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Old December 31st, 2015, 09:08 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
The main question is about the influence of the city at a national and international levels. Considering this, Rennes is hardly comparable to Strasbourg or Nantes, both way more influents...
Strasbourg alright. It's a very influential city for obvious reasons.

But I can't see what makes Nantes to be that more influential than Rennes... Is it, really?
I find them to be two very similar cities. And I like them a lot, the both of them.

But I still think that a tram network was a better solution for Rennes.

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In my opinion it is more a question of political influence, probably that somebody really highly placed has helped a lot to push this project (maybe the old prime-minister, that was from this part of France ?)...
Ok. I guess we're saying the same things in different words.

ps: Btw which former PM you mean? Ayrault? If you do, he became PM much later, the Rennes VAL had been opened for long when he became PM.

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Anyway, in the same time in France we are seeing a lot of very importants projects that are stopped because of lack of public money, that's why it looks like "trowing money by the windows" too me...
A bit everywhere in many other parts of Europe.

To go a bit more on-topic, a clear example of delayed infrastructure, is the reopening of the Chartres-Voves-Orléans line, which is taking forever.
Same goes for Belfort-Delle, in Franche Comté.
And same goes for the potential (and much needed) reopenings of classic lines in Provence, like Gardanne-Brignoles-Carnoules, Aix en Provence-Rognac, Pertuis-Cavaillon, and I'd even add Les Arcs-Draguignan and Pas des Lanciers-Martigues (which would need a bit more work, but they would certainly give passengers from day one too).

Only Sorgues-Carpentras and Mulhouse-Müllheim have reopened.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 05:15 PM   #1022
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Yes Rennes is just about the same size as Montpellier or Grenoble.

But like Grenoble, Rennes is very dense in its urban parts (corridors of metro), something like 8,000 inhabitants/km2 (20,000/sq mi). 95% of the 211 000 inhabitants are in 25 km² (/50 km²) or in 10 sq mi (/20 sq mi)

I think it's easy to say that is a matter of well-connected politicians (even if it's J.M Ayrault...). Rennes is just a growing and well-run city just helped by its ex-mayor Edmond Hervé for the A line. Rennes is not perfect but fort transport and urbanism, it's often an exemple for other cities. More than Toulon, to compare with another city...

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The main question is about the influence of the city at a national and international levels. Considering this, Rennes is hardly comparable to Strasbourg or Nantes, both way more influents...
It's one of its weaknesses, the european influence (economy, tourism, culture). Nantes, Strasbourg, even Montpellier and Grenoble are better...
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 05:23 PM   #1023
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I think in France building tram is also very expensive, so the difference may not be that significant. Let me look up some cost figures...
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 05:44 PM   #1024
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I think in France building tram is also very expensive, so the difference may not be that significant. Let me look up some cost figures...
Yes for example :

-Nice (with 40 millions €/km (2007) : 343 millions for 8,8 km)
-Marseille (with 36 millions €/km (2007) : 402 millions for 11 km)

-Rennes (with 52 millions €/km (1995) : 449 millions for 8,5 km)
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 12:09 AM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floch PC 11 View Post
Yes Rennes is just about the same size as Montpellier or Grenoble.

But like Grenoble, Rennes is very dense in its urban parts (corridors of metro), something like 8,000 inhabitants/km2 (20,000/sq mi). 95% of the 211 000 inhabitants are in 25 km² (/50 km²) or in 10 sq mi (/20 sq mi)

I think it's easy to say that is a matter of well-connected politicians (even if it's J.M Ayrault...). Rennes is just a growing and well-run city just helped by its ex-mayor Edmond Hervé for the A line. Rennes is not perfect but for transport and urbanism, it's often an exemple for other cities. More than Toulon, to compare with another city...
Toulon is definitely NOT an example for much...

Much of the delays in the HSL/new line/whatsits between Marseille and Nice are because of Toulon and its... everything, basically.

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It's one of its weaknesses, the european influence (economy, tourism, culture). Nantes, Strasbourg, even Montpellier and Grenoble are better...
Strasbourg everybody knows.
But in what are Nantes, Montpellier or Grenoble better placed to attract European business than Rennes? What's the difference?

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I think in France building tram is also very expensive, so the difference may not be that significant. Let me look up some cost figures...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floch PC 11 View Post
Yes for example :

-Nice (with 40 millions €/km (2007) : 343 millions for 8,8 km)
-Marseille (with 36 millions €/km (2007) : 402 millions for 11 km)

-Rennes (with 52 millions €/km (1995) : 449 millions for 8,5 km)
Not only tramways are expensive.
All infrastructure in France (classic railway, high-speed railway, motorways) is very expensive.
One is led to think not very highly of politicians about it (suspicion, quand tu nous tiens...), but then again, I'm Spanish, so who am I to talk about it...
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 12:30 AM   #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Not only tramways are expensive.
All infrastructure in France (classic railway, high-speed railway, motorways) is very expensive.
One is led to think not very highly of politicians about it (suspicion, quand tu nous tiens...), but then again, I'm Spanish, so who am I to talk about it...
I have a feeling that infrastructure is more expensive in Germany and UK than in France, but I have no numbers so I might be wrong... Spain is unusually cheap for Europe so not a fair comparison.

