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Old July 23rd, 2007, 12:51 PM   #61
Minato ku
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Yes now, there is no more Z5300 on the RER C.
Honestly, SNCF don't know how manage* urbain trains, they should learn this in Tokyo.
*I don't know if it is the good term.
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 12:56 PM   #62
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They don't need to go in Tokyo, they just have to learn from the RATP right next door...
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:36 PM   #63
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Marco, Z5300 are not used anymore on C line since 2003.

My mistake for the shared sections I forgot, but in our present case (SNCF's RER) it is a real mess to deal with!
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:54 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklips View Post
They don't need to go in Tokyo, they just have to learn from the RATP right next door...
But RATP has also some probleme like the train without longitudinal seats. Seats like these could increase the capacity of the trains.

The RER A with these seats could have 80 000 passengers per hour (Actually only 60 000).
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 04:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by juanico View Post
Marco, Z5300 are not used anymore on C line since 2003.
8 carriages Z5300 trains have been replaced by 6 carriages Z5600 trains. Some people run on the platform to catch those trains because they don't expect this unusual lenght.
Usual 8 cariages trains can not been used on the loop service Versailles Chantiers-Verailles rive gauche because of the lack of power supply on the Versailles-Massy section: 6 carriages trains have only 2 motors-cars while the 8 carriages have 4.
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 06:10 PM   #66
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RER was thought as a metro network that would link the suburbs with the main métro network which already serve the city centre but is far too dense to reach efficiently the suburbs. That means RER stations would be more spaced out, and the city centre would be served by 5 or 6 stations only. This concept was well executed on A and B lines, with former railway lines converted for RER only and new lines created (such as Marne-la-Vallée/Disneyland branch, CDG airport branch). But for obvious economical reasons the next lines (C, D, E) have been created cheaper way by simply giving two tracks on exisiting railway lines for RER use only, though even on these lines the city centre is crossed on RER only infrastructures/tunnels while a normal suburban line would stop at a terminal. Well the poor application of the original RER concept on C, D and E lines, and their discutable operation by the SNCF company often bring people to ask what's the difference with a common commuter train.



RER don't share its tracks with other systems - that's the very aim of it - in order to allow higher frequencies (up to 30/33 trains per hour each way on certain sections). Well I know one exception though, line E southeastern extension (2003) runs on 2 tracks only on a few kilometres, therefore have to share it with other trains on this particular section.
So basically for lines A & B they built new track alongside existing tracks for a totally dedicated system and the other lines just 'commandiered' existing tracks?

Do any of the RER lines share infrastructure with other RER lines?

I'm sure I've heard lines B & D share tracks under Paris le Gare du Nord.

Quote:
All of them but B line. Actually C, D and E lines run only double deckers (though D line on the Melun branch runs single deckers as well) while on A line double deckers represent a bit less than a quarter of the rolling stock.

Hope that answers.
Sorry for my misunderstanding but are you saying line B is the only line which can carry double deckers or vice versa?

Btw what is the length of a 12 car RER trainset?

I believe the planned London Crossrail line 1 is going to have 283 metre long platforms for 12 car trains.

Will be very interesting to see how the Paris RER network can be applied to London's version (if it happens).
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 07:17 PM   #67
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So basically for lines A & B they built new track alongside existing tracks for a totally dedicated system and the other lines just 'commandiered' existing tracks?
Outside Paris, lines A & B mostly use tracks that were existing but that have been dedicated to this service. Only the Marne la Vallée, Cergy (RER A), aéroport CDG (RER B) and a short section on the southern part of RER D have been build for the RER.
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Do any of the RER lines share infrastructure with other RER lines?
I'm sure I've heard lines B & D share tracks under Paris le Gare du Nord.
That's right, RER B & D share the Gare du Nord- Châtelet les Halles section. They don't share platfoms though. If you consider the number of train/hour this is the busiest route.
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Sorry for my misunderstanding but are you saying line B is the only line which can carry double deckers or vice versa?
RER B is the only line where there aren't any double deckers train.
Quote:
Btw what is the length of a 12 car RER trainset?
I don't know but as it has been already said here, 12 cars train are quite uncommon. They can be found only at peak hours on a few services south of Gare de Lyon on RER D. The maximum lenght is 10 cars (RER A & E on MI2N and Alteo trains), 9 cars (RER A MS61 trains), 8 cars (RER A & B on MI79 and MI84), 8 cars (RER C & D)
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 09:23 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
Sorry for my misunderstanding but are you saying line B is the only line which can carry double deckers or vice versa?

