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Old February 22nd, 2007, 05:20 AM   #1
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Brooklyn - No Longer Manhattan's Poorer Cousin

Brooklyn: no longer Manhattan's poorer cousin

NEW YORK, Feb 16, 2007 (AFP) - Traditionally looked down upon by its fancy neighbor Manhattan, Brooklyn has for some time now been tempting New Yorkers with its red brick houses, sense of space and affordability.

And while the community spirit and leafy surroundings have drawn thousands of happy converts from its richer neighbor, not everyone in what was once the Dutch settlement of Breukelen are happy about the changes.

"Manhattan is sort of a fantasy land and Brooklyn is real, it's an authentic place where we can have a real life," says Eileen Shannon, 52, principal of the Open House school and a third generation Brooklynite.

After three decades of decline, Brooklyn's population started to grow in the 1990s, reaching its current level of 2.4 million -- enough to make it the fourth largest city in America if it hadn't relinquished its independence and become part of New York City in 1868.

The attractions of the area are obvious. While the average price of an apartment in Manhattan now stands at 749,000 dollars, the equivalent in Brooklyn is 491,000.

Add in the fact that since the September 11 attacks of 2001 many people consider Brooklyn to be a safer location, and the population growth is seen as likely to continue.

"What was once a reluctant move has become an enthusiastic, don't-look-back migration to a place with more space," New York Magazine said in a recent article on the tendency of more and more Manhattanites to cross the East River.

"Brooklyn has become an adjective, a shorthand for a certain style of living," it said, blaming the property market in Manhattan for the change.

"Real-estate ridiculousness over the past 10 years has forced the young, the creative and people who want separate bedrooms for their kids to embrace 718," the telephone area code for Brooklyn, it said.

Culturally, Brooklyn is living less in Manhattan's shadow thanks to the growth of an art scene in the Williamsburg neighborhood and the novels of Paul Auster and Jonathan Lethem, who have used Brooklyn as a vehicle for New Yorkers embracing a more provincial lifestyle.

"Brooklyn has more of a stabilized community. You know your shopkeepers, you see the same people over and over in the street," says real estate agent Adam Pacelli. "You have a stronger emotional connection to the area."

Vincent Cincotta, who started his grocery business with a horse and wagon and is still running it at 81 years old, shares Pacelli's enthusiasm for the regeneration in the area and says his store is doing better business than ever.

"The neighborhood is at its best now. It's a very young neighborhood."

Plans to build two large developments would see 20,000 homes going up in the area within just a few years. One of them includes a sports complex designed by Frank Gehry that will become the new home of the Nets basketball team.

Nearby, the historic Williamsburg Savings Bank, the tallest building in Brooklyn at 156 meters (510 feet) is being redeveloped by retired basketball star "Magic" Johnson into luxury apartments.

Apartments in the 1920s block are going for up to three millions dollars, a first for Brooklyn, sparking concern among some locals.

Many fear the boom could end Brooklyn's long history as a home for the middle classes and immigrants -- one of seven Americans has ancestors in Brooklyn, with its defined Jewish, Italian and Puerto Rican communities.

"That's the fear with overdevelopment, you won't be able to have this authentic life anymore," says school principal Shannon.

"The neighborhood is now solidly gentrified, there is very little affordable housing other than social housing," she says.

As for the advent of the three-million-dollar apartment, she says it's not a good sign. "It says there's no place for a blue-collar community in Brooklyn, there's no place for them anymore."

Her fear is that gentrification will change the area into something different, and worst of all, another Manhattan.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 01:45 PM   #2
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I love Brooklyn.....Manhattan's pretty cool too.

If I were to move to NYC, I'd probably land somewhere along Atlantic Ave.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 04:05 PM   #3
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It's amazing how New York experiences such extremes in housing values. That's why I think it's a cyclical thing that will eventually plateau and stabilize. I don't see all of Brooklyn (or Manhattan) becoming an enclave for just the wealthy. It isn't practical because the backbone of the borough is the working class. There will always be room for everyone, just maybe not in certain 'hoods.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:00 AM   #4
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Let me re-post this here.

BROOKLYN IS BOROUGH OF BUILD KINGS
By DAVID SEIFMAN, City Hall Bureau Chief
The New York Post

February 6, 2007 -- Manhattan may be where the action is, but there were more residential building permits issued in Brooklyn last year than at any time since modern record-keeping began in 1965, according to figures released yesterday.

Data from the U.S. Census Bureau shows that 9,191 permits were issued for new residential construction in Brooklyn in 2006, up from the previous record of 9,028 in 2005 and 401 more than Manhattan.

