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Old November 30th, 2015, 05:07 AM   #181
Wisarut
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's probably true, but I guess the concern is how much economic gain Laos will be able to extract from this new infrastructure. Passenger traffic is unlikely to be profitable by itself (ignoring secondary beneficial effects) so it's about freight. What does Laos potentially have to export to China via rail?
Para rubber and fruit from Chinese plantation in Laos along with copper ore as well as all other ores ...

For Thai side, rice, processed para rubber products and fruit can be loaded another part of cargo though.

For the issue of the delays on Thai side, it is due to the Insistent from Ministry of Finance (MoF) to cut down the interest rate of loan of Chinese EXIM Bank from the current 2.5% per year to be something less than 2% per year ... or Thailand will look for the domestic source since ANY FOREX fluctuation with high interest rate is totally Unacceptable in the eyes of MoF.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 09:24 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by tjrgx View Post
My bad....

http://222.221.5.178:8080/webpic/W02...8841228863.pdf

The railway will be 70 percent funded by China and 30 percent by Laos (total cost$6.28 billion).... So Laos immediate debt burden is not larger I think
Have you seen any PDF file about the details on Lao - China railway from Boten checkpoint to Viengchan station yet?



For the case of 2 bridges across Mekhong - this is due to the fact that Luang Phrabang station must be on Chom Phet bank (western bank), not the eastern bank - allowing the connection with Xayabouli province as well as connecting with Thailand via Huay Kon checkpoint (Nan province), Phoo Doo checkpoint (Uttaradit) and Na Haew checkpoint (Loei), for Luang Phrabang city access, ferry ride from Chom Phet district (Xieng Maen) to Luang Phrabang city would be fine and Chinese investors can set up the new city on Chomphet bank instead of the world heritage section.
http://www.ecotourismlaos.com/maps_lpq.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luang_Prabang_Province
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Old November 30th, 2015, 09:57 AM   #183
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What shall be the train travel time Kunming-Mohan in 2021?
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Old November 30th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Have you seen any PDF file about the details on Lao - China railway from Boten checkpoint to Viengchan station yet?
No I haven't seen the feasibility study been released to the public yet, but I think it will be soon......
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Old November 30th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What shall be the train travel time Kunming-Mohan in 2021?
Should be around 5-6hrs
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Old November 30th, 2015, 08:30 PM   #186
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Should be around 5-6hrs
Meaning average speed of 84 to 101 km/h for top speed of 160 km/h.
What would be the travel time Mohan-Vientiane?
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Old November 30th, 2015, 10:10 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Meaning average speed of 84 to 101 km/h for top speed of 160 km/h.
What would be the travel time Mohan-Vientiane?
overall it should be 10-12hr overnight trip from Kunming to Vientiane, if discounted immigration clearance time...
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 06:50 PM   #188
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China, Thailand ink intergovernmental document on railway project

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._134882561.htm



BANGKOK, Dec. 3 (Xinhua) -- China and Thailand signed an intergovernmental framework document on railway cooperation here on Thursday, which serves as an important basis for future efforts to push forward the railway project.

The foundational document for the bilateral cooperation in constructing an 867-kilometer medium-speed railway line in Thailand was signed by Thai Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith and deputy head of China's National Development and Reform Commission Wang Xiaotao.

The signing ceremony was held at the ninth meeting of the Joint Committee on Railway Cooperation between the Thailand and China.

According to the document, the railway project, a dual-track line which uses 1.435-meter standard gauge with trains operating at top speeds of 160-180 kph, will be implemented in the form of EPC (engineering, procurement, construction), according to Chinese negotiators.

A joint venture will be set up in charge of part of the investment and railway operation, the statement said, adding the Chinese side will support Thailand in terms of technology licensing and transfer, human resources training, and financing.

A foundation stone laying ceremony for the railway project will be held later this month. Both sides are striving to speed up the process so that construction could start in May next year.

The railway project will significantly enhance connectivity between Thailand and China and boost economic growth in Thailand, especially in its northeastern part, according to the statement.

As an important part of the trans-Asian railway network, the project will potentially reinforce Thailand's position as a transport hub in the region and inject vitality into the economic development in the southwestern part of China.

In addition to the railway document, a contract was signed by the China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation and the Foreign Trade Department of the Commerce Ministry of Thailand, under which the Chinese enterprise will purchase 1 million tons of newly-harvested rice from Thailand.

China's Sinochem and the Rubber Authority of Thailand also inked a purchase agreement, under which Thailand will sell 200,000 tons of natural rubber to the Chinese company.

The purchases will help propel the growth of the two countries' economic and trade ties while further promoting Thailand's rubber products in China and other major markets, the statement said.