Btw what is the length of a 12 car RER trainset?

I believe the planned London Crossrail line 1 is going to have 283 metre long platforms for 12 car trains.

Will be very interesting to see how the Paris RER network can be applied to London's version (if it happens).
Oops, that was my misunderstanding, I read "which line is it that can stand double deckers"

About the trains length, well your average single decker RER 8 car-train (such as MI 79 and MI 84) is 208 metres long, while a double decker 10 car-train (such as MI 2N) is 224 metres long. Length of the platforms can considerably vary from a line to another. They are generally in a 225/240 m range, but are much longer on D line for instance (300/320 m).
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Old July 24th, 2007, 03:31 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto View Post
Only the Marne la Vallée, Cergy (RER A), aéroport CDG (RER B) and a short section on the southern part of RER D have been build for the RER.
Not exactly...
The ligne from "Gare du Nord" (more precisely "Aulnay sous Bois") and "Roissy-CDG" has been built in 1976 for the link "RoissyRail" (a former "CDG Express").
This branch has been integrated in the RER B in 1981 and interconnected in 1983.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 04:40 PM   #70
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Not exactly...
The ligne from "Gare du Nord" (more precisely "Aulnay sous Bois") and "Roissy-CDG" has been built in 1976 for the link "RoissyRail" (a former "CDG Express").
This branch has been integrated in the RER B in 1981 and interconnected in 1983.
Hmm, sounds similar to Heathrow Express possibly being integrated into a London Crossrail Line 1.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 04:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanico View Post
Oops, that was my misunderstanding, I read "which line is it that can stand double deckers"

About the trains length, well your average single decker RER 8 car-train (such as MI 79 and MI 84) is 208 metres long, while a double decker 10 car-train (such as MI 2N) is 224 metres long. Length of the platforms can considerably vary from a line to another. They are generally in a 225/240 m range, but are much longer on D line for instance (300/320 m).
That's ok, I bet your English is much better then my French

Presume by my calculations the 8 car train carriages are about 26 metres long and the 10 car train carriages are about 22.4 metres long?

Quite a variation, which length do you think works out best?

I think London Thameslink is limited to 20 metre long carriages for whatever reason although that may change with the planned upgrades.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 09:36 PM   #72
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Not exactly...
The ligne from "Gare du Nord" (more precisely "Aulnay sous Bois") and "Roissy-CDG" has been built in 1976 for the link "RoissyRail" (a former "CDG Express").
This branch has been integrated in the RER B in 1981 and interconnected in 1983.
Sure. But just like the Evry and Cergy branches on RER D and A, the CDG branch was designed to be integrated in the RER network from the begining.
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Old July 25th, 2007, 03:07 AM   #73
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Do Regional services share infrastructure with suburban services?

Also what are the different service levels?

This for example:

TGV
Corail
Regional Fast
Regional Stopping
Suburban
RER

??

Also about le Gare du Nord, it apparantley has 44 platforms with four underground. Yet on google earth I can only see about 26 platforms at surface level. Are there more underground or are some platforms split into two?

Thanks again.
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Old July 25th, 2007, 12:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
Do Regional services share infrastructure with suburban services?

Also what are the different service levels?

