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Old August 26th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #601
IndyTypeGuy
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I think Gray with much work could be a very good NFL QB. You can see moments of brilliance with him. That of course comes complete with 4 INT bookmarks. He is a big play threat in the air and on the ground. He needs lots of practice and work with Manning. Remember even Manning threw a ton of INTs early in his career. Sorgi despite all his work with the team over the years continues to look like a deer in headlights and is absolutely no big play threat. This team has no chance and no future with Sorgi. I hope the Colts pick up this other guy and work with him.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 05:09 AM   #602
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Quote:
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I think Gray with much work could be a very good NFL QB. You can see moments of brilliance with him. That of course comes complete with 4 INT bookmarks. He is a big play threat in the air and on the ground. He needs lots of practice and work with Manning. Remember even Manning threw a ton of INTs early in his career. Sorgi despite all his work with the team over the years continues to look like a deer in headlights and is absolutely no big play threat. This team has no chance and no future with Sorgi. I hope the Colts pick up this other guy and work with him.
Yes, Sorgi sucks. The Colts cannot stretch the field vertically with him at QB.

Face it, if the Patriots lost Brady or the Cowboys lost Romo they would be in a load of trouble as well. There just aren't any decent QBs that will tolerate being a backup to Manning and never playing.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:42 AM   #603
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What were everyones thoughts about the stadiums look as well as skyline, commentators comments etc?
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Old September 9th, 2008, 03:09 AM   #604
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I went to the Colts-Bengals pre-season game. (Alas, the Colts didn't go to it - or any other game yet this year as far as I can tell). I thought the interior was pretty good. No, it's not Conseco, but unlike for Conseco, they weren't going for a retro-nostalgia a la Camden Yards type look. Rather, it was more industrial. The interior is like a cross between the inside of a factory and a 60's high school - and in a good way. I don't think it is perfect, and I'll write a full review at some point, but I think it is pretty solid and most of the deficiencies easily correctable without breaking the bank.

The Bud Light zone area is awesome. Even when the crowd had thinned to nothing, that place was rocking. When the window is open, it's like a giant party deck. I wish that there was an extendable platform that could project about 30-40 feet through the open window - that would be mega-awesome.

The big problem is that there is no equivalent area on the south side. In particular, when you're in the south concourse at the terrace level you can't see into the stadium, meaning nobody can really take advantage of the skyline view. I know it is a tradeoff with seating, but the Bud Light zone got it right.

I like how the interior in multiple places uses an almost "movie screen" letterboxing (the window framing the skyline is a good example). It's sort of an ode to jumbotron that is cool. Speaking of, the jumbotrons are awesome.

The circulation problem is real, serious, and won't go away, because the logical entrance point is the north of the stadium. People aren't going to want to enter on the other sides because then you miss, as the gate personnel described it to me, "all the cool stuff".

The real problem is the surrounding plaza/landscaping which is horrible. I suspect cost cutting hit this hard.

Bottom line: I think $25 million would more or less fix all the correctable problems. With a $720 million price tag, it's a shame they couldn't have found a way to do $750 and done a totally first class job.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
What were everyones thoughts about the stadiums look as well as skyline, commentators comments etc?
For the most part, it looked impressive. It looked better earlier in the evening when there was still light.

After it got dark, the skyline was a bit black. The convention center area, particularly the dome, was all blackened out. I know the area like the back of my hand and it was hard to make things out.

Victory Field and The Luke, with opened roof, looked great together.

They definitely need more accent lighting on the roof of LOS. The bottom details looked nice, but the roof was just pitch black. It looked like a big black box with a hole cut into it. Some simple lights on all the steel would look great and help the eye understand what's going on up there, not to mention illuminate the giant white Lucas Oil sign.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #606
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I thought this was cool that I snapped, showing how massive it is from the base:

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Old September 12th, 2008, 06:27 PM   #607
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Nice stadium, disappointing team.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 02:26 AM   #608
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I have not been by the stadium in a month or so. My comments are about cleanup and landscaping, and other plans by the tracks. The lower picture is the convention center expansion I take. What will all that be as in relation to the new stadium, with the tracks also there?
Were the cracks in the new stadium visible that we saw in pictures a couple weeks ago?
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Old September 13th, 2008, 05:19 AM   #609
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That area where you can see the dirt is a piece of land that may see some type of future convention related expansion. The main convention center expansion that is currently planned is going in where the RCA Dome currently sits. They've started doing some minor demolition work around the old RCA Dome - but it won't be until they turn off the fans that are blowing air into the dome to keep the roof up - that the roof will deflate and the real demolition work will start. (I've heard they plan to cut up the teflon roof and sell it as souvenirs.) Anyway - all of the convention center expansion will be north of the railroad tracks. There will be an underground walkway coming from the CC that will go under South Street and connect to the floor level of the stadium (about 20 feet below the surface level.) This connection will add over 200,000 sq feet of convention space to the convention facilities.

