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Old March 6th, 2007, 12:08 AM   #21
SimonTheSoundMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke View Post

I tell you what, Coventry is welcome to become a great suburb of London and I am happy for Birmingham to remain the l. with close ties to our great southern neighbour
Hey we account for more than 25% of the UK's economy, far more than the likes of Manchester for example. Manchester may be one of the fastest growing regional economies, but it will take 15-20 years (sourced from a lecture at my university) to catch up with Brum if things go at the same rate today, Brum's economy is about to speed up an awful lot in the next 10 years.

Do not believe the figures released by Manchester, they measure them differently to us to make it market better. Real analysists (academics told me the facts) know this, but the average joe or businessman does not.

Manchester, yes, does look up to London, but I though Brum looks up to other countries on an international scale, which the likes of Manchester do not.

We are far more than "largest most economically powerful city of Central England".
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Old March 6th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #22
Elizabeth Kinoke
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Originally Posted by pauliewalnuts View Post
To reject the idea of capitalising on our closeness to London out of some ill-found sense of injured pride would be absolutely crazy.

London is one of a handful of global megacities, Birmingham has in the past tried to compete and failed. We've also grumbled about the fact that our proximity to London works against us.

Maybe it is time to start to use this in our favour, which will involve forgetting outdated prejudices. Moaning and bitching about whether we've the right to call ourselves the second city any more is surely missing the point entirely. In a country as focused on its capital as much as this country is, being the "second city" is entirely meaningless. We've got a huge advantage in that we are easily reachable from London, lets start exploiting that.

I, and lots of other people, live in Leamington and worked in London for 2 years, commuting down. Brum is my home city, the city I go shopping in, the city I go to for my culture fix. London was the city I went to to make a living. When you look at that microlevel, there must be thousands upon thousands of examples of the way Brum can benefit from its proximity to the capital.
Yes but you are missing the point I am making, of course embrace London and what it can offer but not at the expense of our own unique identity, besides as I've already stated has London agreed to this embracing of Birmingham and why the need for the term.. a suburb of London, how utterly ridiculous.

Very naive to think we could get anything more than we already have IMO, improve trade and journey links by all means but this has already been tried and a fair bit of cash has been thrown at it with events set up in London over the years by BCC to improve Brum's image in the Capital, so anyway, I tried reading the article again and I kept getting put off by that professor's (forgotten his name) face, and I couldn't get "...a suburb of London" out of my head without wanting to tear the paper up in a fit of anger

So please someone tell me who has read the article, how did this guy suggest that we get set about suckering up to London to get all this benefit and what exactly are the benefits that he stated that we do not already have? Birmingham stands alone not for want of trying in the past, it stands alone because it has to and considering this fact I think it does pretty good, could do better of course.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MarcusValhalla View Post
I'm off to a meeting in London tomorrow (with Railtrack... I'll keep my eyes peeled...) - but that's only my afternoon - the morning will be "as normal". If I was going to a meeting in London from Manchester, my day would be all gone - the majority of it on the train. That's the advantage of being closer to London, not that we are some kind of dormitory town, but that if you need to go there it doesn't impact too much on your day. And it's something we should be selling.
We have been selling Brum to London for about 400 years actually, heres the latest evidence..

http://www.birminghamw1.com/

unfortunately you have to overcome issues raised here by this kid though...

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/birmi...52.html?ixsid=

Like I said there is little point in learning to love London if they have little or no intention of returning the gesture, Birmingham is heading in the right direction by focusing on its own projects, Selfridges and Harvey Nichols came to Brum and various other London based exclusive shops and they have been given pride of place which has helped Brum's image as shoppingham but what we all agree is that the city needs more smaller independent shops which will NOT and should not come from London, more effort needs to be put into exposing what talent we already have in this great city, IMO the problem has actually been that we have looked else where for inspiration for too long and if we actually concentrated more on what Birmingham already has and nurture that as opposed to crying over what Manchester or London is doing we would gain far more respect and identity as a location that others would want to be a part of.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM   #24
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Well, with the statement about being a suburb of Greater London, we now all know how the people in the areas surrounding Brum feel about becoming a part of Greater Birmingham, and the reason we've been lumped with such a stupid name for it.

So, I have a new suggestion which will be equally (un)popular with everyone: "Greater Greater London"
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Old March 6th, 2007, 10:09 AM   #25
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EK - you must read the report before commenting on it like this. The first page (I haven't read it all yet) says "There is no executive summary because you end up with bland headlines or inaccurate statements".

Why has the idea of people living in Birmingham but commuting to London hit such a raw nerve? That is what a suburb does, and tbh if people spend their free time in Brum and their working time in London, then I am delighted. It will boost our population, leisure and cultural facilities, and encourage businesses with a sole London base to expand into Birmingham. We are not some sleepy little Kent town that falls quiet at 9am and we are more than capable of sustaining growth and employment whilst taking the heat off the south-east.

