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Old September 12th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #3241
pendolasco
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I didn't like this openbottle at the first sight, but after some month I have to admit that there is something very sexy in this building
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Old September 12th, 2007, 12:34 AM   #3242
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Wow - that's a heck of a camera to get that shot. I hope the SWFC doesn't have a lot of lights on top. It reminds me of the Sears Tower at night with a neigboring building brightly lit on top and seeming to highlight its taller neighbor.
(sorry - no photo - can't get Imageshack to work at the moment)
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:06 AM   #3243
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flickr, september 12th by Masterploxis

image hosted on flickr


Sptember 11th by madeinvega

image hosted on flickr
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Old September 12th, 2007, 03:44 AM   #3244
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I just LOVE that building, but it would fit better from ^ that point if it were located farther from Jin Mao. However, im drooling.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 04:49 AM   #3245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skymyhusband View Post
flickr, september 12th by Masterploxis

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The claddings are crawling up fast. What is the building underneath?
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Old September 12th, 2007, 05:26 AM   #3246
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The skyline would look more complete if they filled the SWFC and the Jim Mao with a few 30-60 story highrises surroundning the supertalls. Right now it just seems that their is some thing missing below the SWFC and the Jim Mao. Other then this the skyline is great.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 05:38 AM   #3247
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The Shanghai skyline looks great as it is, and its only going to keep getting better. There are to be more infill buildings and hopefully an even taller building fairly close to JM/SWFC soon.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 09:38 AM   #3248
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Quote:
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The claddings are crawling up fast. What is the building underneath?
Hopson center.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:06 AM   #3249
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dont forget the 220m 21st century tower !

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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:09 AM   #3250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJon View Post
Yah, exactly like how cars are priced so high in America and Chicago? Oh, they aren't? And the US government subsidizes ethanol production from corn at the expense of worldwide food pricing that impacts hundreds of millions of people?
The failure of one country's policies does not excuse another country to pursue similar policies. Since America had slaves in its early development, should developing countries do so as well? China, unlike America, has the authority to restrict car ownership, yet they do not. Democracy is terrible at doing unpopular things; China doesn't have that as an excuse. Officials turn a blind eye to an evil they have the power to contain. You should realize a person need not live in moral high ground to criticize the blatantly wrong; does a Sudanese forumer have no right to question Guantanamo Bay? Should I live in Singapore before speaking of law enforcement, or Norway for coal power?
Quote:
I see -- you just want to point fingers at China and their 'horrible environmental impact' without putting any perspective to current or historical realities about modern industrialization.
Why are you so sensitive? My post strictly dealt with the inevitable failings of car culture -- which part of that statement violates "historical perspective," as you say? The prevalence of automobiles here in Chicago and most of America is a colossal failure of urban planning, and that failure would be even more gargantuan if repeated in densely-populated, resource-strapped China, a place that physically cannot accommodate car ownership, much less its environmental impact.

I hope you're not too cynical to carry a discussion. America has a load of problems, but you obviously thought I believed otherwise.

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Regarding the building, I really don't see the point of an elevated skybridge. Does it serve some purpose that a regular observation deck could not serve better?
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:25 AM   #3251
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i thoguht nothing much was going on recently..but look another project 180m..
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:41 AM   #3252
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At last!!
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7...n9qow6o6pd.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ankmansion.jpg
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:46 AM   #3253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theworldshallcry View Post
The failure of one country's policies does not excuse another country to pursue similar policies. Since America had slaves in its early development, should developing countries do so as well? China, unlike America, has the authority to restrict car ownership, yet they do not. Democracy is terrible at doing unpopular things; China doesn't have that as an excuse. Officials turn a blind eye to an evil they have the power to contain. You should realize a person need not live in moral high ground to criticize the blatantly wrong; does a Sudanese forumer have no right to question Guantanamo Bay? Should I live in Singapore before speaking of law enforcement, or Norway for coal power?

Why are you so sensitive? My post strictly dealt with the inevitable failings of car culture -- which part of that statement violates "historical perspective," as you say? The prevalence of automobiles here in Chicago and most of America is a colossal failure of urban planning, and that failure would be even more gargantuan if repeated in densely-populated, resource-strapped China, a place that physically cannot accommodate car ownership, much less its environmental impact.

I hope you're not too cynical to carry a discussion. America has a load of problems, but you obviously thought I believed otherwise.

