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Old March 8th, 2007, 09:22 AM   #41
Loopy
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Old March 14th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitowner245 View Post
Mayor Daley lives in this ward . . .
Slightly OT, but is this still true? I know he used to live down in Prairieland, but I thought I remembered reading that he had bought a place up on Wabash near Randolph, which would put him in the 42nd (ex-Natarus territory).
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Old March 14th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #43
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He was scheduled to move into the Heritage (Randolph and Wabash) a year or two ago, but that fell through. I believe he's still at ~15th and Indiana. If you see one of Chicago's finest sitting on the east side of Indiana in an unmarked car, you know he still lives there.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #44
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Everyday, my friend. My visitors park right by there, because the cop that chills there all day never spends time giving out tickets. I can also see Chicago's finest from my balcony. Mayor Daley seems to be a huge supporter of developing along the lakefront in this area, and don't forget X/O is close to MCP, so I have no worries about this getting built. It has too much upside for the city, MCP, and the area in general for Daley to allow this to not happen.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 08:47 PM   #45
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Same stuff, different article, so I'll only post a little of it

http://www.nearwestgazette.com/Archi...story0407k.htm

Prairie Ave. group fights X/O luxury highrise plan

By Angie Timmons


...

Controversy has not cooled early sales at X/O. Brian Giles, senior vice president with Kargil Development, said that as of late March 140 units worth $70 million had been sold. “People recognize the quality of the development,” Giles said, and X/O’s modern design is “architecturally significant.”

...

He added his company will break ground later this year.

...

Bob Fioretti, Haithcock’s challenger in the April 17 runoff election, said Haithcock “has pitted community members against community members,” in the wake of X/O. If he were Alderman no problem would have arisen because he would have kept the public informed along with way. “She’s the Alderman; she can do a lot,” Fioretti said, when asked if X/O as an approved planned development was too far along for anyone to force the project back to the drawing board.
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Old April 6th, 2007, 09:00 PM   #46
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^ First of all, Fioretti will be alderman in due time. Secondly, there is no way in hell x/o won't get built- it's sold a lot of units already, and has already been approved. This is a weak attempt for haithcock to try and get some people supporting her (won't work).
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Old April 6th, 2007, 11:18 PM   #47
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Man, those PDNA neighbors are annoying. If it wasn't for developments like this, and Central Station, etc., most of them wouldn't even live there in the first place! I mean, yeah, PDNA, they didn't even exist last year. Why? Because, most of them probably just moved into all this new development. And now they want to curb it? Hypocrites!

Man, how do I sign up? I want to join this group, does anyone know when they meet? Shit, I know they may do some good things, like try to get shoddy work fixed and fight for condo owners. But this is ridiculous.

Last edited by robituss; April 6th, 2007 at 11:26 PM.
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Old April 7th, 2007, 06:41 AM   #48
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I was just wondering, what happens if a pro-development person joins this group? What happens?
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Old April 8th, 2007, 06:49 AM   #49
ErmDiego
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Urban Politician - Why the need for personal slams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Urban Politician View Post
AUUGGH!!!!

I hate those NIMBY's. I think that Jeff Ayersman guy is the same as that ******* 'Jeffery' who's been posting at the Yo

Haithcock needs to go more than ever now. Look at how desperate and pathetic she's become
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to personally slam someone, at least have the huevos to meet the person face to face or take it off line. Besides who cares about New York?
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #50
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Robituss - Why is it 'antidevelopment' to hold developers and DPD accountable

Quote:
Originally Posted by robituss View Post
Man, those PDNA neighbors are annoying. If it wasn't for developments like this, and Central Station, etc., most of them wouldn't even live there in the first place! I mean, yeah, PDNA, they didn't even exist last year. Why? Because, most of them probably just moved into all this new development. And now they want to curb it? Hypocrites!

Man, how do I sign up? I want to join this group, does anyone know when they meet? Shit, I know they may do some good things, like try to get shoddy work fixed and fight for condo owners. But this is ridiculous.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not an anti-development group, quite the contrary.
1. X/O - This has been lies, deceipt, and more lies since this was proposed. The Alderman has lied to everyone, taken big money from the developer and their many 'hidden' LLC's (even beyond should be allowed per munciple ordinance).
A) The project is not even close to the goals and guidelines of the City of
Chicago 2003 Central Plan and Near South Community Plan, which
DPD, the City, Alderman, and residents all signed off on. Why spend
millions on a "plan" if you have not intent of following it? Lori Heally and
DPD know they screwed the pooch on this one and are covering their
collective asses. They also missed the follow-up on the rezoning per the
plans after they were developed and approved by the Plan Commission.
One Block North, Two Blocks South, or One Block West, and no one would
have cared about the project.
http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/w...OID=-536886455

B) This developer has a poor history of quality on basic projects, with
major quality problems, lawsuits, or 'non-disclosure settlements'.
Examples include projects like Filmworks, Dearborn Tower, north Wabash,
Roosevelt Hotel (Hotel flooded a few months after completion closing the
business and building down for months). This is not the quality
of any of the developers in Central Station...What to you expect
on a project of this scale? My prediction is that many are going to get
burned, while the cronnies will be taken care of.

C) Infrastructure - Central Station did a sewer study for the entire area
and found the systems to be overtaxed and undersized for the planned
development. A project like X/O will now require the area to replace
over $5MM-$10MMworth of sewers that otherwise may not need
replacing. TIF concepts for infrastructure can be effective, if logical,
but if a certain development forces such required changes to
infrstructure, why should that developer not born some of that costs
to complete?
Much much more to this story...

2. DEVELOPER Quality - A big goal, to work with the city and other
organizations is to drive change in developer accountability. A great deal
of the developers are litering the South Loop with projects that have very
significant problems like Facade, Roofing, missing reserves, problems with
easment issues, etc. This includes developments by the likes of
Legacy/Warman/Barr, Frankel & Giles, MCZ, Dipiazza, etc. Yet, the
problems are being hidden, not properly inspected and turned over, or
forced on unprepared associations with no funds to fight. The same
developers close up the LLC, claim to be sucking wind, and move onto the
next project across the street, permit in hand. Yet there is not support
for the residents; bad development is worse than no development.

There needs to be accountability standards, follow-up and protection.
Issues such as escrow requirements for LLC, additional inspection
requirements and documentation, and performance criteria for permit
approval. Development is a risky business. But some of that risk should
be taken on by the developer, not just the buyer. They money spend
in legal aversion costs could probably be better served in fixing the
poor follow-through of the developers.

As an example, here is Warman/Bar story; in addition they have major
problems with singificant special assessments required at 221 E. Cullerton,
1717 S. Prairiie, yet they have permit in hands for more work on 21st,
despite millions of dollars in quality problems.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index....6&format=print

This Alderman has been here, 14 years, and she still has not plan to manage development, nora plan to monitor the problems it is leaving behind. She is part of the problem, not the solution.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:43 AM   #51
Sir Isaac Newton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErmDiego View Post
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to personally slam someone, at least have the huevos to meet the person face to face or take it off line. Besides who cares about New York?
I don't think Urban Politician is trying to start a fight online with that guy Jeff. All he is doing is getting the point across that Jeff is obviously opposing the construction of X/O, which would be a great development for our city (not to mention its hundreds of residents), for extremely selfish reasons. The Urban Politician as well as the overwhelming majority people on this site can completely see through Jeff and the rest of the anti-X/O crowd who live in the townhomes nearby...by claiming that X/O is destroying the integrity of the "historic" Prairie District...when we all know that these people had a grossly misguided feeling of entitlement in that they think that they should be allowed to live in a suburbanesque neighborhood less than 2 miles from the Loop...and that no major future developments should be made nearby as it would make their neighborhood less suburban.

For all of the people railing against X/O, all I have to say is: if you want to live a suburban lifestyle, move to the suburbs.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:56 AM   #52
Sir Isaac Newton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErmDiego View Post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not an anti-development group, quite the contrary.
1. X/O - This has been lies, deceipt, and more lies since this was proposed. The Alderman has lied to everyone, taken big money from the developer and their many 'hidden' LLC's (even beyond should be allowed per munciple ordinance).
A) The project is not even close to the goals and guidelines of the City of
Chicago 2003 Central Plan and Near South Community Plan, which
DPD, the City, Alderman, and residents all signed off on. Why spend
millions on a "plan" if you have not intent of following it? Lori Heally and
DPD know they screwed the pooch on this one and are covering their
collective asses. They also missed the follow-up on the rezoning per the
plans after they were developed and approved by the Plan Commission.
One Block North, Two Blocks South, or One Block West, and no one would
have cared about the project.
http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/w...OID=-536886455

B) This developer has a poor history of quality on basic projects, with
major quality problems, lawsuits, or 'non-disclosure settlements'.
Examples include projects like Filmworks, Dearborn Tower, north Wabash,
Roosevelt Hotel (Hotel flooded a few months after completion closing the
business and building down for months). This is not the quality
of any of the developers in Central Station...What to you expect
on a project of this scale? My prediction is that many are going to get
burned, while the cronnies will be taken care of.

C) Infrastructure - Central Station did a sewer study for the entire area
and found the systems to be overtaxed and undersized for the planned
development. A project like X/O will now require the area to replace
over $5MM-$10MMworth of sewers that otherwise may not need
replacing. TIF concepts for infrastructure can be effective, if logical,
but if a certain development forces such required changes to
infrstructure, why should that developer not born some of that costs
to complete?
Much much more to this story...

2. DEVELOPER Quality - A big goal, to work with the city and other
organizations is to drive change in developer accountability. A great deal
of the developers are litering the South Loop with projects that have very
significant problems like Facade, Roofing, missing reserves, problems with
easment issues, etc. This includes developments by the likes of
Legacy/Warman/Barr, Frankel & Giles, MCZ, Dipiazza, etc. Yet, the
problems are being hidden, not properly inspected and turned over, or
forced on unprepared associations with no funds to fight. The same
developers close up the LLC, claim to be sucking wind, and move onto the
next project across the street, permit in hand. Yet there is not support
for the residents; bad development is worse than no development.

There needs to be accountability standards, follow-up and protection.
Issues such as escrow requirements for LLC, additional inspection
requirements and documentation, and performance criteria for permit
approval. Development is a risky business. But some of that risk should
be taken on by the developer, not just the buyer. They money spend
in legal aversion costs could probably be better served in fixing the
poor follow-through of the developers.

As an example, here is Warman/Bar story; in addition they have major
problems with singificant special assessments required at 221 E. Cullerton,
1717 S. Prairiie, yet they have permit in hands for more work on 21st,
despite millions of dollars in quality problems.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index....6&format=print

This Alderman has been here, 14 years, and she still has not plan to manage development, nora plan to monitor the problems it is leaving behind. She is part of the problem, not the solution.
Dude, we can totally see through you and your BS. If roofing issues or special assessments were to arise in X/O, they wouldn't affect you or any of the other current residents in the area - they would only affect the people moving into X/O. I don't believe for one second that you give a rat's @ss about these issues. This is Burnham Pointe all over again - people protesting against a development using tons of obviously BS reasons (for example, getting rid of the parking lot would make it easier for someone to get mugged on the sidewalk), while not mentioning the real (and grossly selfish) reasons they are against the development.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 10:14 AM   #53
ErmDiego
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Like Dude, totally...oh my Gawd.

I realize this is a skyscraper forum that gets wood about 'new high rises', cool; it is likely though that many posters here who get the stiffy will probably not even buy or live in these high rises. But the quality issue is real; It is an issue of the continued fraud that goes on with the city and developers. Some people who actually buy are tired of the BS. (I find it ironic that the most vocal Anti-Nimby voice for Chicago posts from New York)

To date, other Residential groups have had too large a territory to disect or support the quality problems, post haste because of the new development being to much to keep up with. THe PDNA has already brought these issues to the forefront with the Mayors Office and DPD with some success, but this is a long haul issue to put some support behind. However, as the South Loop matures and increases in density, it is only natural to look for more input from the respective Districts in the Ward. This input is not usually of the anti-development, but of cursory design and infrastructure review to ensure what needs to get done get's done, and that bonehead mistakes (like putting a garage entrance on Michigan Ave. or adding a red Aluminum barn siding to a 3rd and 4th floor loft) do not happen. If DPD was so thorough, why does this stuff happen time after time?

And Sir Isaac, to your quote
"when we all know that these people had a grossly misguided feeling of entitlement in that they think that they should be allowed to live in a suburbanesque neighborhood less than 2 miles from the Loop...and that no major future developments should be made nearby as it would make their neighborhood less suburban."

This is not entitlement or selfish. Read the Central Plan and Near South community Plan and then get back to me. The plans were prepared by DPD and The Plan Commission, not the current residents. Early development of the area was completed per the plan. This is about the city doing what it paid for and said it was going to do. The plan was vetted with residents and organizations on 2002 and 2003, with specific recommendations to scale, height, character. The intent was so that development had some clear and relative organization and goals, and primarily to avoid these individual development by development NYMBY battles.

Listen, I have no problem with tall and thin, but that is not what is in the current approved plan. When the City spends millions of $$$ in taxpayer money for the consulting plan, has it formally reviewed and adopted by resident groups and Plan Commission, then follow it, or execute the appropriate planning procedures and revise the freaking plan. But the DPD keeps making verbal changes with no clear guidelines, creating this mess.

