daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 13th, 2008, 12:13 AM   #521
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownBoy View Post
Of course we want it to work here, and that's why it was built here and not in say, Seattle. My point was that just because a building fits with the surrounding context does not automatically make it good.
Of course. You have a good point.
A barn amongst many barns does not neccarely make it good.
However, the LOS both blends in with it's area which is made up of many good historic brick structures that the LOS reflects.
In my opinion its respect to the past and the future is what makes it good.
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 13th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #522
speedblue47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 68
Likes (Received): 1

I love LOS for the fact that 1) It's the Colts stadium and it kicks the crap out of the Dome and 2) It does a wonderful job filling in the skyline approaching I-70. But personally, I agree with NaptownBoy in that it is not good architecture. The same designer had his hand in the Cowboys' new stadium, which I live almost across the street from. That stadium is without a doubt better architecturally than LOS.

Would the Cowboys' stadium worked in Indy? I think so, as the Dome was consider "futuristic" when it and similar Domes up around North America(HHH Metrodome, the one in Vancouver). This is actually futuristic and carries a swagger that demands attention, and is resulting in the city of Arlington(not a suburb of Dallas, the population here is almost 400,000) paving the way to becoming truly urban. The highway infrastructure in the area around the stadium is being streamlined, with large lots being available for development. A huge tract of strip malls and apartment complexes will soon be under the bulldozer tracks to make way for the "Lamar/Collins Complex" a series of urban-style mid-rise mixed-use towers. Old neighborhoods with many abandoned homes and shady shopping centers are being demolished for large hotels, condos, restaurants, and a "Entertainment District" to complement not only the stadium, but Ranger's Ballpark and Six Flags. In short, this stadium will change the city completely.

So far, LOS doesn't seem to have that effect, and may not for some time. It has many interesting features and will be great to watch a game in(except if your seat is behind those "beefy I-beams"). It does hark back to Indy's past, but as for me, if I want a field house, I'll build one. If I want a football stadium, I won't.

And no, I don't know what I would have done different, but I know I would have built it for this era and for the next.
speedblue47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #523
indyfiend
INDYFIEND
 
indyfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Woodruff Place-Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 373
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedblue47 View Post
I love LOS for the fact that 1) It's the Colts stadium and it kicks the crap out of the Dome and 2) It does a wonderful job filling in the skyline approaching I-70. But personally, I agree with NaptownBoy in that it is not good architecture. The same designer had his hand in the Cowboys' new stadium, which I live almost across the street from. That stadium is without a doubt better architecturally than LOS.

Would the Cowboys' stadium worked in Indy? I think so, as the Dome was consider "futuristic" when it and similar Domes up around North America(HHH Metrodome, the one in Vancouver). This is actually futuristic and carries a swagger that demands attention, and is resulting in the city of Arlington(not a suburb of Dallas, the population here is almost 400,000) paving the way to becoming truly urban. The highway infrastructure in the area around the stadium is being streamlined, with large lots being available for development. A huge tract of strip malls and apartment complexes will soon be under the bulldozer tracks to make way for the "Lamar/Collins Complex" a series of urban-style mid-rise mixed-use towers. Old neighborhoods with many abandoned homes and shady shopping centers are being demolished for large hotels, condos, restaurants, and a "Entertainment District" to complement not only the stadium, but Ranger's Ballpark and Six Flags. In short, this stadium will change the city completely.

So far, LOS doesn't seem to have that effect, and may not for some time. It has many interesting features and will be great to watch a game in(except if your seat is behind those "beefy I-beams"). It does hark back to Indy's past, but as for me, if I want a field house, I'll build one. If I want a football stadium, I won't.

And no, I don't know what I would have done different, but I know I would have built it for this era and for the next.
I understand what you're saying. If you put LOS and the new Dallas stadium side by side, just about everyone would say that the Dallas stadium is nicer and has more of a wow factor.




As far as originality and uniqueness, I think LOS wins hands down. To me, the Dallas stadium is just a bigger, newer, more enclosed version of Quest field in Seattle.


The Dallas stadium is built in the suberbs, with no other prominent buildings. LOS is in the heart of downtown. The Dallas stadium has the wow factor, but LOS has the staying power of a timeless structure. Oh yeah, and it's tougher too. Hey Dallas, my stadium can beat up your stadium anyday!
__________________
Indianapolis, home of Super Bowl XLVI!
indyfiend no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 10:17 PM   #524
NaptownBoy
1981 Civic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,911
Likes (Received): 5

The new Cowboys stadium is no doubt more enthralling and head turning, but it serves as a good example for a polar opposite to LOS in terms of architecture and context. I'll take a non-chalant Lucas Oil Stadium any day of the week over that straight-out-of-the-X-Files-lookin'-spaceship mess of a stadium they have over in the Metroplex.
NaptownBoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #525
arenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes (Received): 132

Frankly, the Dallas design is awful.
__________________
My Urban Affairs Blog: http://www.urbanophile.com/
arenn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 10:31 PM   #526
NaptownBoy
1981 Civic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,911
Likes (Received): 5

Since we're in the game of comaparing stadiums, Ford Field is currently the best in the league, IMO.