This for example:

TGV
Corail
Regional Fast
Regional Stopping
Suburban
RER
Yes, regional services share infrastructure with suburban services. A lot of regional trains can be used by commuters when they call at stations within the suburban area: Paris-le Mans trains call at Versailles and Rambouillet, Paris-le Havre call at Mantes, Paris-Tours call at Dourdan, Paris-Orléans/Tours call at Etampes..
The service level is slightly better, with better seats, curtains, smoking areas and a conductor. There are almost no more conductors on the suburban network as the driver is in charge of closing the doors.
The only TGV that shares its tracks is between Versailles and Valenton for the twice daily Normandy-south est service.
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Old July 25th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
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Presume by my calculations the 8 car train carriages are about 26 metres long and the 10 car train carriages are about 22.4 metres long?

Quite a variation, which length do you think works out best?
It's not really a matter of length but a matter of capacity.

To take some examples from the A line, a MI 84 train (single decker, 208 metres, 8 cars) carries 2208 passengers, while a MI 2N train (double decker, 224 metres, 10 cars) carries 2610 passengers. A difference of 400 passengers per train, yet if you compare both trains at the same size, the MI 2N only has 10% more capacity.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 09:23 AM   #76
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yes, and the SNCF realy don't understand the principle behind the RER, their lines suck.
How would you change the concept of their lines?
Like a german city with their famous S-bahn network?
Looking at Berlin all S-bahnlines are going through the city, I know Paris doesn't have a "central station", how would you make the trains run instead?
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Old July 27th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #77
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RER and S bahn is not really the same.
The RER have a bigger capacity and frequency.
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Old August 8th, 2007, 05:10 PM   #78
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Hi! I would like to understand this huge system. As I know a City of Paris in its administrative borders isn't as big as most people in the world think (2 million citizens, area smaller than in Warsaw). But ,when talikng about Paris for example in Poland, it is considered as city with 11 million citizens. Few years ago I discovered that Saint-Germain or La Defense are independent cities. I have few questions: Are the systems of Metro, RER and buses integrated (few operators under one mother-operator??)? Can I buy one magnetic card and travel everywhere? Where does the agglomeration of Paris finish (are there administrative bordes?) ? If lived in Cergy I would say that I live in Paris or Cergy (or La Defense, Saint-Germain)? I just want to understand if Great Paris is a one organism. Thank You and sorry for so many questions....
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Old August 8th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #79
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-In theory all the municipalities who make up greater Paris are independant and on the administrative level, Greater Paris doesn't exist, you only have first the munipalities, then the departements and afterwards the Ile de France region, who doesn't have so much power.
-However socially and on the geographical level, it is all one agglomeration, even if there are some important contrasts on different levels between the city of Paris and the suburbs (but amongst the suburbs as well)
-As for public transports, it is all one system that is managed by two public companies, the RATP and the SNCF meaning that you can very well buy a Cartes Oranges or some tickets that allow you to travel everywhere. But you can also buy some cheaper ones which only transport you in selected zones(there are 6 zones in the Ile de France).

-As for identity, generally in my experience when talking with locals, people will tend to say that they live in their suburb (I live in Cergy, I live in Montreuil). But if they speak with someone from the outside they will have a higher tendency to say that they live in Paris or the urban area. However old people who have lived in one part of the agglo all their life outside of the administrative city of Paris will tend to only associate with their municipality.
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Old August 8th, 2007, 06:06 PM   #80
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Thanks Here in Warsaw, (I live in the suburb) we have very funny situation because in the past many cities and villages vere joined to Warsaw so, in opossition to Paris, suburbs are much smaller than Warsaw and some independent cities are located closer to the downtown than some divisions of Warsaw (for example: Agglomeration of Paris has a structure of city, but inside Warsaw borders you can find villages-not independent-with farmers running their own farm) . Warsaw,as a main power, operates the transport and it isn't obligate to operate outside of its borders (but in most suburbs operates). There are plans to create one operator....plans,plans, plans.
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