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Old February 4th, 2015, 03:30 AM   #141
lookback718
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[QUOTE=MarcVD;120973492]

Why is it that such irrealistic proposals kept being made so regularly ?

The line is more about freight than passengers. Valuable, time sensitive goods like laptops from Chengdu and machinery and car parts from Germany.

For passengers, it's not for travel from Beijing to Moscow, more like from Urumqi to Astana, or Astana to Chelyabinsk, or Kazan to Moscow.

Freight will pay the bills, passengers will give the movement of ideas and businesses a boost, giving economic benefits beyond what is captured in the ticket price.
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Old February 4th, 2015, 02:36 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookback718 View Post
The line is more about freight than passengers.
Ok, economically it would make much more sense but then it's not high-speed,
is it ?
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Old February 14th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #143
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I believe the line will be mixed use high speed rail.

Chinese mixed use lines are 250kmp/h spec and this line could be similar specification. This would allow a few fast passenger trains (250kmp/h) to be mixed with slower freight trains (120kmp/h?). Different sections could also be built to different spec, for example Moscow - Kazan - Chelyabinsk might be 350kmp/h spec, while the trans-Kazakhstan sections might be 250kmp/h or even 160kmp/h.

That said, I think some freight may in fact be run a high speed. Afaik with the exception of French TGV mail services and maybe a bit in China freight does not go at high speed anywhere.

I suspect that may change for the following reasons.

China's ambitions for a trans Eurasian High Speed Railway Network repeatedly mention sending electronics from Chengdu/Chongqing and machinery parts from Germany via train as an alternative to sea and air freight.
To compete with air - the freight must be high speed. Think Lenvo computers customised in Chengdu, purchased online, delivered in the EU 3 days later. Think any small electronics purchased from ebay and air freighted for speed.

Final reason IMO is simply because it's Moscow-Beijing - the capital cities of two Eurasian Great Powers. Status, geopolitics and preserving Russian influence in Central Asia and Europe is really important to Moscow/Putin. China is going to get railways to Europe one way or another the planned routes include -

China - Kyrgyzstan - Tajikistan - Afghanistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Kyrgyzstan - Uzbekistan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Kazakhstan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Pakistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

Plus the proposed "Silk Road Railway" running - China (Khorgas) - Kazahkstan (Almaty) - Kyrgyzstan (Bishkek) - Kazahkstan (Taraz?) - Uzbekistan (Tashkent) - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe.

Russia would prefer to get in first as this will enshrine Russia's important in mediating trade and communication between Europe and China. It's no accident that Russia has agreed to this deal with what is occurring in Ukraine/Western sanctions/oil price drop.

Kazakhstan has been studying for years the feasibility of a trans-Kazakhstan rail corridor from China to Russia, and those studies have repeatedly shown favourable returns. I suspect Kazahkstan has been ready for a while, but was witing for China/Russia to say yes - imo the delay i probably gauge related.

For rail competing with sea it makes sense due to the finance cost of having valuable parts in transit for ~45days on a boat. This is the economics of the current 'Yuxinou line' Chongqing to Germany train which runs 3 times a week. Services have recently been added to Madrid. This trip take 16 days. Goods are typically car parts from Germany and machine tools. Consumer goods with a high value come from China.
This is where slow speed ie~120kmp/h railway will make economic sense.

TL/DR - So in summary I think it will be mixed use - passenger high speed from point to point / not end to end - some high speed freight - some normal speed freight.

**Sorry for the long post**
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Old February 17th, 2015, 02:06 PM   #144
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It seems it will be very high speed train... What you say ?
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Old March 10th, 2015, 04:30 PM   #145
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Northwest China's Gansu betting on rail network for growth


The northwestern province of Gansu plans to have a railroad of 6,000 kilometers by the end of this year, as it steps up efforts to cash in on trade opportunities arising from the development of the Silk Road Economic Belt, senior provincial officials said on Monday.