Now that's is how you do a football stadium. Inside and out, there aren't too many things wrong with it. The building screams "I'm Detroit", it fits in well with the context of the area, and makes use of details in order to bring together a place that makes for a great football watching experience.
NaptownBoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 10:48 PM   #527
ablerock
Registered User
 
ablerock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fountain Square - Naptown
Posts: 1,900
Likes (Received): 29

I snuck around the exterior of the building last night and snagged a few shots. A couple of gates were left open.

I can't wait to see it in person on Saturday.

This photo doesn't do this view justice. It's frigging massive in there.

image hosted on flickr
__________________
matthaledesign.com
naplab.net
ablerock no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #528
arenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes (Received): 132

Naptown, that may be true, but your photo makes it look like an office building in Carmel.
__________________
My Urban Affairs Blog: http://www.urbanophile.com/
arenn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2008, 11:19 PM   #529
NaptownBoy
1981 Civic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,911
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
Naptown, that may be true, but your photo makes it look like an office building in Carmel.
You gotta love the irony though, huh?
NaptownBoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 03:35 AM   #530
speedblue47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 68
Likes (Received): 1

Ford Field is awful, it's a big box. You are supposed to make a structure what it is, not what you want it to look like. That's why we have Greek Columns going up cast in EIFS. That sort of building has no soul except for the one it has on loan from the rest of the city. The Dallas stadium is awe-inspiring, and you know EXACTLY what is going on in it. The shape is chosen to fit its purpose, and the materials are modern. Qwest Field is an abomination - it looks like you took a 21st century stadium and implanted its head on the body of a 70's stadium(I thought it was nice on the inside, but seeing the exterior makes me want to lose my lunch).

Look, I don't like the Cowboys but they beat us in stadium DESIGN. Of course, the city of Dallas should have made sure this was in Fair Park, but they dropped the ball on that, and the city of Arlington basically sold its soul for it. Financing 75% of a 1.2 Billion dollar commercial structure? Jerry Jones isn't turning that down(and it is part of why I hate him). I'm not saying that I wish the Cowboys stadium was built right at South and Capitol. I'm just saying, we could have made a much more bold statement that would have been more true to itself.
speedblue47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 04:59 AM   #531
GarfieldPark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,457
Likes (Received): 1219

Speedblue: Your point about Dallas' stadium being like the bubble-top domes were 25 years ago - being modern - may be the problem with it. If the Hoosier Dome, Humphrey Metrodome, Silver Dome, BC Dome in Vancouver, Carrier Dome in Syracuse, etc. were considered modern then - look at how they are viewed now --- very outdated and out of place. That could be the way the Dallas Stadium is looked at in 25 years. It and the similar stadium in Glendale have that similar new, silver modernism look. But what will it seem like in 25 years? I don't know how well it will hold up as tastes change.
GarfieldPark no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 05:10 AM   #532
NaptownBoy
1981 Civic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,911
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedblue47 View Post
Ford Field is awful, it's a big box. You are supposed to make a structure what it is, not what you want it to look like. That's why we have Greek Columns going up cast in EIFS. That sort of building has no soul except for the one it has on loan from the rest of the city. The Dallas stadium is awe-inspiring, and you know EXACTLY what is going on in it. The shape is chosen to fit its purpose, and the materials are modern. Qwest Field is an abomination - it looks like you took a 21st century stadium and implanted its head on the body of a 70's stadium(I thought it was nice on the inside, but seeing the exterior makes me want to lose my lunch).
I would have to disagree here. It's because Ford Field doesn't look like a spaceship crashed into the side of it that makes it such a good design.

How does the building not have a soul? It's named after the company that helped Detroit grow to what it was at its peak. Doesn't look much like a box, either: Bird's eye view

The whole retractable, sleek, "saucer stadium" may be considered ground breaking for right now, but as someone pointed out earlier it may just as easily become dated within the next 20 years or so. Think of the enthusiasm people saw cookie cutter baseball stadiums of the '60s, and then the domes of the '80s. Today, people can't implode them fast enough!
NaptownBoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 09:52 AM   #533
speedblue47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 68
Likes (Received): 1

People were excited about those two phenomenon why? Because they were relatively nice and they were CHEAP. $1.2 Billion is not a quick fix, it is an investment in a team, an organization, and a community. A building doesn't have a soul if it tries to hide what it is - in this case a football stadium. That doesn't mean it has to be bleachers surrounded by staircases with lights on top. Coming up with an elegant solution to providing the amenities required by a use is part of the challenge in architecture.