Also, if the developer in question for X/O was one of the more professional outfits, than folks would have some comfort that it would be done right. I will gladly bet a case of beer on this one turning out for the worse.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 05:31 PM   #54
Sir Isaac Newton
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Likewise, most Nimby's get a stiffy over some sort of neighborhood "plan". You know, slavery, women not having the right to vote, etc. were once part of the United States' written laws - ie, a plan. Maybe we should go back to only allowing white men to vote in our country, since that was part of the United States' plan - the original and master plan no less.

Stop siding with the argument that lacks any semblance of common sense just because some "plan" supports it. The dynamics/demographics of the city have greatly changed over the last 5 years, and any city development plan that was written before this time is seriously outdated.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:38 PM   #55
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I live at 18th and Indiana and I am wholeheatedly in favor of X/O. I am tired of the people in the tacky townhomes along Prairie and Calumet suggesting that they are fighting to retain the historical charm of the Prairie District when they have been instrumental in perpetuating the most insulting form of cheap imitation. What makes a city beautiful and exciting is not some poor facsimile of what once existed but rather the constant change and innovation and the contrast of old and new. 1717 Prairie is bad not because of the poor construction (that's an issue between the owners and the developer) but because it's a poor attempt to "respect" Prairie Avenue that, in truth, only insults it. X/O, on the other hand, is modern, foward-looking and innovative and will actually add something to the neighborhood. We'll never get you guys to admit it, but the truth is that you're mad because you want to live in the shadow of the Sears Tower yet have streets with no cars so you can feel like you're in Hinsdale instead of in the center of one of the largest metropolitan areas in North America. Yes, let's kill development and kill the dynamism of the city by mandating that only horrific imitations of architecture (on a scale that is completely ridiculous given the central location of the neighborhood) from bygone eras can be built. And let this be known, you do not speak for everyone who lives in the neighborhood. Your newly formed group may have the support of some but it certainly doesn't have the support of all who live in this area. The forumers may have vocal supporters from other parts of the country but they also have support from those of us who live right in the heart of the issue.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:53 PM   #56
ErmDiego
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Come on Sir Isaac Newton, I think you are smarter than that

I can believe anyone would equate development plans and zoning issues with Slavery, woman's right to vote. So when faced with logical discussion, pull out the race card, slavery, etc.?
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Old April 8th, 2007, 07:55 PM   #57
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18th & Indiana is that Prairie District Lofts?

What is happening there?
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Old April 8th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #58
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ErmDiego - I'm not so sure you are smarter than that

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErmDiego View Post
I can believe anyone would equate development plans and zoning issues with Slavery, woman's right to vote. So when faced with logical discussion, pull out the race card, slavery, etc.?
...since you obviously completely missed my point. In no way was I equating development plans and zoning issues with slavery and women's voting rights. Rather, I was using a couple of recognizable and extreme examples to drive home the point that using the argument that some sort of prior "plan" supports your view, is absurd.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #59
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Those plans likely did not take into account the extremely rapid development that has taken place in the past couple years. In other words, they are outdated by now. ALso, those plans, while helpful, are merely guidelines; not like the bible is for devout catholics. They must take into account different conditions that result from the new developments.
That area of south loop is basically a clean slate anyway, so complaints about it not fitting in with some sort of plan, or the existing 'character' is ridiculous to me. Complaints about the developer are valid though, but not a reason to scrap a project altogether.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #60
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Plans

Robituss, as to your point that these are outdated or needs changing, if you read the plans, your comment is not accurate. The plans were approved in 2003, when much of the already built development and much of the proposed (except for X/O) was already included in the plan. Eveything that you see already constructed today was included and reflected in the plans. The goal was/is to frame in the lower density area by building higher around Calumet, Michigan, Cermak (it is mentioned specifically about 10 times in the Chicago Central Plan). Examples completed developments or proposed developments included in the plan:

1. Higher buildings along Calumet which are Museum Park Place Tower I &II
(although these will be blocked by the IC train corridor Air-Rights projects
to be announced later this year)
2. Lower density & scale in the middle of the Prairie District (note this
includes the entire District, not just the Landmark portion)
3. Higher density and height along Michigan, and Cermak (Lexington,
potential Prairie Blocks Hotels by the ABC Book Building, etc.)
4. Gradual transition along north end of Prairie to taller buildings (1600
Museum Place, Prairie Pointe, etc.) of 20 - 25 stories.

The area per the Zoning Plan was supposed to be Residential, not Downtown Mixed (DX) use. The city did not do a good job of communicating the changes and let the developers drive the cart, as much of the vacant land was snapped up by Political Cronnies and folks like Pappageorge who bent the mayors ear to change to DX while many were moving in.
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