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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #1881
MattiG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The problem with this ferry is that the tunnel is 40 minutes faster. Considering this is in an area with multiple fairly sizable cities, I'd say those 40 minutes are definitely worth it.
That tunnel, estimated to cost about 1000 million euro, is to replace the ferry connection taking 25 minutes. Only the CAPEX with reasonable assumptions (40 years of payout time, 2% interest) is about 36.6 million euro per year, which is more than the purchase price of the most modern fast gas ferries.

I not believe the Norwegians ever ever ever will be able to calculate a valid monetary business case for the tunnel.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #1882
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The real cost of "public" transport like ferries is not necessarily the cost of the vehicle (ferry) but operational costs. Most need government support to operate. And this tunnel will replace two ferries and also cut distance and allow a substantially higher speed.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #1883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The real cost of "public" transport like ferries is not necessarily the cost of the vehicle (ferry) but operational costs. Most need government support to operate. And this tunnel will replace two ferries and also cut distance and allow a substantially higher speed.
The tunnel is not free from OPEX either. That sort of deep undersea tunnels have potentially rather high OPEX due to the safety reasons. I would not be very surprised if the OPEX of the tunnel would exceed 50% of the OPEX of the ferries.

Still it does cut the travelling time by crossing time plus average waiting time minus the driving time; less than 30 minutes. As the traffic volumes are low (current AADT 3700, forecasted 10150 if no toll, 5200 is toll 13 eur, 4150 if toll 22 eur), the CAPEX cost only per a pass would be astronomical. Even if counting macroeconomic benefits from the time saved, I do not believe a valid business case will ever exist.

But building tunnels is fun! Let us build them for fun!
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Old October 7th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #1884
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Hey. The ferry also has to take bad weather into account. Regarding traffic numbers, a new motorway from Kristiansand to Stavanger will probably be built. This will increase the traffic far beyond the current estimates, which some say already underestimate the growth, because the calculations excludes many important factors from the equation.

Also worth noting, both tubes will be built with two lanes, but wide enough to fit three lanes each direction. This unprecedented foresight is something I'd never thought I'd see in this country. We would have the best roads in the world, if they had the same attitude to the entire road network in Norway.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #1885
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You should never trust the traffic prognosis of such fjord crossing projects. History has shown us that the barrier effects caused by a ferry compared with a road connection have been underestimated on almost every project. Claiming a traffic volume of 4150 on this stretch is simply ridiculous, even with 22 EUR toll. Even Vegvesenet says that they expect a traffic of 14 000 AADT in 20 years from now, though, provided that the road has been paid down.

Assuming the tunnel will have roughly 10 000 AADT and a cost of 6 billion NOK, and an interest rate of 5 %, the interest cost per car would be 82 NOK. I do not think that is astronomical. The current ferry fare for cars (<=6 m) is 170 NOK, and each adult passenger costs an additional 37 NOK.....

Regarding the width, I think what they plan is not for an extra lane, but for access for service (?). I am not sure the extra width is enough for an extra lane and do not think an extra lane is needed for a very long time. On the other hand it might not increase the cost that much either.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #1886
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Normally you would demolish buildings in the way of an infrastructure project. Not in Norway, where the houses are moved to another location.

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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:00 AM   #1887
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Those houses were listed buildings. Another fun fact is that they originally planned to use two cranes, but had to bring out the big guns as you can see in the video. A church built of concrete was demolished because it was too heavy to lift (no sh*t). It will be rebuilt, and all of this is financed through the project.

Message on the wall: «Riv her søta bror» which should be interpreted as "demolish from this line and left", said in a playful manner to the swedish workers. (Swedes = søta bror)
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Old October 24th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #1888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Rv13 Ryfast

Plans for Ryfast has been approved by the government, so we are set to start construction this fall on the two twin-tube sub-sea tunnels. The 5,7km long Hundvåg tunnel will ramp of from a new E39 tunnel under central Stavanger, then the road runs trough a surface round-about before the 14,3km long Solbakk tunnel that reaches 290 meters below sea-level (longest and deepest sub-sea car tunnel). Construction cost is 690 million euro and the states share is 0%. Tolls for cars are expected at 32 euro for Solbakk tunnel and 3,7 euro for Hundvåg tunnel.

Opening is scheduled for 2018.



http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/sd/...html?id=682020
http://www.vegvesen.no/_attachment/63332/binary/18254
Construction start will be marked November 9th for this undersea motorway-project:
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter...kiv/390970.cms
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Last edited by IceCheese; October 24th, 2012 at 03:27 PM.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #1889
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epic project!

Meanwhile half of the segments of the Hardanger Bridge have been lifted into position. I gotta say this went very fast.

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Old October 25th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #1890
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Quote:
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epic project!

Meanwhile half of the segments of the Hardanger Bridge have been lifted into position. I gotta say this went very fast.

Looks amazing!
Any news updates on the project?
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Old October 25th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #1891
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There are more pictures in the local thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Þróndeimr View Post
cool, here is all the photos in that report + other updates from this month.



















Photos by Vegvesenet
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Old October 25th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #1892
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WOW. That is fabulous!
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Old October 26th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #1893
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The danes who made this video (i think?) has forgotten that every motorway get's 100 km/h even though they officially have to apply for the increase from 90 km/h.
Not true... here in Bergen, the 555 motorway, west of the city is a legally signed motorway and has a limit of only 80, the same goes for the motorway section of the E-9 north of the city (by Ikea), also 80. The E39 south of the city is not a motorway and is a straighter road than the actual motorway section, again only 80.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 09:53 AM   #1894
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Those are urban expressways tough, better example would be E6 Klemmetsrud - Korsegården that is signed 90 and 80. Parts of it is low standard and there are long tunnels, but still.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #1895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Those are urban expressways tough, better example would be E6 Klemmetsrud - Korsegården that is signed 90 and 80. Parts of it is low standard and there are long tunnels, but still.
I hear what you're saying, except I drive them all the time and they are signed and posted as far as I know like any other motorway with the blue signs and shields. The urban expressways I think have yellow signs like the regular roads. If they are urban expressways, are they allowed to use the blue motorway signage?
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Old October 27th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #1896
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If built today they would have expressway status instead of motorway.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 01:19 AM   #1897
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E6 Vinterbro - Klemetsrud was built for 100 km/h, and I remember an interview from when it was halfway done when a representative from Statens Vegvesen said they'd signposted it 90 temporarily till the whole stretch was complete. That's obviously many years ago. I have no idea why the have the speedlimit so low.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #1898
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Sofiemyr - Klemmetsrud had Max speed 80 when it opened, but later raised to 90.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #1899
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Construction of the Tverland Bridge in RV80 in Nordland (east of Bodø).

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Old October 29th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #1900
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Gorgeous.
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