Liu Weiping, the provincial governor and deputy to the National People's Congress, said all the 14 cities and autonomous prefectures in the province will be connected through the railroad this year, and give Gansu an edge over coastal provinces in the competition for industrial and infrastructure facilities.

"The railway network development will facilitate Gansu's exports of agricultural, heavy industry and new energy products to Central Asia and Eastern Europe through international rail cargo services," Liu said. "This will create more jobs in the service-related sectors from a long-term perspective."

According to official statistics, about 78 percent of China's 800 billion yuan ($127.7 billion) in investment had been spent in rail construction projects in western and central regions last year, or 86 percent of the country's new rail facilities in 2014.

Gansu started an international rail cargo service between Wuwei and Almaty in Kazakhstan last year. Currently the train takes five days to make the 2,646-kilometer trip.

It can effectively save 80 percent of the cost compared with air shipments, and is about $510 cheaper per container compared with road transportation, which is a major incentive for the Eurasian Land Bridge or the New Silk Road, a rail transport route for moving freight from China to seaports in Europe.

The international rail freight service is expected to reach Rotterdam in the Netherlands via Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus, Poland and Germany in 2016.

"With many manufacturing companies moving their facilities to both Europe and inland China, there is an increasing demand for logistics and transportation services in these two fast-growing markets," said Yu Haiyan, Party chief of Lanzhou, capital of Gansu province, and also deputy to the National People's Congress.

Gansu sealed 83 major trade and investment deals with countries along the Silk Road Economic Belt in 2014 and its trade volume with these trading partners rose 5 percent year-on-year.

Responding to rising trade volumes, the provincial government set up three business delegation offices in Minsk in Belarus, Teheran in Iran and Horgos, a border city in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region to strengthen its regional presence, as well as to attract overseas visitors by facilitating more international airlines and gradually opening international ports of entry at the Lanzhou, Dunhuang and Jiayuguan airports.

After setting up three international passenger air routes between Lanzhou and Singapore, Dubai and Tbilisi of Georgia last year, Yu said the provincial capital will launch air cargo services operated by Air China Cargo Co to destinations in Central Asia and Eastern Europe in the second half of this year, in a bid to diversify its trading methods with countries along the Silk Road Economic Belt.



http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/busines...16689dd01c.jpg
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Old March 10th, 2015, 06:46 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookback718 View Post
I believe the line will be mixed use high speed rail.

Chinese mixed use lines are 250kmp/h spec and this line could be similar specification. This would allow a few fast passenger trains (250kmp/h) to be mixed with slower freight trains (120kmp/h?). Different sections could also be built to different spec, for example Moscow - Kazan - Chelyabinsk might be 350kmp/h spec, while the trans-Kazakhstan sections might be 250kmp/h or even 160kmp/h.

That said, I think some freight may in fact be run a high speed. Afaik with the exception of French TGV mail services and maybe a bit in China freight does not go at high speed anywhere.

I suspect that may change for the following reasons.

China's ambitions for a trans Eurasian High Speed Railway Network repeatedly mention sending electronics from Chengdu/Chongqing and machinery parts from Germany via train as an alternative to sea and air freight.
To compete with air - the freight must be high speed. Think Lenvo computers customised in Chengdu, purchased online, delivered in the EU 3 days later. Think any small electronics purchased from ebay and air freighted for speed.

Final reason IMO is simply because it's Moscow-Beijing - the capital cities of two Eurasian Great Powers. Status, geopolitics and preserving Russian influence in Central Asia and Europe is really important to Moscow/Putin. China is going to get railways to Europe one way or another the planned routes include -

China - Kyrgyzstan - Tajikistan - Afghanistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Kyrgyzstan - Uzbekistan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Kazakhstan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

China - Pakistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

Plus the proposed "Silk Road Railway" running - China (Khorgas) - Kazahkstan (Almaty) - Kyrgyzstan (Bishkek) - Kazahkstan (Taraz?) - Uzbekistan (Tashkent) - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe.

