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Old October 30th, 2012, 03:10 AM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It is not like SNCF is closing! Just buy tickets for the sectors you need.
Exactly, not good when you don't know when you might need them. I find France a difficult country to get around cheaply. TGVs are expensive whenever I have tried them, the autoroutes charge a lot and it is not easy to find cheap bus lines.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #662
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot..._grande_vitess
"In 2008 President of Alstom Transport, Philippe Mellier, stated that an 'AGV Duplex' would be developed, and would become Alstom's double deck train offer (for SNCF) after the TGV 2N2."

I just read this; do we have more on this one? Perhaps pictures or design (concepts)?
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Old November 5th, 2012, 01:15 AM   #663
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So far Alstom and SNCF haven't shared anything about a successor to the highly successful Euroduplex (TGV 2N2 Dasye), so unfortunately there isn't anything to share about AGV Duplex. Too bad, because I think it will be a killer train, unlike anything seen before on the European continent.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #664
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Who is responsible for railroad construction in France?
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Old November 5th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #665
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The French state and regions order the construction of new lines (such as LGV) or the upgrade of existing lines. Réseau Ferre de France (RFF) is responsible for the maintenance and capacity allocation. The actual maintenance work is carried out by SNCF Infra.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #666
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The Gates need to be fixed here , there isn't that much time between the time they close and train passing...

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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #667
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Thats not 160km/h.....
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #668
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Quote:
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The Gates need to be fixed here , there isn't that much time between the time they close and train passing...
That's the standard timing.

French motorists are not known for their discipline... Use longer timings
at level crossings, and you will start seeing them driving around the gates.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #669
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Hybrid rail/road tunnel in Vallorcine, near Chamonix:

https://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Vallor...id=po-60647945

It's a ~1.8 km tunnel built for the railway but used by cars when the Montets pass road is closed because of snow. Now it has a railway track and a narrow road lane, but it is being upgraded so as to have a wider road lane (paving also the space between the two rails, just like at level crossings). Obviously trains and road vehicles don't use the tunnel at the same time.

Hybrid rail/road tunnels are quite rare. I know of one in Alaska, and one in Seattle (although the latter used only by tramways and urban buses).
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
That's the standard timing.

French motorists are not known for their discipline... Use longer timings
at level crossings, and you will start seeing them driving around the gates.
There not as patient as the Germans?
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Old November 10th, 2012, 04:20 AM   #671
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There not as patient as the Germans?
They´re not as patient as the Spaniards!
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Old November 10th, 2012, 06:20 AM   #672
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In Italy, IIRC the minimum time of gates down before the train crosses is 30sec.

In the Netherlands, is is much less. I think 40 sec. is the total cycle from lights start flashing and audible alarm blasting till the train starts crossing.

I think at-grade crossings should have at least 90 sec. after the first alert (visual/sound) and at least 60 sec. after gates are completely down safety margins.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #673
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Thats not 160km/h.....
As far as I know this double train is 400m long. It crosses this road through 10 seconds. it is 40 m/s = 144 km/h.
The calculation is not precise for I can't see precisely the timespan, it may be let's say 9.5 seconds. In this case the speed is 42.1 m/s = 151 km/h.
So we can say that the speed is about 140-160 km/h.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 12:14 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In Italy, IIRC the minimum time of gates down before the train crosses is 30sec.

In the Netherlands, is is much less. I think 40 sec. is the total cycle from lights start flashing and audible alarm blasting till the train starts crossing.

I think at-grade crossings should have at least 90 sec. after the first alert (visual/sound) and at least 60 sec. after gates are completely down safety margins.
I know of atleast 2 crossings at the Südbahn south of Vienna that close somewhere between 2-3 minutes before train passes.
However, it is quite ridiculous since these crossings are closed 70% of the time because the Südbahn is so frequented now..
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Old November 10th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #675
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If you close the gates too early (i.e. 2 minutes before a train passes) car drivers and pedestrians will get irritated and will attempt to cross the railway anyway. However, closing them just seconds before a train passes is way too late, the level crossing might still be occupied by then.

In The Netherlands, there's a so called "announcement section" prior to a level crossing. This means that, whenever a train enters that section, the gates will go down. The velocity of the train is not taken into account, which might lead to long queues at the level crossing.