The worst I can think off is USA. Everything seems to cost billions over there...
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 02:19 AM   #1027
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I have a feeling that infrastructure is more expensive in Germany and UK than in France, but I have no numbers so I might be wrong... Spain is unusually cheap for Europe so not a fair comparison.

The worst I can think off is USA. Everything seems to cost billions over there...
I was not exactly talking about how expensive is infrastructure in country A when compared to country B... it was more a case of reading between the lines.

Even if it's true that infrastructure in France (and other parts of Europe, not to talk about the USA), is more expensive because the price of soil is more expensive, I was hinting that maybe the costs are a bit overpriced... for some reason. If you know what I mean.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 06:11 AM   #1028
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 11:48 AM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I was not exactly talking about how expensive is infrastructure in country A when compared to country B... it was more a case of reading between the lines.

Even if it's true that infrastructure in France (and other parts of Europe, not to talk about the USA), is more expensive because the price of soil is more expensive, I was hinting that maybe the costs are a bit overpriced... for some reason. If you know what I mean.
Spain has a big advantage compared to other european countries: it could still get large payments from the cohesion funds for infrastructure works in the 2007-2013 period to build infrastructure, covering up to 50% of the costs. Before eastern enlargement, it got an even larger part of the budget for this topic. If you add the low cost of workers compared to its neighbors, it makes it even more affordable.

And well, corruption (that's what you're hinting at ?) does not seem noticeably worse in France than in Spain.
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Old January 3rd, 2016, 08:30 PM   #1030
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Spain has a big advantage compared to other european countries: it could still get large payments from the cohesion funds for infrastructure works in the 2007-2013 period to build infrastructure, covering up to 50% of the costs. Before eastern enlargement, it got an even larger part of the budget for this topic. If you add the low cost of workers compared to its neighbors, it makes it even more affordable.
Yes, of course.

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And well, corruption (that's what you're hinting at ?) does not seem noticeably worse in France than in Spain.
That's what I'm hinting at, yes.
And you are right... it does not seem worse. And maybe it's not. I hope it's not.
But the thing is that the French are not investigating their corruption cases. Oops.
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Old January 6th, 2016, 03:59 PM   #1031
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Compared to the per km cost of HS2 in the UK, French HSL is a bargain.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 03:31 AM   #1032
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And the Spanish HSR is three bargains.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 11:54 AM   #1033
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French railway run Europe's longest freight train

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Old January 11th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #1034
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Key Railroad

Here is some nice footage from Prelinger Archives showing the Key System Railroad, which until 1962 serviced the San Francisco Transbay Terminal from the East Bay on dedicated lines across the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge

https://archive.org/details/6358_HM_...59_01_15_49_00

By all accounts this was a highly efficient system.
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Old January 11th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #1035
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Quote:
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Here is some nice footage from Prelinger Archives showing the Key System Railroad, which until 1962 serviced the San Francisco Transbay Terminal from the East Bay on dedicated lines across the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge

https://archive.org/details/6358_HM_...59_01_15_49_00

By all accounts this was a highly efficient system.
Okay, but what is the link with french railways? Except maybe if France annexed California...
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Old January 16th, 2016, 07:37 AM   #1036
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French railway run Europe's longest freight train

What station is it?
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Old January 16th, 2016, 04:33 PM   #1037
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Is it longest becasuse French drivers take so many breaks, strikes and days off,or is it the longest by having lots of wagons?
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Old January 18th, 2016, 03:52 PM   #1038
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What station is it?
Cambrai? St Quentin? It definitely is in Northern France.
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Old January 18th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #1039
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It's in Valenciennes.
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Old January 18th, 2016, 05:32 PM   #1040
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Is it longest becasuse French drivers take so many breaks, strikes and days off,or is it the longest by having lots of wagons?
Physical length. There have been tests with long trains in France for quite some
time already, and it is not obvious - besides the strength of the couplers, the
length of the sidings and block sections are also an issue, as well as
performance : in Europe, passenger have priority over freight so heavy trains
must still have good acceleration capacity in order to be able to quickly get out
of the way. Max train length is still 750 or 800 m in most cases, SNCF is
playing with a concept of 1500 m trains on selected routes.
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