Russia would prefer to get in first as this will enshrine Russia's important in mediating trade and communication between Europe and China. It's no accident that Russia has agreed to this deal with what is occurring in Ukraine/Western sanctions/oil price drop.

Kazakhstan has been studying for years the feasibility of a trans-Kazakhstan rail corridor from China to Russia, and those studies have repeatedly shown favourable returns. I suspect Kazahkstan has been ready for a while, but was witing for China/Russia to say yes - imo the delay i probably gauge related.

For rail competing with sea it makes sense due to the finance cost of having valuable parts in transit for ~45days on a boat. This is the economics of the current 'Yuxinou line' Chongqing to Germany train which runs 3 times a week. Services have recently been added to Madrid. This trip take 16 days. Goods are typically car parts from Germany and machine tools. Consumer goods with a high value come from China.
This is where slow speed ie~120kmp/h railway will make economic sense.

TL/DR - So in summary I think it will be mixed use - passenger high speed from point to point / not end to end - some high speed freight - some normal speed freight.

**Sorry for the long post**
Any reference for your analysis would be greatly appreciated
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Old March 10th, 2015, 09:04 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Northwest China's Gansu betting on rail network for growth


The northwestern province of Gansu plans to have a railroad of 6,000 kilometers by the end of this year, as it steps up efforts to cash in on trade opportunities arising from the development of the Silk Road Economic Belt, senior provincial officials said on Monday.

Liu Weiping, the provincial governor and deputy to the National People's Congress, said all the 14 cities and autonomous prefectures in the province will be connected through the railroad this year, and give Gansu an edge over coastal provinces in the competition for industrial and infrastructure facilities.
Which cities and autonomous prefectures in Gansu province are not yet connected by railway? Which railways are yet to open in this year in Gansu?
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Old March 10th, 2015, 09:35 PM   #148
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A case of wait and see
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Old March 20th, 2015, 02:10 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Any reference for your analysis would be greatly appreciated
I have references, but it's literally thousand of articles I've read over the years. However at the end of this month at the Boao economic forum meeting in Hainan China is going to be releasing a detailed 'road map' which I hope will back up many of the claims I made above.

I can't current post links however if you google 'Xinhua - China to reveal detailed "Belt and Road" roadmap'

You will see the article advising the above.
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Old March 20th, 2015, 04:15 AM   #150
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when the HSR network with Russia, central Asia and Europe is established, Xinjiang can be an ideal location for logistic centres. It could even establish some tax free zone close to the border.

HSR freight has seen explosive growth in China in the past couple of years (200% growth in 2014), and when the model is mature and economies of scale is reached, the HSR freight model can be easily promoted to SE and Central Asian countries.
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Old March 20th, 2015, 06:26 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookback718 View Post
I have references, but it's literally thousand of articles I've read over the years. However at the end of this month at the Boao economic forum meeting in Hainan China is going to be releasing a detailed 'road map' which I hope will back up many of the claims I made above.

I can't current post links however if you google 'Xinhua - China to reveal detailed "Belt and Road" roadmap'

You will see the article advising the above.
Just too bad ... then just giving the list of the following routes in Chinese would be appreciated

1) China - Kyrgyzstan - Tajikistan - Afghanistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

2) China - Kyrgyzstan - Uzbekistan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

3) China - Kazakhstan - Turkmenistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe

4) China - Pakistan - Iran - Turkey - Southern Europe
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Old March 21st, 2015, 02:24 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Just too bad ... then just giving the list of the following routes in Chinese would be appreciated
Umm, I don't speak Chinese, well except enough to get me a beer

As I'm not able to post links, I'll try and put something together on my blog and then give the details over the next few weeks or so.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 08:08 AM   #153
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South Korea proposed Beijing - Seoul HSR through North Korea



A high-speed rail connecting China with South Korea could be a reality by 2030, according to the Korean newspaper Daily Economic Report, which recently announced a proposal to roll out a high-speed rail system that would run through North Korea to link up Beijing and Seoul.