I think the whole spaceship reference is a cop-out to reference the fact that uses modern materials. The building is like 90% glass on the facade, like most modern structures. It uses to steel super-arches for support, and reinforced concrete for the concourses and the seating levels. The roof is made of multiple layers of materials, which are designed to maximize reflectivity and reduce cooling needs. So is the retractable "roof hole". It also harkens to the original Texas Stadium. There it's a stadium that looks like a stadium that is modern and therefore uses modern materials.

Oh, and it is called Ford Field because the Ford family owns it, not because Henry Ford helped build the city. And that is their right, but the name here adds nothing to the building's soul.

Look, Lucas Oil will serve the city well and I will be proud of it. But I just think that the city missed a chance to do something that would make people think something different about Indy other than "Yep, looks like they are still blue-collar hickville". With buildings like the JW going up, it would have been great to have a new civic landmark that would draw people to the city in droves.
speedblue47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 04:53 PM   #534
cwilson758
Cory
 
cwilson758's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Francisco via Indianapolis
Posts: 3,403
Likes (Received): 15

I think that The Luke will be a civic landmark that Hoosiers will be proud of for decades. It hasn't even opened and it already has a nickname and the frenzy over the opening is in high gear.

I think the Luke fits nicely, could only be built here, and also as the largest baskeball arena, will serve the City perfectly.
__________________
"Indianapolis has the reputation of a shark striking when other cities sleep."
cwilson758 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #535
NaptownBoy
1981 Civic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,911
Likes (Received): 5

Speedblue, I think you're missing the point here. Even though LOS lacks the "wow factor" that other new stadiums have, it's form, context, and character is much more valuable, all things considered. This is what I love most about it, despite having such a shitty design. Being right in the heart of a major city, it could help trigger new developments in the vicinity. It has a design unique to us, and will adapt well for functions outside of football--like trade shows, conventions, basketball, etc.

Those new stadia in Texas, Phoenix, New Orleans, and Minneapolis--they're essentially all knockoffs of each other, and frankly, their designs aren't even that great in the first place. You could plop those boys down anywhere in the world and they'd blend right in. Whereas LOS might still be around in 30 years and still unique to the NFL, the spaceships will all be gone and forgotten, having moved on to the next big billion dollar thing.

I guess this comes down to an issue of appeal versus character.
NaptownBoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 09:36 PM   #536
ablerock
Registered User
 
ablerock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fountain Square - Naptown
Posts: 1,900
Likes (Received): 29

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
I think that The Luke will be a civic landmark that Hoosiers will be proud of for decades. It hasn't even opened and it already has a nickname and the frenzy over the opening is in high gear.
Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.
__________________
matthaledesign.com
naplab.net
ablerock no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #537
CorrND
Moderator Chris
 
CorrND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,494
Likes (Received): 463

Quote:
Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.
I don't think I have either. Not that this matters much, but the wikipedia entry mentions it. Wait 'til Colts season rolls around...if sportscasters start saying it on air, you'll know it's officially caught on.

"The Luke" reminds me of "The BOB" out in Phoenix when the Diamondbacks stadium was Bank One Ballpark. I always thought that was cool. Too bad they had to change it to Chase Field when Chase bought Bank One.
__________________
Urban Indy
CorrND no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #538
IndyYeah
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chesterton
Posts: 965
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownBoy View Post
Speedblue, I think you're missing the point here. Even though LOS lacks the "wow factor" that other new stadiums have, it's form, context, and character is much more valuable, all things considered. This is what I love most about it, despite having such a shitty design. Being right in the heart of a major city, it could help trigger new development
Shitty design? What is good about a shitty design?
__________________
"Hey Skipper, I didn't know it was bring your dad to work night."
IndyYeah no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2008, 05:14 AM   #539
arenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes (Received): 132

I was just down at LOS today. There are serious, serious problems with the landscape architecture design around the building. It's like they ran out of money or time and just filled it in with whatever cheap thing they could. The design is awful and construction quality worse. Almost every piece of concrete is already severely spalled.
__________________
My Urban Affairs Blog: http://www.urbanophile.com/
arenn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #540
indyfiend
INDYFIEND
 
indyfiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Woodruff Place-Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 373
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.
I was watching some of the coverage of the grand opening party and they referred to the stadium as "The Luke" a few times. Not sure if it was channel 13 or 8, but it seems to be catching on.
__________________
Indianapolis, home of Super Bowl XLVI!
indyfiend no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
indianapolis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu