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Old December 14th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #561
Blackraven
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Guessing time: When do you think the new Alstom AGV bullet trains will be used in France?
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Old December 14th, 2011, 08:27 PM   #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven
Guessing time: When do you think the new Alstom AGV bullet trains will be used in France?
In 2007 SNCF ordered their latest trains, a batch of 50 TGV Duplex. The next order may be for AGV, maybe when it's time to replace the TGVs on the Paris Sud Est route. Alstom is working on a Duplex version of the AGV.

Since SNCF has a 20% stake in NTV, they might be able to get a look at how well NTV and their customers receive the AGV.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #563
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I don't know did this video about AGV is already posted here, but it is interesting.

Alstom AGV 001

http://cdn.streamlike.com/hosting/al...iled&number=10

Alstom AGV 001 test run in France, 360kmh, December 2008

http://cdn.streamlike.com/hosting/al...r=10&offset=10

AGV NTV

http://cdn.streamlike.com/hosting/al...iled&number=10

Last edited by George5; December 16th, 2011 at 01:31 AM.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:07 AM   #564
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Are there any plans to speed up the Brussels-Paris line?
I might be working in Brussels in a couple of years, but I really think the town sucks (sorry if anyone gets offended).
I'd much rather live in Paris and commute daily.

Today, that isn't really viable; so do they plan to increase the speed of that particular line?
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:23 AM   #565
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Have you visited bruxelles?
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Old December 16th, 2011, 06:57 AM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelferis View Post
Have you visited bruxelles?
Yeah? Why would I say it sucks if I hadn't visit?
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Old December 16th, 2011, 07:07 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772
Are there any plans to speed up the Brussels-Paris line?
That's unlikely given the current economic situation of Belgium as well as France.

Since the line is already built for 300 km/h, upgrading it would cost millions and the benefits would be little; even if the line itself would be upgraded to 360 km/h and there would be AGV rolling stock, that wouldn't mean that 1/5th of the travel time would be slashed, since a higher top speed needs more time for acceleration and deceleration.

Maybe 1/10th is a realistic time gain. Currently Thalys takes 1h22 to get from Paris Nord to Brussels South. That's 82 minutes. 1/10th of that is an improvement of... 8 minutes.

So all in all, the time gained is only a couple of minutes. Any cost/benefit analysis would advise against such an investment.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
I might be working in Brussels in a couple of years, but I really think the town sucks (sorry if anyone gets offended).
If you want to live somewhere that sucks less and commute daily, look at Antwerpen, Gent or Leuven.
You don't need to go as far as Paris. Commuting from Paris would be an expensive proposition anyway.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:02 PM   #569
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Ok, thanks guys.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
So all in all, the time gained is only a couple of minutes. Any cost/benefit analysis would advise against such an investment.
A more meaningful investment would be to build a tunnel connecting Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon, and build a new underground TGV station in the middle of Paris. That would save a lot of time for a lot of people...
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Old December 16th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #571
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Why would they upgrade a 300 km/h line? They need to speed up Antwerp-Brussels first.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 04:53 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
That's unlikely given the current economic situation of Belgium as well as France.

Since the line is already built for 300 km/h, upgrading it would cost millions and the benefits would be little; even if the line itself would be upgraded to 360 km/h and there would be AGV rolling stock, that wouldn't mean that 1/5th of the travel time would be slashed, since a higher top speed needs more time for acceleration and deceleration.

Maybe 1/10th is a realistic time gain. Currently Thalys takes 1h22 to get from Paris Nord to Brussels South. That's 82 minutes. 1/10th of that is an improvement of... 8 minutes.

So all in all, the time gained is only a couple of minutes. Any cost/benefit analysis would advise against such an investment.
Actually the alignment was built for 350km/h, so the only real restriction is the rolling stock. Still, thats a lot rolling stock to replace.

France learnt their lesson with the LGV Sud-Est and made sure future routes had some future proofing. Unfortunately I can only find the wikipedia page to support that, the French one states curve radius of 6000m (good for 400km/h), with some 4000m (good for 320-330km/h), but this isn't where I originally read this.

Found another link though http://www.railfaneurope.net/tgv/tgvnord.html
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Last edited by makita09; December 16th, 2011 at 04:59 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2011, 01:20 AM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Actually the alignment was built for 350km/h, so the only real restriction is the rolling stock. Still, thats a lot rolling stock to replace.
Not as much as you might think.

There are 17 PBKA sets, still all in service.

There were 10 TGV réseau tricourant sets specially adapted, and re-painted
in red, for circulation to Amsterdam (they don't have 15 kV so they can't
go to Germany). One has been returned to the TGV réseau fleet.

There are ordinary TGV réseau tricourant for the missions to the south of
Paris.

And then there is the Eurostar fleet, which is going to be renewed.

So we don't speak about that much sets, and some of them are already
quite well worn-out, despite the Lacroix refurbishing.

So I don't think that the obstacle would be the rolling stock.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 12:13 PM   #574
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The eurostar sets aren't going to be renewed any timesoon,at least another 10 years. They are expanding the fleet but with sets capable of only 320km/h.

There is not a single set currently operating on the LGV Nord that can do 350km/h. As there are no other significant obstacles saying "So I don't think that the obstacle would be the rolling stock. " is confusing to me. What other obstacles would it be then?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
The eurostar sets aren't going to be renewed any timesoon,at least another 10 years. They are expanding the fleet but with sets capable of only 320km/h.
Which is something I do not understand. Why is the Eurostar fleet extended ?
There are sets in the current fleet that are not used :

- Although they could perfectly be used for the services to Brussels, the NOL
sets are not used for channel traffic

- SNCF uses some of its sets for french domestic traffic

- There was one belgian set that was left unused for years in the Brussels
South depot. It has now be taken over by SNCF too.

So before buidling a new fleet, why is the existing one not operated properly ?
And why is expansion necessary ?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 04:14 PM   #576
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Expansion is necessary as Eurostar wants to expand its services. Eurostar wants to offer direct trains to Amsterdam and Geneva, and the current fleet is equipped with the necessary systems for the Netherlands and Switzerland. The current TGV TMST trainsets can't go to the Netherlands (no ATB-EG, no ERTMS) and can't go to Switzerland either (no 15 kV installation).

The new e320-trains should fix this.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 08:19 AM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Expansion is necessary as Eurostar wants to expand its services. Eurostar wants to offer direct trains to Amsterdam and Geneva, and the current fleet is equipped with the necessary systems for the Netherlands and Switzerland. The current TGV TMST trainsets can't go to the Netherlands (no ATB-EG, no ERTMS) and can't go to Switzerland either (no 15 kV installation).
Actually you don't need 15kV to get to Geneva. The current Eurostar sets could probably already run there, as the line is "French" all the way to Cornavin.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #578
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Indeed, Geneva has always been served by regular TGVs, SudEst or Duplex. In this example Eurostar just needs the extra capacity to start a new service.
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Old December 20th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #579
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Ah, I didn't know that. One learns every day

In other news, RFF has granted a € 80 million contract to a consortium led by Alstom to electrify and upgrade an 80 km line between Valence and Moirans. See IRJ
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Old December 20th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #580
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The line to Geneva is 1500 V DC though, and not all EuroStar sets can run under it.
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