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Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:42 PM   #221
ChrisZwolle
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Funny, those HK traffic lights are mostly exactly the same as in the Netherlands. Together with that GATSO speed trap.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:52 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
I concur with this statement as well towards the Japanese signal operation.
But it is just weird to see all the arrows turn off, then the yellow comes on, followed by the red, and back to green ball again. If I were driving, I would have stopped for the red in between. Usually, the green ball will just come on when the arrows go away. I wonder does this cause many rear-ended collision.
It is rather weird, but that was only what came up in my mind. Maybe that's how traffic lights work over Japan? (Maybe) We'll never know. Maybe we will someday, but I don't think that will be right away... XD

Oh, well. I won't push this further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In the Netherlands, in case of a traffic light failure, all lights automatically are going to blink orange. (like they do at night when there's nearly no traffic). Regular road laws take over then. All traffic light intersections in the Netherlands also have traffic markings on the roadway, so traffic can still continue when the lights are out of operation.
In Belgium they also go to an all-orange blinking status when broken, but not at night (way too dangerous at some intersections, like the black point (one of the most dangerous intersections in all of the country) we have at our home). Then, either the traffic signs must be obeyed or, if there aren't any, the traffic law "primacy comes from the right" must be obeyed.

Just wanted to state this.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:54 PM   #223
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Sweden

For cars and bicycles

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Bicycles

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Cars

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Pedestrian

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Old January 4th, 2009, 12:09 AM   #224
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Sweden

For cars and bicycles

...

Bicycles

...

Cars

...

...

...

Pedestrian
...
These really do look cool. (Deleted the images in the quote for thread-space)
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Old January 4th, 2009, 02:49 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkb230 View Post
Take a look at this
Japanese traffic light!
But who can explain why the traffic lights behave like this?
The only part of this that doesn't make sense to me is the red being on when the 3 arrows are also on. If only 1 or 2 of the green arrows were on, then it would make sense.

I can see why they would want to go yellow>red before green, to reinforce to turning drivers they no longer have the right of way, and need to yield to peds and oncoming traffic.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 03:08 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonAxDrayda View Post
It is rather weird, but that was only what came up in my mind. Maybe that's how traffic lights work over Japan? (Maybe) We'll never know. Maybe we will someday, but I don't think that will be right away... XD

Oh, well. I won't push this further.
I was just there last month and looking around how their traffic signals operate, but from what I observed, I didn't see anything abnormal (to me) like that. Everything goes in a more logical way in term of maintaining traffic flow.

But, ye, maybe there are different sequences.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 03:09 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natomasken View Post
The only part of this that doesn't make sense to me is the red being on when the 3 arrows are also on. If only 1 or 2 of the green arrows were on, then it would make sense.

I can see why they would want to go yellow>red before green, to reinforce to turning drivers they no longer have the right of way, and need to yield to peds and oncoming traffic.
I agree with him. I still couldn't think of a logical answer, until he did...
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Old January 4th, 2009, 03:19 AM   #228
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I still wonder though, how this is done in countries where this "evacuation arrow" does not exist. I presume that one just waits for all traffic to stop and then completes the turn, though knowing when the light actually changes is useful I think. In Canada we don't have this problem because the lights are always placed after the intersection, so you just complete the turn when the light changes to amber/red and all oncoming traffic stops.
That's exactly what drivers do: pull up inside the intersection and wait for a safe gap to cross; or wait until the opposite traffic stops, and cross during the yellow and red clearance intervals. Here is an example from Japan, which I like that there is pavement marking to indicate where driver should stop inside the intersection but not crossing opposite through travel lane. I wish the US does this in the intersection.




Here are a couple more from different parts of Japan.



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Old January 4th, 2009, 03:23 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Funny, those HK traffic lights are mostly exactly the same as in the Netherlands. Together with that GATSO speed trap.
Not surprised, because HK follows the UK's standard which is probably adopted/referenced number of European countries.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 03:28 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
That's exactly what drivers do: pull up inside the intersection and wait for a safe gap to cross; or wait until the opposite traffic stops, and cross during the yellow and red clearance intervals. Here is an example from Japan, which I like that there is pavement marking to indicate where driver should stop inside the intersection but not crossing opposite through travel lane. I wish the US does this in the intersection.

...


Here are a couple more from different parts of Japan.
...
...
...
...
I liked those images, and the movie explained almost everything about those safety stopping lanes.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 04:08 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I loved the "green wave" they had in the 1980's in the Netherlands, but they turned that into bus priorities so you have to stop all the time to let a (nearly) empty bus pass, sometimes even if the bus and other traffic are heading for the same direction, they stop the traffic to let the bus pass it on a special lane. Really nuts, because only a minute later all that traffic has overtaken the bus again.
In Amsterdam a decent example of a green wave is the Wibautstraat/Weesperstraat. Although not a perfect wave, it works good, the former 'stadsregisseur' did that pretty anonymous (left-wing PvdA!). They removed tram priority here and recently added countdown timers for crossing cyclists.