The proposal for the line, dubbed the “Beijing-Seoul Daily Life Cycle”, consists of two stages. The first would be to build up a high-speed rail connection based on the existing railway infrastructure from Busan to Seoul that would take off from the South Korean capital and wind through the North Korean cities of Pyongyang and Sinuiju.

The second stage would be to connect the Korean railway with China's existing high-speed network to Beijing, starting from China's Yalu River.
China will be building a high-speed railway line from Shenyang to Dandong, and is planning to connect Shenyang with Beijing by 2019.

The report said that the high-speed railway line would be funded by South Korean companies and that the line from Busan to Beijing could be completed by 2030 if construction begins straightaway. Other reports say the line could be opened by as soon as 2020. When it's completed, the 1,700 km journey from Beijing to Seoul would take six hours, it said.

A South Korean expert specializing in railway technology research said North Korea is the only place that hasn't been connected by rail, but China and Russia have shown 'much interest' in the ambitious project.

The Seoul-Sinuiju railway connection is estimated to cost around eight trillion Korean Won ($7.18 billion), while the total cost of the entire project is expected to be a hefty 20 trillion Korean Won ($17.8 billion).
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Old March 25th, 2015, 08:44 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdk View Post


A high-speed rail connecting China with South Korea could be a reality by 2030, according to the Korean newspaper Daily Economic Report, which recently announced a proposal to roll out a high-speed rail system that would run through North Korea to link up Beijing and Seoul.

The proposal for the line, dubbed the “Beijing-Seoul Daily Life Cycle”, consists of two stages. The first would be to build up a high-speed rail connection based on the existing railway infrastructure from Busan to Seoul that would take off from the South Korean capital and wind through the North Korean cities of Pyongyang and Sinuiju.

The second stage would be to connect the Korean railway with China's existing high-speed network to Beijing, starting from China's Yalu River.
China will be building a high-speed railway line from Shenyang to Dandong, and is planning to connect Shenyang with Beijing by 2019.
Shenyang already is connected with Beijing, just at 200 km/h.
What is the current opening date for Shenyang-Dandong high speed railway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdk View Post
The report said that the high-speed railway line would be funded by South Korean companies and that the line from Busan to Beijing could be completed by 2030 if construction begins straightaway. Other reports say the line could be opened by as soon as 2020. When it's completed, the 1,700 km journey from Beijing to Seoul would take six hours, it said.

A South Korean expert specializing in railway technology research said North Korea is the only place that hasn't been connected by rail, but China and Russia have shown 'much interest' in the ambitious project.

The Seoul-Sinuiju railway connection is estimated to cost around eight trillion Korean Won ($7.18 billion), while the total cost of the entire project is expected to be a hefty 20 trillion Korean Won ($17.8 billion).
Um? You mean, including Dandong-Shenyang-Beijing, which China is building anyway?
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Old March 25th, 2015, 12:59 PM   #155
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Yuxi - Mohan railway (玉磨铁路) with the distance of 507 km 13 stations and price tag of 51560 Million Yuan with the following list of stations
Yuxi West - 玉溪西
Asan Shan - 经峨山
Yan he - 研和
E Shan - 峨山
Louli 罗里
Yuan Jiang 元江
Mojiang 墨江
Ning Er 宁洱
Pu' er - 普洱 - 3 hours and 6 minute from Kunming
Mengyang 勐养
Jinghong City - 景洪市 - 3 hours and 42 minute from Kunming
Ganlanba - 橄榄坝
Menghai County 勐海县
Mengla County 勐腊县
Mohan Checkpoint 磨憨站
http://www.114piaowu.com/news/huochepiao/8375/
http://news.gaotie.cn/jianshe/2015-03-06/223261.html
http://www.globalview.cn/html/zhongguo/info_1692.html
http://www.yn.xinhuanet.com/puer/201..._134033185.htm
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Old March 26th, 2015, 09:03 AM   #156
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Officers from ESCAP (Shreya KUMRA) coming to inspect Hekou North on 11 March 2015
http://xn--vuq90hp4at0zdpgb8kfsc.xn-...a=show&id=2181