"It's become hot to live in the borough," declared Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz. "It's unbelievable."

Both Markowitz and Mark Kessler, president of the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce, pointed out that the rezoning of neighborhoods such as Greenpoint and Williamsburg from industrial to residential had a huge impact on the borough's construction boom.

"We were poised and ready," said Kessler. "We saw instant results."

Manhattan's stratospheric real-estate market undoubtedly was also a factor. "The high prices in Manhattan are pushing people over the bridges," observed Kessler.

And they're not only headed to Brooklyn.

Housing construction thrived in every borough but Staten Island, where residents have been complaining about overdevelopment and the numbers of permits dipped sharply, from 1,872 to 1,036.

"That's one of the extraordinary parts of the new equation," said Richard Anderson, president of the New York Building Congress. "In years past, the residential boom - such as the late 1980s - was almost entirely in Manhattan and Staten Island. Now, we're seeing significant apartment development in Brooklyn, The Bronx and Queens."

Citywide, 30,927 permits were issued, down slightly from the 31,599 in 2005.

The record, 33,084, was achieved in 1972. The Bloomberg administration seized on the latest numbers as further proof that its five-borough economic strategy is on an express track.

Seventy-two percent of the permits handed out last year were for the boroughs outside Manhattan.

"The crisis of abandonment that plagued many New York neighborhoods in the 1970s and 1980s was solved by rebuilding neighborhoods, driving down crime and improving schools," boasted Housing Commissioner Shaun Donovan.

He conceded that success has come with a new challenge: housing affordability. Bronx Borough President Adolfo Carrión noted that property values in his borough spurted 75 percent in five years.

"It's a little scary," he said. But he added: "The positives far outweigh the negatives."

During the recession of 1991, The Bronx recorded just 22 residential housing permits. Last year, it registered more than 200 times as many.