*****

Regarding the building, I really don't see the point of an elevated skybridge. Does it serve some purpose that a regular observation deck could not serve better?
Authoritarian government is not equal to tyranny. Chinese government has also to form its policy on consensus. Car ownership is a part of consensus. A car manufacture industry can create jobs, develop useful technology, pay tax, which in its turn can finance health, education, pension, public infrastructure like subway and national railway network. America is in a much better position to wean off automobile culture, or at least buy less polluting cars, share necessary technologies, invest or subsidize in less developed countries to promote a more environment-friendly culture.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 10:59 AM   #3254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_sh View Post
Authoritarian government is not equal to tyranny. Chinese government has also to form its policy on consensus. Car ownership is a part of consensus. A car manufacture industry can create jobs, develop useful technology, pay tax, which in its turn can finance health, education, pension, public infrastructure like subway and national railway network. America is in a much better position to wean off automobile culture, or at least buy less polluting cars, share necessary technologies, invest or subsidize in less developed countries to promote a more environment-friendly culture.
How is America in a "better position" to wean off automobile culture when China doesn't even have it quite yet? Car culture is like a drug addiction, it's not easy to quit once addicted. Besides, America is in a terrible place to wean off car culture, because we have built cities that cannot support human habitation without the use of cars. China cannot afford to build like this:

That picture is of Shanghai. I have visited the city, and there is definitely still hope at this point, but the government just keeps building more highways. It's really sad -- China still has a chance to avoid America's mistakes, but everybody wants to make the same mistakes over again.

Authoritarian government isn't tyranny, but it's in a better position to guide its people when the people don't know what's best for themselves. The people think cars are a status symbol, and don't realize the terrible cost to society in the long term, so it's government's job to help them.

A good read: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNV8RIVTQ.DTL
Sorry, the article's all English, I don't know Chinese.

Last edited by theworldshallcry; September 12th, 2007 at 11:09 AM.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:02 AM   #3255
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I think it's cool that you can look down on another "supertall" Jin Mao.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:09 AM   #3256
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Once SWFC opens its observation deck, Jin Mao's deck will go out of business. They should repurpose it for other uses.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #3257
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At last!!
your images.. yup been a long time!


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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:29 AM   #3258
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Once SWFC opens its observation deck, Jin Mao's deck will go out of business. They should repurpose it for other uses.
Part of the Hyatt Hotel below? would make a nice bar.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 11:34 AM   #3259
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Part of the Hyatt Hotel below? would make a nice bar.
Then they'd have to repurpose the bar on the 55th's floor. They could convert the obs deck into a restaurant -- there are never enough restaurants in Shanghai, or so I hear.
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Old September 12th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #3260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theworldshallcry View Post
How is America in a "better position" to wean off automobile culture when China doesn't even have it quite yet? Car culture is like a drug addiction, it's not easy to quit once addicted. Besides, America is in a terrible place to wean off car culture, because we have built cities that cannot support human habitation without the use of cars. China cannot afford to build like this:

That picture is of Shanghai. I have visited the city, and there is definitely still hope at this point, but the government just keeps building more highways. It's really sad -- China still has a chance to avoid America's mistakes, but everybody wants to make the same mistakes over again.

Authoritarian government isn't tyranny, but it's in a better position to guide its people when the people don't know what's best for themselves. The people think cars are a status symbol, and don't realize the terrible cost to society in the long term, so it's government's job to help them.

A good read: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNV8RIVTQ.DTL
Sorry, the article's all English, I don't know Chinese.
That Chinese don't have cars does not mean that they don't have a car culture. They watch American movies, read American literature, buy American goods (GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all present), in which American car culture is perfectly incorporated. Not only America is car addicted, the whole America imitating world is. If Americans can make it cool to drive a more energy efficient car or not drive at all, it will be an enormous contribution to the mankind.
And your criticism about China building highways does not make sense. The ratio between population and road network density in China is completely another dimension than in North America. Highways in China play a very important role in bus network. Shanghai has a largest bus fleet in the whole world. Highways are a plus for China's environment, not a minus. In the mean time, Chinese government have never neglected rail transport. Every major Chinese cities are building subways, Chinese government invests hugely in building and maintaining national railroad system. Shanghai alone will open 3 new subway links, more than 40 miles of length, while entertaining one bullet train project linking Beijing, one goods rail lengthening towards the newly opened deep water habor. Tell me similar projects going on in North America.
Do you know why America is in a better position to wean off car culture? Because she has more financial means, more patents in environment-friendly technology, a public more educated in environmental consciousness.
And she has enjoyed all the benefits of car culture. Now is the next one in line.
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