You can see the area where the underground walkway will be built in the picture you were talking about - behind the black mesh / cloth wall. That area north of South Street and south of the Railroad tracks could see a future convention related expansion. Maybe more space. ideally, a mix would be cool. Add another 150,000 sq. ft of space but also build a big hotel into the project and maybe some street front commercial. Its nice to have the availability of more land to expand a convention center onto. Most cities don't. Chicago has been able to keep expanding the McCormick Center very successfully - but a few places like Cincinnati and Cleveland have had significant difficulties figuring out how to expand. btw - I just read in the paper a week or so ago that the lawsuit relating to the Capitol Improvements Board's acquisition of the land we are talking about - was just settled out of court. An agreement was reached on the price and the jury was dismissed that was supposed to help determine a fair market price for the land. Now that the City / C.I.B. owns it - they can go ahead with the underground walkway construction.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 08:05 PM   #610
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Thanks for the information. I do hope that it all works out and all the necessary land is use correctly and timely. Are there cranes on the dome site? I ask, because Corey's long shot photo from the north appeared to have cranes over there. I was not sure and of the correct area of the JW, being featured in a photo from that angle.
When will the real demolition take place,and convention construction be? Maybe winter?
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Old September 15th, 2008, 04:25 AM   #611
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My beloved Colts are struggling right now. Let's hope they get it together before the playoffs.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 04:29 AM   #612
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July 1982

June 1983
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Old September 16th, 2008, 04:24 PM   #613
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wow, the old ICC looks, well, um, OLD. I wish that those pics were looking north. Talk about changes!
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Old September 17th, 2008, 04:36 AM   #614
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Pink Floyd played the RCA Dome if I am not mistaken. Richard Wright died the other day, he was 65. The basis of sound for the band.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 03:44 PM   #615
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FYI, I attended the concert on Saturday. I am a big fan of Keith Urban and LeAnn Rimes, I couldn't care less about Chesney, and I must say that the sound is definitely an issue. Obviously the number of concerts will be low, but this is something that needs to be addressed prior to the next concert.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 03:54 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
FYI, I attended the concert on Saturday. I am a big fan of Keith Urban and LeAnn Rimes, I couldn't care less about Chesney, and I must say that the sound is definitely an issue. Obviously the number of concerts will be low, but this is something that needs to be addressed prior to the next concert.
If I remember correctly, Conseco Fieldhouse had some of the same acoustics issues that LOS is having now. Maybe they will get together and use some of the same solutions they used there.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #617
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Wow, those are great shots of the RCA Dome under construction! I had never before seen any pictures of the Dome being built.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 05:19 PM   #618
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The LUKE is cursed!!!!

It would have been better for the initials of the stadium to NOT be L.O.S. since that is all the Colts have done there so far.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 11:42 PM   #619
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For you Indy folks, have things improved as far as getting around the stadium? There were alot of people during the preseason saying moving around the concourses was not fun. Have things changed?
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Old October 16th, 2008, 03:32 PM   #620
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So you are telling me that on this $720 million stadium, of which far more than the quoted $15.7 million went for a retractable roof, the city won't be able to open it 90% of the time because they didn't spend $500K on drainage? Holy cow. There needs to be a serious audit of the design decisions on this arena.

This stadium was not sold to the public as an indoor facility with a roof that occasionally but rarely open.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS03/810160492

Opening the roof no easy decision
No drainage means no chances will be taken with weather
By Steve Ballard
Posted: October 16, 2008

The differences in the retractable-roof stadiums built to house NFL teams are evident not only on the blueprints but in the mind-sets of their occupants.

In Phoenix, Houston and the soon-to-be home of the Cowboys in Dallas, the stadiums are regarded as outdoor venues with the roofs to be closed only when weather conditions force it. But at newly opened Lucas Oil Stadium, where Sunday the Colts played a home game in the sunshine for the first time since moving to Indianapolis in 1984, stadium and team officials view the $720 million facility more as an indoor venue with the roof to be opened only when conditions allow it.

John Klipsch, executive director of the Indiana Stadium and Convention Authority, said fans should think of it like they would a sunroof on their car.

