Liverpool Waters

[buggedboy]

Just looked at a ststement from Peel.

This should raise a few heckles.

"Peel have subdivided the formerly named Central Docks part of Liverpool Docks now named Liverpool Waters".

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by buggedboy

I'm as cynical as the next man, but I don't really think JLA was going anywhere until Peel invested in it. I remain open to being convinced that Peel are all hot air on this, but they are sort of like the Tesco of northern land owners/commerical developers. They may try to squash all opposition, but they do build things. Lots of things.

Direct Holidays was at the airport before Peel - that was the organisation that started the ball rolling. easyjet started flying from the airport in 1997 about the same time Peel took over - they were eyeing it before Peel took it over and Ryanair was also there, too, with a flight to Dublin.

Who knows what would have happened if Peel hadn't taken it over. My guess is that it's the advent of low-cost flying that changed the fortunes of the airport and this would have happened with or without Peel.

Of course, I don't blame Peel for claiming all the credit!

[buggedboy]

Fair do's. I just think that we can't really accuse them of not aiming on being a delivery focused company, whilst lamenting the behemoth that is Media City rising in Salford, despite whatever state support they have received.

Ideally I'd like to see both Waters projects delivered, just before Media City and the Trafford Centre fall down.

[Babaloo]

They operate on the principle that if you hold on long enough something usually happens and this is true. Without public money Media City, the Lowry Centre and the War museum would not have happened. Salford Quays would have been flats, flats and more flats - if it were lucky. It's not exactly an attractive place.

Something will eventually be built in the central docks that's for sure.

I suspect that it won't look anything like one of Peel's renders.

And if the King Edward towers does go ahead - wither the Shanghai tower? I guess that's why Peel is objecting to it.

[BeeGee]

Whilst at uni, Salford Docks were employed as an example of 'sterile urban development' illustrating the negative impact that linear economic development can have on specific areas.

We were bused in at different times of the day (and evening) to show that the 'streets' were totally deserted and void of anyone below thirty years of age. Spooky

[Babaloo]

People from London (and elsewhere in the UK) often think that it's going to be some kind of uber canary wharf with all the hype there is about it and when they see if for the first time they are, in truth, gobsmacked.

It's that much of an anti-climax.

[guenuk]

Originally Posted by buggedboy

Fair do's. I just think that we can't really accuse them of not aiming on being a delivery focused company, whilst lamenting the behemoth that is Media City rising in Salford, despite whatever state support they have received.

Ideally I'd like to see both Waters projects delivered, just before Media City and the Trafford Centre fall down.

They are delivery focused company for Salford, not seen anything they have delivered to Liverpool, untill I do, I remain unconvinced.

[guenuk]

Originally Posted by buggedboy

Is their shop the new Barnardos?

Actually, I'll probably pop down for a nosey. I'll also try to get some snaps.

Scoff all you want about this scheme being pie in the sky, but they are making progress, particularly in Wirral. Thier masterplan was for a 50 year development. They are about 2 years into that. Also, we seem to forget that if it wasnt for these blokes we would still be running one flight a week to the Isle of Man from JLA.

What gets built will probs have no resemblance to the plans....heres a shiny new skyscraper people....oh no sorry its a shiny new shed with a tesco in it.

Got to be careful about putting all your development plans with one company as Preston is seeing, Wirral seem to be going all out in support for this which worries me, I know I'm a fine one to talk considering Liverpool went for the one developer in grosevnor for Liverpool One but they delivered in a short space of time (no 20 or 50 year plans for them) and put their money where the mouth was.

[TommyMogan]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

People from London (and elsewhere in the UK) often think that it's going to be some kind of uber canary wharf with all the hype there is about it and when they see if for the first time they are, in truth, gobsmacked.

It's that much of an anti-climax.

The never used the whole length of the branch docks, only the mouths where they meet the basin.

So much potential, so much wasted.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by BeeGee

Whilst at uni, Salford Docks were employed as an example of 'sterile urban development' illustrating the negative impact that linear economic development can have on specific areas.

We were bused in at different times of the day (and evening) to show that the 'streets' were totally deserted and void of anyone below thirty years of age. Spooky

It will be the same at LW without anything for people to go down there for. They will create the high rise dead end zones you talk of because people have no interest in walking around offices and apartment blocks (see Princes Dock of an evening).