Construction of logistic center on 800 acres of land around Hekou North railway yard at 1500 Million Yuan
http://www.x3cn.com/bst/jkxw/407465.html


Very first cargo trip across the border - fertilizer from Kaiyuan has been delivered to Hekou North railway station (opened since 1 December 2014) before Vietnam railway taking a cargo of Chinese fertilizer to Vietnam at the rate of 360 tons per day from 7 March 2015 until the first batch of fertilizer exported to Vietnam at 12000 tons have been delivered ... and 200000 tons of Chinese fertilizer will be exported to Vietnam soon.
http://www.china-fertinfo.com.cn/vie...=24879&tb=jrgz
http://www.ectpa.org/article/qytz/tz...00037724.shtml
http://news.xinhuanet.com/2015-03/08/c_1114562828.htm
http://news.flyxg.com/2015/hekou_0309/115841.html
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Old June 19th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #157
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Wasn't really sure whether or not to go to the individual pages (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, etc) and post/spam there, but the logic imbedded in my brain decided, nah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart Rail World
Infographic: What does $140bn of Asian rail investment look like?



There is nowhere with more activity, growth and innovation in the rail sector than in Asia. With a population of 4.3 billion people (that's 60% of the world’s total and growing quickly). This Asian rail growth not only offers opportunities for economic growth but also leads to increasing pressure on the regions natural resources. For example, Asian cities are among the most polluted in the world - of the 15 largest cities on the planet with the worst air pollution 12 are in Asia. One of the major factors in both continuing the growth of the continent and also easing stresses on current infrastructure and the environment is the further development of public transport investment.

<snipped rest of article as it goes on to go on about a trade event>
Full article, as well as mentioning trade show is By Here, or just Clicky for map in pdf style.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 09:19 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanCleverly View Post
Wasn't really sure whether or not to go to the individual pages (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, etc) and post/spam there, but the logic imbedded in my brain decided, nah.



Full article, as well as mentioning trade show is By Here, or just Clicky for map in pdf style.
Some info are missing from above map regarding to Thailand. There are 2 more high speed line that is being planned and may well be start the construction as same as Bkk-Chiagmai line, which is Bkk - Pattaya (Rayong) and Bkk - Huahin. Especially Bkk - Huahin one is the first phase of southern line which will be expanded to Padang Besar as part of the pan asia rail network later.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 08:36 AM   #159
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So many Chinese merchants want Thai - China railway project (中泰铁路 / 中泰鐵路) as the stimulant to start the construct Yuxi - Mohan railway project (玉磨铁路 / 玉磨鐵路) which is to be constructed this year to boost the trades between Thailand and China to trade more rice, rubber, fruit, vegetables and other industry productssince trains can carry more cargo than trucks with less damage
http://world.people.com.cn/n/2015/06...-27171909.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2015...1115650686.htm
http://www.chinesetoday.com/big/article/1011367

EIA on Yux - Mohan railway project (玉磨铁路 / 玉磨鐵路) started at Yuxi west station (玉溪西站) Hong Ta district (红塔区) Yuxi city (玉溪市) Eshan (峨山县), Yuan Jiang (元江县),, Xinping (新平县) , Puer (普洱市), Mojiang (墨江县) Ning ger (宁洱县)
Shimao (思茅区), Jinhong city (景洪市) in Xipsongpanna (西双版纳州) Mengla (勐腊) Lao - China border at Moha (磨憨口岸至中(国)老(挝)) with the distance of 513 km with 26 stations in 2506 hectars of land
Electrified double tracking from Yuxi to Jinhong (景洪市) in Sipsongpanna (西双版纳州) and single track from Jinhong (景洪市) in Sipsongpanna (西双版纳州) to Mohan checkpoint (磨憨)
http://cx.xxgk.yn.gov.cn/Info_Detail...985C551AC17CD3
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 09:45 AM   #160
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China launches freight train service connecting Europe Harbin-Hamburg


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