"Ninety percent of the time, you're going to have it closed," he said. "When it's a nice day, you open it. But when it rains or snows or you're running the air conditioner, you close it."

Questions arose about the policy regarding the $15.7 million retractable roof after it was closed for the Sept. 21 game against the Jacksonville Jaguars on what turned out to be a pleasant afternoon. But 90 minutes before kickoff, when NFL rules mandate the decision has to be made to either open or close the roof for the duration of the game, Colts senior executive vice president Pete Ward said weather radar showed enough thunderstorm activity in the area to force the prudent choice.

"Whenever there is an imminent threat of rain, we're going to close the roof," Ward said.

That's because Lucas Oil Stadium is not waterproof. Unlike the facilities in Houston and Phoenix, the field has no drainage. Also, speakers, scoreboards and other electronic equipment are exposed.

Klipsch said that was a conscious decision made at the outset of the negotiations to build a new stadium. The administration of then-Mayor Bart Peterson wanted a modern version of the RCA Dome that could host a variety of events. Colts owner Jim Irsay wanted a retractable roof. Both were looking for places to trim costs. A drainage system would have added around $500,000, with full waterproofing adding several million more.

"Budget was a concern, yes, but you can't do all things with one building," Klipsch said. "This was designed to be a multi-use facility. You're not going to play basketball games or have conventions and trade shows with the roof open.

"This isn't just about Lucas Oil Stadium. It's also about what makes the convention center work and what makes the two work together. That's why you can't treat it like it's an open-air facility. We don't need an outdoor football stadium in Downtown Indianapolis."
Different strategies

Mike Lloyd is an engineer at CMX Sports Engineers in Phoenix, which designed the removable grass field and drainage system for University of Phoenix Stadium, which the Arizona Cardinals have called home since 2006. He finds the attitude regarding Lucas Oil Stadium a bit curious but conceded Indianapolis is under different constraints than Arizona.

"If in fact everybody is genuine in saying they want an indoor stadium where every once in a while they open up the roof, that's one way of looking at it," he said. "The other way to look at it, and the way we looked at it here, was let's make it as flexible as possible. But if I were building a stadium in the Midwest or Northeast, I can see where you could make different decisions."

The Houston Texans are playing all of their home games this season outdoors because of the damage done to the Reliant Stadium roof by Hurricane Ike. With a palletized grass field and a drainage system, it was built to handle rain. But SMG-Reliant Park president Shea Guinn said the reality of a retractable-roof facility is that the roof is going to be closed more often than it's open.

"From our experience in seven seasons here, I don't find (the mind-set in Indianapolis) that peculiar," he said.

In Phoenix and Houston, heat is often more of a concern than rain in deciding when to close the roof. Colts fans and players got a taste of that Sunday as temperatures approached 90 degrees, with an open roof meaning no air conditioning.

"I was in the shade when I was on the sideline, but on the field, it was warm," linebacker Gary Brackett said. "But it was a great time -- great football weather. Let's experience the elements a little bit."
Fan opinion

Charlie Koehler, Greenwood, a season ticket holder since the Colts first came to town, was at Sunday's game and said many fans were caught unaware. "People who were underneath the windows were in the sun all day and I don't think they knew they would be," he said.

Among them was Troy West, Noblesville, who abandoned his seat and watched the second half standing on a concourse.

"I saw a lot of people holding towels and programs over their heads (for shade)," he said. "I guess I'm being a spoiled Colts fan who enjoyed sitting in the cool for 25 years. But when it's that warm, they ought to close it."

Kevin Eck, Carmel, strongly disagreed. If he had his way, the roof would be open for any game not played in the rain or snow.

"I hated the dome. I couldn't stand going down there on a beautiful fall day and having to go inside to watch a football game," he said. "A lot of people didn't realize they were going to be in the sun and now that they know, they can adjust accordingly.

"Outdoor football, to some degree, has finally arrived in Central Indiana. If it's 45 degrees and sunny, I want it open. If it's not, I'm going to have to ask why they paid for a retractable roof."

Ward noted the roof has been open for four of the five games, including preseason, the Colts have played in their new stadium. But he wouldn't speculate on the rest of the season, especially with the next afternoon home game not scheduled until Nov. 9.

"We're going to have to do it for a while until we get to know the stadium," he said. "We don't know what it'll be like if it's 45 (degrees) and sunny or 45 and cloudy.

"That's why we're not going to put ourselves in a box. We're still getting a feel for it ourselves, and until we do, we're going to have to play it by ear."

Clearly, though, any errors will be made on the side of caution. Far better to have the roof closed on a nice day than open on a rainy one.
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