Theres a golden opportunity to build an iconic stadium/arena at Clarence Dock and a pressing need for it in the city....twice they have turned the council down.

At Melbourne docks they built a 55k stadium on the waterfront and this attracted related retail, resturants, pubs, bars and 2 million visitors a year, that then led to a proffessional class of young people, singles and couples, to buy apartments there....when they were there Sony and others located there.

A complete, total success.

I think LW will be a disaster.

[yoshef]

Shanghai Tower?

[Babaloo]

Where have all the 100m shiny dildos and towers with wind turbines gone?

Bring back the Brunswick Tower!

[Awayo]

Kwality English on that poster.

[yoshef]

I'd guess the recent planning policy document took care of a lot of the towers around Salisbury Dock. At least this is a more realistic vision than the previous daftness. There should be better 'renders' available on the new website on Saturday.

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by yoshef

I'd guess the recent planning policy document took care of a lot of the towers around Salisbury Dock. At least this is a more realistic vision than the previous daftness. There should be better 'renders' available on the new website on Saturday.

I guess it is more realistic but it's also - well, underwhelming. One real tower and nothing else bigger than Beetham!

[21C Liverpool]

Originally Posted by yoshef

Shanghai Tower?

From this image, I think they have got it right. Although I will await the new website.

It was too large before, over the top to generate interest. It may well become as big as they envisaged initially in the end but to do things more realistically now to pass through a number of nimby concerns or issues around whether these buildings can be filled is a good idea.

[Babaloo]

Aesthetically it leaves a lot to be desired. The only lonesome tower on the river that worked for me was Brunswick. It book-ended the city before the bend in the river. This vista has a bit of a 'Manchester' feel to it - you know that view you get from where the M67(?) starts of a tall solitary needledick on the horizon (Beetham). The rest of the 'towers' look like they have been shipped in from Leeds.

Peel need to get out of the north of England a bit more.

[buggedboy]

I think we need to bear in mind that we are, unfortunately, not a nation of tall towers.Look at London. It has a tiny number of towers. The needle almost didnt make it. As such we were never really gonig to see a gathering of 10/15 towers over 35 floors.

The main thing for me is that they ensure really urban gran across the development. Sctive ground floors on all of the developments. Cohesiveness.

Longer buildings have an advantage there i.e. Albert Dock.

As such, having a load of towers only would be terrible. A mix would be more appropriate.

[Babaloo]

In fairness, Peel is to be applauded for cutting out the bullshit with this render.

I agree that we don't do towers well in this country. If Liverpool is only to have one true skyscraper then I would argue that it would work best on the Brunswick site and not here. The above render demonstrates that a solitary tower on this scale doesn't work in this location. It's clumsy. It doesn't add to the overall image of Brand Liverpool. If the King Eddy tower does go ahead then that will be its death knell.

This then leads us onto the more important consideration of creating and sustaining the 'urban grain' in the north shore area. We need high density urban housing with, as you say, active ground floors - this is what makes the city rather than the suburbs such an attractive place to live. Maybe this is what Peel will deliver?

[Howie_P]

Liverpool Waters developer Peel unveils latest proposals
Jan 28 2010
by Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Daily Post



LIVERPOOL will get a vision of its future this weekend when property developer Peel stages a public consultation on its plans £5.5bn Liverpool Waters proposal.

The waterfront scheme is proposed to transform derelict dockland to the north of the city into a vibrant commercial and residential hub rivalling anywhere in the world.

Its exhibition near the city’s MetQuarter, at 9 Whitechapel from 10am-5pm tomorrow and Saturday, will feature the latest scale model of the draft project and exclusive new images, to encourage visitors to offer their views on Peel’s ambitious plans that could take up to 30 years to complete.

An outline planning application is currently being prepared for the scheme, which is the largest urban regeneration project in the UK.

It includes more than 150 acres of disused dockland, which it is planned will be redeveloped into a high quality, mixed-use new quarter of Liverpool where people can live, work and enjoy the spectacular waterfront.

Peel’s vision for Liverpool Waters includes creating a major sustainable community in this part of the city.

It is being designed to make a significant contribution to the economic resurgence of Liverpool and its wider area, with new and existing residents and increasing the number of visitors to the city.

Part of Liverpool Waters is planned to accommodate city centre expansion and it is also intended to stimulate regeneration in adjoining areas of the city centre, north Liverpool and the wider area.

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