"I think The Bronx comparatively outpaces the other boroughs because of where we started," said Carrion. "There is construction everywhere."
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 02:50 AM   #5
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If you look at Brooklyn's history, most of the people there didn't even want it to become part of NYC. As a matter of fact, it was only decided to become a borough by only a slim margin in 1898. Unlike the other outer boroughs, Brooklyn was the only one to actually be its own city when it was first formed in 1734 and moved southward around the 1890's. Even today, Brooklyn continues to have its own culture that distinguishes itself from the rest of the NYC, and I am not just talking about real estate and architecture here.
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Old February 24th, 2007, 01:38 AM   #6
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^ I think there was even a competition between the cities of Brooklyn and Manhattan before but the building of the Brooklyn bridge sort of literally and figuratively "bridged the gap".
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Old February 24th, 2007, 07:17 AM   #7
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You could say that, though the Brooklyn Br was built in 1883, and Brooklyn became a borough in 1898. As I mentioned on another thread that Brooklyn's street numbers and avenues are worse than Queens, I was not kidding. BTW, I will only say it once, so I will not repeat any of this again. Many of those streets were actually before it became a borough. The first set of numbered streets. begin in Park Slope after Garfleild St with 1st St and go all the way to 101st in Ft Hamilton, but there is no east and west in the numbers. The numbered avenues start from the Gowanus Canal, except for 1st Ave, and will go all the way to 24th Ave at 65th St and McDonalds Ave, but continue again with 25th Ave after Bay 37th St in Coney Island and will continue to 28th Ave between Crospey and Stillwell Aves. It doesn't here b/c around Coney Island there are numbered streets that have east and west, but they don't have a street that bisects them and run parallel to each other instead. McDonald Ave is created as the median of these streets. For the streets that are going west they will go from W 1 to W 13th Sts to Stillwell Ave, but will continue with the part that is below Coney Island Creek from W 15th St, W 14th St is skipped for some reason, to W 37th at Seagate. Meanwhile, the streets that are going east will start E 1 in Gravesend as well and will go all the way to Nostrand Ave in Sheepshead Bay at E 29th St, but will resume at the part above Marine Pk with E 31st St, skips E 30th, E 44th, E 47th, E 50th, E 62nd, E 90th, and E 97th Sts, to E 108th St in Canarsie. However, it doesn't just end there b/c there are also some local numbered streets that were never removed unlike the ones in Queens and The Bronx. The first set goes in Caroll Gardens between Henry and Smith Sts with 1-4 Pls going between Carroll and Luquer Sts. The second set is in Greenpoint and Williamsburg with Grand Ave as the median and going from the East Rive to the BQE (I-278), but say north and south, with the ones going north go from N 1st to N 15th Sts, while the ones south go from S 1st to S 11th Sts. The thrid set is in Dyker Hts and Bath Beach between 86th St and the Belt Pkwy, though it starts at Bay 7th St and goes up to Bay 50th, and Bay Pkwy is also known Bay 22nd St. The fourth set is found in Seagate between Nortons Pt and W 37th St, but they sort of continues the streets that go west but they say Beach instead of West before them and go from Beach 37th to Beach 51st Sts. The fifth set is in Paedegrat Basin with E 76th and E 80th Sts saying Padegrat before them and go from Paedegrat 1st to Paedegrat 15th Sts. The fifth set is in Canarsie and go between E 105th St and E 108th St after Ave J but begin with Flatlands and go from Flatlands 1st to Flatlands 10th Sts. The sixth set is in Brighton Beach and has streets that start with Brighton in them and go between Ocean and Corbin Aves and go from Brighton 1st to Brighton 15th Sts, though there are some that also say Road, Terrace, Drive, and Place, which is similar to the present streets and avenues in Queens. On a sidenote Brooklyn does have lettered avenues that Manhattan does, which only goes from A-D between 1st Ave and the FDR Dr, and goes almost all the way from A to Z with it starting with Ave A below Church Ave to Ave Z above Voohiries Ave, though Aves E, G, and Q are skipped giving it only 23 letters. Overall, this is the street numbering in Brooklyn, and it is not uniform throughout unlike the other boroughs except for Staten Island.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 09:30 PM   #8
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good lord. this is why i don't navigate the outer boros...
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Old February 26th, 2007, 10:37 PM   #9
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Brooklyn's numbering is a nightmare. Queens, at least, is logical--or at least as logical as one might expect considering each individual neighborhood has a different grid. Plus, no E or W crap, we cut straight to the chase, haha.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 11:32 PM   #10
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My guess is that the reason why half of the numbered streets that go east are skipped was b/c several of the major streets in northern Brooklyn were extended further down and absorbed them, which is why they don't exist anymore.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 01:06 AM   #11
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Putting the streets aside, I do not think that Brooklyn's average real estate will ever surpass Manhattan's. Honestly, it is have found to be cheaper to live outside of Manhattan than in it these days. My guess is b/c Manhattan has been and will continue to be the main borough of NYC.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 02:16 AM   #12
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BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYNNNNN.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 03:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalB View Post
Putting the streets aside, I do not think that Brooklyn's average real estate will ever surpass Manhattan's. Honestly, it is have found to be cheaper to live outside of Manhattan than in it these days. My guess is b/c Manhattan has been and will continue to be the main borough of NYC.
Maggie Gylenhall and Peter Saarsgard are moving to Brooklyn. Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams live in Atlantic Yards, while Jennifer Connelly and husband Paul Bettany live in Park Slope.

New York Senator Charles Schumer also lives in Park Slope.

Brooklyn is the hot place to be in New York. Even Victoria "Posh" Beckham named her son Brooklyn.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 06:47 AM   #14
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The idea of Brooklyn as a "hot" place doesn't sit well with me. I like the think of Brooklyn as being above such inanities. If celebrities want to live in Brooklyn, I would like to think it's because it's Brooklyn, not because it's "the next Soho" or some other nonsense.

EDIT: my postcount is 718!!!!! Fuck y'all, I'm not posting again for awhile, haha. Yes. Repping is that important to me :P

Last edited by AndySocks; February 28th, 2007 at 07:51 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 06:54 AM   #15
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The yuppies are coming, the yuppies are coming!!!

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Old February 28th, 2007, 01:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndySocks View Post
The idea of Brooklyn as a "hot" place doesn't sit well with me. I like the think of Brooklyn as being above such inanities. If celebrities want to live in Brooklyn, I would like to think it's because it's Brooklyn, not because it's "the next Soho" or some other nonsense.

EDIT: my postcount is 718!!!!! Fuck y'all, I'm not posting again for awhile, haha. Yes. Repping is that important to me :P
Actually, if you would see the trend there, these are low-key celebrities who would like to maintain quiet family lives free from harassment by ogglers, gawkers and paparazzis, especially since they are starting a family. They think Brooklyn will afford them that sense of normalcy in their lives because people here will just let them be and give them space. So, Brooklyn peeps are cool.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 11:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotten777 View Post
The yuppies are coming, the yuppies are coming!!!

There already yuppies living in Greenpoint and Williamsburg, so this is not something new.
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Old February 28th, 2007, 11:45 PM   #18
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I was kidding, but you are correct.
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