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Old November 27th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #241
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HI,Actually in Belgrade there is similar system like Paris RER ,wich was not exploied at all city wants to buy 20 new trains an restart it in 2010 it,s completly independent with 30 km double tunnels,bridge,and connect three part of the city with five lines,three underground stations,largest 40 m.deep

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Old November 27th, 2009, 12:57 AM   #242
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Old November 27th, 2009, 01:03 AM   #243
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Old November 27th, 2009, 01:05 AM   #244
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Old November 27th, 2009, 01:07 AM   #245
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Old November 27th, 2009, 01:12 AM   #246
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This new station in Belgrade is still unfinished, hope the best in 2010 it,s also build for high speed train

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Old November 27th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #247
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Old January 6th, 2010, 04:57 PM   #248
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FRANCE | Railways

Thought this might warrant a thread as all their own French discussions are in their own language. What experiences have you had with the rail system outside of TGVs in France?

I've personally travelled on the line from Paris to Limoges (trains run to/from Brive) and didn't find it amazing. It was something called a Corail Teoz which did 160km/h so it was better than comparable Australian services, but that's not saying a lot. The timetable was very confusing to understand with all the local TERs thrown it and confusion about which trains run on what days of the week.

The Austerlitz terminus in Paris was pretty ordinary too I thought. Didn't have the beggars of Gare du Nord but not a very impressive station.

Does anybody know if there are any plans to upgrade that line at all?
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #249
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I have taken normal SNCF intercity trains before (Paris-Perpignan I think). And honestly, I was disappointed. The last time I travelled that way was in 2006. It was refurbished, and done quite well, but the trains themselves where very backward. I think travelling on the WCML on a 390 or on the ECML on a 225 is much better.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #250
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I still don't understand why they don't use ETR600s or more modern trains on these curvy lines. They could achieve 200kmh on most segments.
Back in the late 90's, SNCF expected to run Pendolinos on their "slow" lines to keep them competitive against high speed lines. What happened ?
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Old January 7th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #251
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The conventional railways in France are definitely not so great - with the possible exception of a few "priority lines" like Paris-Orleans-Limoges, etc. IMHO this reflects the fact that they have been starved of investment because of the development of the TGV network. If you look at comparable figures for railway investment relative to the population or GDP across Europe in the last 20-30 years then you get the following picture: two laggards have invested signficantly less than other countries, namely UK and my native Denmark. France is doing.... OK, but is definitely not above the middle group. - And this in the thick of a period where it spent more on HS trains than almost any other country.

Conclusion: the money spent on TGV lines were not "extra" budgetary allocations - they were whisked away from other forms of railway investment. We feel the consequences on many of the legacy lines. To some extent this is a deliberate policy. France is much more willing than most European nations to let parts of the country where the economic basis is crumbling depopulate, and governments make the point inter alia by turning of the tap of public funding for infrastructure. (In this respect I think France ressembles the US more than, say, Germany...) But we also feel it in the Parisian region that normally enjoys an automatically high priority in French policy. The suburban RER system that was developed to great acclaim in the 30 years following WW2 is beginning to crack badly. The reason is, again, that having put in place a good system that was fully operational around the early 1980s the authorities rested on their laurels and failed to undertake meaningful maintenance and follow-up investments.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 09:59 AM   #252
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Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm amazed at how good your English is.

And I've heard a similar opinion about France's non-TGV rail network before. Sympathy should be given to nations which don't have HSR systems and yet still don't invest in their existing rail networks.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 02:35 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L2 View Post
I've personally travelled on the line from Paris to Limoges (trains run to/from Brive) and didn't find it amazing. It was something called a Corail Teoz which did 160km/h so it was better than comparable Australian services, but that's not saying a lot. The timetable was very confusing to understand with all the local TERs thrown it and confusion about which trains run on what days of the week.
The French have taken the design of confusing railway timetables to a high level. Basically the SNCF considers itself an operator of trains, not an operator of a railway network, like SBB or DB does. And the SNCF runs to a different timetable every day of the year.

If you use the SNCF railway website to plan a trip between two stations on the network it will often claim that the trip you want to do is not possible. This because it won't consider any routes that involve more than two changes.
The TGV's are fast, but they're operated as a ground level airline, not as part of the rest of the system, with the consequence that a lot of the gains you make on the TGV are lost when making transfers. I prefer the Swiss approach, with an efficient network with frequent, well coördinated trains.
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Old January 7th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #254
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Strangely enough there's a TGV a couple of times a day on the Brive-Limoges-Paris route. After finding on the timetable a day it would actually be running, I rode the morning one up to an RER station called Juvisy where I had to change for the RER C into Paris (which at least went to where I was staying).

Couple of thoughts - what is the purpose of this service? It went no faster than the regular trains do. Running around Paris then to the north was odd - the connection with the RER at Juvisy was awkward.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 08:17 AM   #255
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Quote:
And the SNCF runs to a different timetable every day of the year.
If the timetable is announced with enough advance, and is then followed without delays, why should varying departuring times be a problem? Nobody has timetable books anymore, and it should be easy to check departure times online, on your smartphone etc. on a daily basis.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #256
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If the timetable is announced with enough advance, and is then followed without delays, why should varying departuring times be a problem?
If I want to get somewhere at 10am each day, if on Monday & Wednesday there's a 9:42am arrival, Tuesday & Thursday 10:17am, Friday 10:47am, Saturday 11:33am and no service on Sundays, then it's not much use.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #257
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This is a common problem. Look at Eurostar's timetable: http://www.eurostar.com/pdf/timetables/UK_timetable.pdf

And there are even worse situations. Usually Friday, Saturday and Sunday service is different from other days.
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Old January 8th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #258
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Quote:
why should varying departuring times be a problem?
I don't know what would be serious advantages of varying departuring times over interval timetable.

But if my travel route for several days is train + another train + bus and timetable is different for each day then the ride becomes a headache.

There must be reason why any of european countries train services isn't used as densely as it's used in Switzerland.

I think the kay for this is:
http://www.sma-partner.ch/index.php?...id=154&lang=de
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Old January 8th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #259
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Old January 8th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #260
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So, no seat recline on non-TGV rail travel in France?
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