fine, why do we need thinner ones? Candle light works fine, why replace them with electric light bulbs?

I don't buy the argument. White boards are easier to see what is written, easier to clean, doesn't have all that yucky dust flying everywhere, etc... It is a new piece of technology that is more efficient and frankly better than the older technology.

Last edited by JeremyCastle; March 11th, 2011 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Grammar corrections.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 04:21 AM   #1260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Reducing the speed limits on Norwegian highways

New criteria for speed-limits means 420 km of 80 km/h highway will get reduced to 70km/h and 70 km of 90 km/h will be reduced to 80 km/h. Goal of this reduction is 10-15 less deaths/serious injuries per year.

http://www.vegvesen.no/Om+Statens+ve...Vis?key=203760
Bad bad bad bad Not to sound cold hearted, but I'd imagine the cost to the society by increasing travel time on large stretches by 12,5 %, is far much higher than just 10-15 deaths or serious injuries (D/SI). "10-15" is also within the statistical error of injury data, and it will be impossible to meassure the affect of this mean.

But this doesn't matter! The Norwegian Storting has made a legal decission that we shall have none deaths or serious injuries on Norwegian roads what so ever!!! Utopia, here we come!

So why does this only manifest in lower speed limits? This is because we have two large groups of causes of D/SI; head-on accidents and road run-offs. You can't do much on road run-offs without serious investments, but head-ons are really cheap to prohibit: you just make cars run so slow, that no matter how hard they crash, people just won't die!

This is the interesting part, because the decission of having no D/SI has made no influence in other practices of the road authorities: We still have a demand of 8.000 vehicles per day before we pay for a central rail, even for new roads. This make more than 90 percent of the Norwegian highways non-eligible for central rails, because according to the road authorities, it's not economical.

So you all see the obvious hypocracy? We can afford to make all road traffic in Norway go in max 70 km/h, but not invest a single crown in any roads that are outside city centers, just in the name of saving ten idiots behind the wheel.

And yes, those same idiots will now do hazardious overtakings on Norway's curvy roads, now that the speed-limit is so far from their felt level of traffic mastery. But, at least they'll survive (ie. weelchair bound for the rest of their lives). Good economy!


Please let me know if I'm wrong in any of my conclusions! Is it wrong of me to say that if we have a system of road traffic in Norway, we should expect people to die from time to time?
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