An example of the countdown timer for cyclists in Amsterdam.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 12:39 PM   #232
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For cyclists this counting down works IMO. It will make them less unpatient since they know when they can cross.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 12:46 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
For cyclists this counting down works IMO. It will make them less unpatient since they know when they can cross.
I wonder how they'll react when they get a red light right in front of their nose... (Happens over here quite a lot, unfortunately.) Then the timer starts all the way around again... Sometimes they have to wait here for (way) over 2 minutes. Sometimes, that can be even 5 minutes. But most people then keep themselves busy by either watching traffic or still intently watching the light. XD

Oh, well.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 01:28 PM   #234
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2 minutes should be the max in my opinion. Otherwise the red light negation increases.

In my city of Zwolle, a busy cyclist flow and the busy ringroad cross eachother at grade, resulting in long waiting times for both of them. Add a bus priority to that and the waiting lines become even longer. Right now, tunnels are constructed to facilitate cyclists so waiting time for the ringroad reduces a bit.

Now I really hope they remove the senseless bus priority and turn the ringroad into a green wave traffic light configuration. It's a policy here to facilitate a modality nearly nobody uses Why they want to compete between cycling and the bus is beyond my imagination.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 02:17 PM   #235
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2 minutes should be the max in my opinion. Otherwise the red light negation increases.

In my city of Zwolle, a busy cyclist flow and the busy ringroad cross eachother at grade, resulting in long waiting times for both of them. Add a bus priority to that and the waiting lines become even longer. Right now, tunnels are constructed to facilitate cyclists so waiting time for the ringroad reduces a bit.

Now I really hope they remove the senseless bus priority and turn the ringroad into a green wave traffic light configuration. It's a policy here to facilitate a modality nearly nobody uses Why they want to compete between cycling and the bus is beyond my imagination.
Unfortunately, we (Belgium) don't use the system the Netherlands uses. Our traffic lights are always controlled by timers and are influenced by the vehicle detector cables. But they don't give left turns separately much (although this is happening slightly more often). This mostly sucks for cyclists and moped drivers, since they sometimes have a shorter green than other drivers here, but they don't actually complain, so... Whatev'.
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QUOTE: "You only learn stuff with falling & standing up again. Especially with a scooter (moped)..." *ouch*
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Old January 4th, 2009, 02:27 PM   #236
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The problem with cyclists is that their speed is lower, like between 15 and 20 km/h. Therefore, a traffic light must be extremely long on green to handle a cyclist flow that doesn't need to stop. That's why you almost always need to stop as a cyclist for a red light.

The longer cyclists lights are on green, the longer other traffic has to wait, and longer than acceptable queues begin to form.

Another problem with priority (for like buses or cyclists) is that most traffic lights are programmed to have the most optimal configuration for the usual traffic flows. When this configuration is interrupted to give a priority signal to buses or cyclists, the whole flow gets interrupted. Therefore, a single bus can disrupt an otherwise smooth traffic flow at an intersection.

The question you have to ask is; "is bus priority important enough to create congestion and extra delays for other road users?". So, would you disrupt a traffic flow on purpose for the sake of bus passengers? It might be justified if there is a busy bus route with lots of passengers, but it might not be justified if that bus usually carries only a few people. However, most policy-makers choose automatically for bus priority, which is in my opinion not always a smart decision.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #237
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Typical Pennsylvania, USA...
(I don't think I've posted this here yet- It's not too far from me- I took it last summer...)

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Old January 4th, 2009, 06:20 PM   #238
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The idea behind transit priority is to make transit travels smoothly with minimal disruption, and to discourage private motor vehicle. By reducing the transit travel time and increasing the private motor vehicle's, it makes transit a better mode of transportation. So making congestion is kind of an "unofficial" goal for other private motor vehicles.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #239
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Yeah, but why bother giving transit priority if the rate is 98% vs 2%?

It would make more sense to give cyclists priority, since that's like 50%/50% in some areas.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #240
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The policy is trying to change that 98/2 split to something more balanced, even 90/10 is still good.

Bus priority works because each vehicle has a transmitter that talks to each signal.
The communication time is counted so that the signal provides enough clearance for the current phase in any direction safely turns into red, and then give the green to the bus without even slowing down.

Cyclists priority is hard to achieve when not each bicycle has a transmitter.
But the signal can be improved actively by installing detectors on the ground to detect any demand for cyclists or passively to install a push button similar to pedestrian crossing. If there is a such high cyclist activity, that may even be reasonable to have an exclusive cyclist crossing phase in each cycle to accommodate the cyclists need.
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