Several measures are being taken to balance safety and convenience. For example:
- The "stop/door-schakeling" (stop and go switch), which is used for stations that are located right next to a level crossing. If the train that is approaching is planned to stop at the station, the gates will remain open (and the signal showing the red aspect) until the train is about to depart. This will prevent level crossings from being closed for minutes on end without a train approaching.
- Engineering company Movares is trialing a dynamic announcement section, in which the speed of the train is taken into account. Since an intercity train may travel at speeds of up to 140 km/h while a cargo train won't go much faster than 80 km/h, this dynamic system will decrease the time during which the gates are down if the approaching train is slower (such as the aforementioned cargo train)
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Old January 29th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #676
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Old February 17th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #677
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Hello

Does someone know if the speed of a TGV on the LGV-tracks is constant at 320km/h (or 270, 300 km/h)?

This because if I calculate the total resistance force at 320km/h on a 3,5% slope of, for example, a TGV POS (A*cw=9m2; mass=390t; Pmax=9,6MW; Rolling resistance coefficient‎ =0,0003) than the total resistance force = 179kN. The force which the engine generates at 320km/h equals about 108kN. This is a difference of 160%. Simple conclusion: the train can’t maintain 320km/h on the 3,5% slope.

But on the LGV-Est the maximum gradient is 3,5% and if I see the YouTube video I get the impression that they run 320km/h the whole length of the LGV Est.

But I think that’s theoretical impossible. If the kinetic energy (Ek= ½ mv2) at the start of the slope is converted to potential energy (Ep) on the slope than the altitude of the train increases (Ep=mgh). But, like in a rollercoaster, the speed of the train decreases when the altitude increases. Also the resistance forces will slow down the train meanwhile the force of the engine will speed up the train. If these forces are multiplied with de distance travelled (x) they are converted to work (W=F*x). The potential energy between v0 (at the start of the slope) and v0 (at distance x on the slope) can be calculated with (where Wr=Work of resistance forces and We=Work of engine force):

Ekv0 – Ekv1 – Wr + We = Ep with Ep=m*g*sin(slope)*x

Rewrite to calculate the speed v1 after travelled distance x on the slope:

v1= √(2*(Ekv0 – Wr +We – Ep)/m)

I used this gradient graph to determine the slope and the length of the slope on the LGV Est between PK210-240 and put this data in excel to plot this graph:



The graph shows a speed drop to 270km/h near the Meuse TGV station.


So can someone explain if the TGV maintain 320km/h on the LGV Est (or on other lines) or if not what is the speed on a 3,5% slope?

Maybe someone plotted a speed-time or speed-distance graph with a datalogger on a LGV trip?

Last edited by TGV; February 17th, 2013 at 10:46 PM.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #678
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The green and purple lines do not make sense to me. How come on the return trip the TGV POS can maintain 320 km/h on the up slopes where it couldn't the other way? How come the TGV V150 doesn't accellerate on the down slopes?

There used to be a video on YouTube of a ICE3 on the NBS Köln to Frankfurt, showing the force-gauge and the speedo. You can clearly see the AFB in action: dynamic braking on the down slopes not to exceed the maximum speed and full power yet losing speed on the up slopes, indeed kind of like a rollercoaster. I can't imagine the TGV being anything different.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #679
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@M-NL

Ah yes for the green and purple Strasbourg-Paris TGVs a negative slope = uphill and a positive slope=downhill. This because they are travelling in opposite direction.

The purple V150 graph is to check my calculations with the recored speed of the record run as a reference. Although my calculations are very rough the speed drop at PK225 is visible in both graphs.
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Old February 18th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
There used to be a video on YouTube of a ICE3 on the NBS Köln to Frankfurt, showing the force-gauge and the speedo. You can clearly see the AFB in action: dynamic braking on the down slopes not to exceed the maximum speed and full power yet losing speed on the up slopes, indeed kind of like a rollercoaster. I can't imagine the TGV being anything different.
You mean this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTQT-licNN0

Looks really like a rollercoaster especially at 6:35

But then the ICE3 confirms the graph (well the principle) is right. A TGV can’t maintain 320km/h on steep slopes.

if someone has a speed and slope graph of a TGV at full speed please show it
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