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Old December 3rd, 2015, 07:48 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by tjrgx View Post
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._134882561.htm

The foundational document for the bilateral cooperation in constructing an 867-kilometer medium-speed railway line in Thailand
According to the document, the railway project, a dual-track line which uses 1.435-meter standard gauge with trains operating at top speeds of 160-180 kph, will be implemented in the form of EPC (engineering, procurement, construction), according to Chinese negotiators.
Some of these 867 km would be a branch line.
So what would be the distance Bangkok-Vientiane by HSR?
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 08:26 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Some of these 867 km would be a branch line.
So what would be the distance Bangkok-Vientiane by HSR?
About 626,5km with operation speed of 200km/h for the Thai side, but can later be upgraded to 300km/h. Cargo speed will be 120km/h.

For Laos side the operation speed will be 160km/h, but can later be upgraded to 200km/h. Cargo speed will also be 120km/h.
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 09:36 PM   #191
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About 626,5km with operation speed of 200km/h for the Thai side, but can later be upgraded to 300km/h. Cargo speed will be 120km/h.
Pre-upgrade, what would be the trip time Bangkok-Vientiane?
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 11:49 PM   #192
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http://www.seat61.com/Laos.htm#Bangkok%20to%20Vientiane

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Old December 4th, 2015, 05:48 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Some of these 867 km would be a branch line.
So what would be the distance Bangkok-Vientiane by HSR?
Section 1 BKK - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) - additional station at Ban Phachi
Section 3 Kaeng khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) - additional station
Section 4 Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai 355 km)

Total: 626.5 km -

this is quite longer than the original distance of 621.100 km despite of the fact that the starting point of High Speed train is at Bangsue Central which 7 km North of Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong. To be fair, this has to include the section to avoid the PTT Pipelines on the railway land (PTT is Thai Equivalent to SINOPEC or so and PTT is the main creditor for SRT as PTT keeps supplying both Diesel and lubricant for SRT locomotives so they generally pay the rent by Diesel and lubricant credits) - not to mention about the tunnels through Dong Phraya Yen ...

It takes about 10-12 hour from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong to Nong Khai station though. 10 Hours for the case of taking Express 75 DMU express 12 hour for taking Express 69.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjrgx View Post
China, Thailand ink intergovernmental document on railway project
BANGKOK, Dec. 3 (Xinhua) -- China and Thailand signed an intergovernmental framework document on railway cooperation here on Thursday, which serves as an important basis for future efforts to push forward the railway project.
BBC version of the news "China, Thailand ink intergovernmental document on railway project" is here
https://www.facebook.com/BBCThai/posts/1717108098510223

the thing that makes Thai-Chinese HSR not finalized yet is due to the dispute on the issue annual interests on Loan from Chinese EXIM Bak.

Chinese government insisting Thailand to accept 2.5% per annum rate using Chinese way to calculate interest rates. However, Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance insist that the loan interest can be cut down to 2% per year or less if People Bank of China is willing to accept the way Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance have calculated the interest rates for Thai - Chinese railway. This is very critical issue as there is a cost overrun that make the budget for Thai - Chinese railway balloon up from 400 billion Baht to 560 billion Baht due to the additional stations as well as the political animosity of Thai-Chinese railway vs Thai - Japanese railways on the shared 82 km section from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi Junction ... Japanese government never allows Chinese government to build the traffic control station at Bangsue Central which finance by JICA loan.

http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detai...sid=1449199886
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Last edited by Wisarut; December 4th, 2015 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Addendum
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Old December 4th, 2015, 10:22 AM   #194
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He asked for pre-upgrade which I assume the train running at 200 km/h speed. That would be somewhere around 4 hours from Bkk to Vientien.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 11:34 AM   #195
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He asked for pre-upgrade which I assume the train running at 200 km/h speed. That would be somewhere around 4 hours from Bkk to Vientien.
Yes, right.
So turns out there are currently no trains between Bangkok and Thanaleng?

After 2021, does it mean that train time Bangkok-Kunming would be around 14-16 hours (4 hours Bangkok-Thanaleng, 10-12 hours Thanaleng-Kunming)?
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Old December 4th, 2015, 12:59 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, right.
So turns out there are currently no trains between Bangkok and Thanaleng?

After 2021, does it mean that train time Bangkok-Kunming would be around 14-16 hours (4 hours Bangkok-Thanaleng, 10-12 hours Thanaleng-Kunming)?
Well, ONLY Nong Khai - Tha Nalaeng shuttle is available but Lao railway can sell the tickets of Thai railway to Bangkok from Tha Nalaeng station without the need to cross the border to Nong Khai.

Next on the line will be cargo trains to bring ore deposited in container boxes at Tha Nalaeng station to head to Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port due to the ongoing expansion of Tha Nalaeng railway yard to handle container boxes of cargo train.
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Old December 5th, 2015, 08:20 AM   #197
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Railroad to nowhere? China draws a line across landlocked Laos
4 December 2015
The Christian Science Monitor Excerpt

Chang Son first heard about the train that will be routed through his mountainous village five years ago. But today, the only sign of progress is a dusty cement plaque that Chinese developers installed to mark the proposed route.

"We are sure the train will come, but we don't know when," says Mr. Chang, who lives next to a hillside in Ban Pasak village through which the line would pass, one of 72 planned tunnels. His village of ethnic Hmong is to be relocated to make room for the line, though no one knows where they will be forced to go.

The Beijing-backed railroad is designed to cut through Laos's jungle interior to connect southwest Yunnan Province to the Lao capital, Vientiane, and on to neighboring Thailand. The ultimate goal is 2,400 miles of seamless rail transport from China to Singapore. And Lao and Chinese government officials insist the railroad is just around the corner.

This week, for instance, senior ministers from both countries gathered in Vientiane to stick shovels into neat piles of sand as part of a symbolic groundbreaking ceremony. The event coincided with National Day in this Communist-ruled country.

But the railway has been mired in delays ever since construction was first scheduled to start in 2010. And despite this week's fanfare, there's still disagreement over how to finance the $6 billion venture - a price tag that's more than half of Laos's GDP.

For China, the stalling appears to be part of a broader diplomatic balancing act, as the country waits for assurance that other governments in the region will commit to building their own stretches of track. Although the railroad would transform the physical and economic landscape of poor and landlocked Laos, it's only one piece of a much larger puzzle for Beijing.

China strengthens footholdChina has already inked an agreement with Thailand to connect the Lao line with a "medium-speed" train that will run down to Malaysia. Chinese companies are expected to bid for contracts to build a high-speed link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, completing the overland route.

But similar to Laos, Thailand has yet to agree to Beijing's proposed interest rate for loans that will be used to finance the construction. There is fear that onerous loan terms will make these smaller countries indebted to Beijing for years to come - especially Laos, whose mineral resources could be used as collateral.

The envisioned pan-Asia train line has clear economic benefits for China: It will accelerate the country's ability to funnel resources back to the mainland, and to export more Chinese-made goods. More broadly, it would increase the economic prospects of its landlocked southwest provinces and boost cross-border investments.

But geopolitical reasons are driving the mega-project as well. China is keen to strengthen friendships and secure a physical foothold in Southeast Asia, especially as tensions rise with the US and its military allies over territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

To that end, the Yunnan-Singapore rail line is one means by which China could have direct access to the Strait of Malacca, a narrow channel near Singapore through which approximately 80 percent of China's oil imports pass. China also recently finished construction on gas and oil pipelines through Myanmar that will bypass the Strait, where the US Navy maintains a sizeable presence.
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Old December 12th, 2015, 12:42 AM   #198
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proposed high speed rail between tehran and urumqi

http://qz.com/557009/chinas-next-big...ilway-to-iran/
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Old December 12th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Railroad to nowhere? China draws a line across landlocked Laos
4 December 2015
The Christian Science Monitor Excerpt

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...andlocked-Laos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=I38GsK_0BVw
Here is the video presenting Lao - China railway with Chinese and English subtitle

Lao - China railway with the distance of 427 km started from Friendship Tunnel across Lao - China border to Boten station at Ban Na Toei before heading to Ban Na Kok Tai, Udomxai, Mueang Nga before going across Mekhong river with the 2100 meter bridge with the height of 85 meter passing Ban Sanok, Mueang Yan (dropping point for Xayabouli province) before going across Mekhong river again with the 1436 meter bridge to reach Luang Phrabang station on the Southern suburb near ring road before going across Nam Khan river, Xiang Ngoen, Ban Phu Ya, Sala Pac Thu, Ban Sen before passing Ban Sen tunnel with the distance of 9405 meter (the longest tunnel in Laos discounting Friendship tunnel which most is on China side) - Kasi station, Ban Bun Phok, Ban Pha Daeng - bridge across Xeng river, Ban Pha Tang before following Luang Phrabang road (highway 13) to reach Vang Vieng station, Ban Vang Voeng, Bang Vieng Khi, Ban Hin Hoeb, Mueang Phon Hong station (main district of Viengchan province) - Ban Saka - Ban Phone Sai - Nakhon Luang Viengchan station on 450 Year Boulevard near National Stadium on Lak 16 (km 16 from Viengchan city center) - Viengchan Tai station - Tha nalaeng East (the main cargo dropping point on the eastern end of existing Tha Nalaeng station) before ending up at the Lao end of the proposed New Friendship Bridge across mekhong opposite to the Eastern end of Wat Chommanee (probably opposite to the SRT Railway land which used to be a ferry station between Nong Khai and Tha Nalaeng)

Max Speed for passenger train: 160 kph for Bo Ten to Vang Vieng, 200 kph from Vang Vieng to Tha nalaeng East - cargo train at 120 kph
http://www.manager.co.th/IndoChina/V...=9580000136328

https://www.facebook.com/djtheva.phe...1671945636350/
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Old December 16th, 2015, 07:53 AM   #200
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It's a fantastic thing in the long term to connect all of southeast Asia to China with standard gauge rail that offers train speeds matching highway speeds. I think it will pay off eventually.

However in the short term it does seem like Laos is getting severely ripped off. An expressway would probably offer more immediate usefulness than a railway perhaps? Between this and all those dams the country is going to have extreme amounts of debt. Also, what will become of Malaysia's meter gauge railways? Would they be widened to 1435 mm?
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