We are the only major city within commuting distance of London, yet we do not seem to promote that as an advantage. We should be marketing ourselves as the meeting point between the south and the north, as the place to base yourself if you are a northern company seeking business with the south, and if you are a southern company seeking to do business with the rest of the UK.

I won't even get into the argument about Birmingham's lack of 'swagger' or shouting its achievements, and its propensity for self-deprecation

In all honesty, "Capital of Central England" sounds crap. We may as well call ourselves "Capital of the West Midlands" or just "Birmingham".

We did need someone like Professor Parkinson to write this report. An outside view is always good, he seems to have an affinity with the city, and he says it like it is. Very objective "you have been good at this, not good at this and OK at this". "You need one of these, more of these, you have too many of these, and you have this which no-one else has".

He's great
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Old March 6th, 2007, 10:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Well, with the statement about being a suburb of Greater London, we now all know how the people in the areas surrounding Brum feel about becoming a part of Greater Birmingham, and the reason we've been lumped with such a stupid name for it.

So, I have a new suggestion which will be equally (un)popular with everyone: "Greater Greater London"
"Greater than London"
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Old March 6th, 2007, 10:23 AM   #27
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The prof seems to speak alot of sense. A few sections jumped out at me. These especially.

Quote:
Better architecture

6.61 The range and quality of new buildings in Birmingham city centre has improved substantially in recent years with the Mailbox, Selfridges, Colmore Plaza. But despite this, many argue that architectural standards are not high enough for a major European or global city.

There are few iconic buildings. The city council needs to raise the bar higher. It should be more self-confident. It must not be a willing victim for developers and insist upon higher standards in future.

It should continue its work exploring the potential for more high rise buildings and greater massing in the city centre. Birmingham must move away from off the shelf developments by national developers that characterise so much of building in the city.

It should begin to cultivate a generation of local developers and architects who do work that is appropriate to the place and history of Birmingham. There are constant stories of local architects finding it easier to work outside the city than inside it.

It should do more to get into long term relationships with local developers and architects so that the pool of local indigenous talent is grown.

Local competitions only open to young local architects should be encouraged.
6.77 V&A Museum!
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Old March 6th, 2007, 10:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
6.94 The Masterplan must identify and prioritise the areas for development in the city.

It must also recognise the significance of the expansion of the city centre. It must also think of the new parts of the city centre between the inner and middle ring roads as more urban in future. Currently it feels suburban with low densities, low rise and undistinguished architecture.

The quality, density and height of the extended city centre must be raised over the next twenty years. It provides Birmingham with a great opportunity to undertake world class urban development.
...
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Old March 6th, 2007, 10:35 AM   #29
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In the shadow of London

6.30 The term ‘second city’ divides Brummies. Some are proud of it - others find it
demeaning. Birmingham is schizophrenic about its place in the middle of the country and possibly in the shadow of London. Some have argued that it is difficult to market a city which is physically too close to and culturally too similar to the capital. They argue it is easier to market a city like Manchester which is far enough away to have its distinctive culture. There is a feeling that the south of the country gets the growth, the north gets the political attention but that the middle misses out on both. There may be something in that. But Birmingham must resist that attitude. There is a much bigger prize in emphasising Birmingham’s closeness to and links with London. Birmingham has the ability to take some of the pressure off London as that city pays the price of success with overheated labour and housing markets and inadequate transport infrastructure. One entrepreneur said ‘We should sell Birmingham as an attractive suburb of London.’ The linkages and connections will be complex - with a mix of relocation and almost commuting. But Birmingham should work hard to improve its transport links to London and shrink the distance between them so that it becomes an increasingly realistic option for investors, employers and workers who must see it as a part of a wider south east. Increasingly cities are looking for high value added public sector and government jobs which bring high impact rather than high volume. Birmingham should work harder on its case that it is a good place to which civil service jobs can be relocated.
I thought maybe it might help - if people are refusing to read the report itself - if they could see the London suburb quote in context. However, as the introduction says this report shouldn't be selectively read, rather it should be read as a whole.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 11:20 AM   #30
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the quote you have posted above is taken from a different article that I read, probably within the same paper.

Ok I shall read the full articles before posting again, with an open mind, I shall try and switch off my throbbbing Brumulator first.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #31
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Where can one buy a Brumulator? Or does one grow one?
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Old March 6th, 2007, 11:46 AM   #32
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There is an electronic drum machine called a 'Drumulator', but Brumulator?
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Old March 6th, 2007, 01:04 PM   #33
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Mine was installed at birth, some children are circumcised but I was fitted with a tiny Brumulator which blasts out rhythmic flurries of Birmingham beats n bleeps, I think my setting has malfunctioned recently and the tempo is stuck on 160 bpm.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 01:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke View Post
160 bpm.
Will that be Brumulations Per Minute then Lizzie?
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Last edited by blahblah; March 6th, 2007 at 03:41 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 01:54 PM   #35
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Will that be Bumulations Per Minute then Lizzie?

oooooooohhhhh, Matron!!
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:08 PM   #36
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Get a grip you lot!

Of course Birmingham has a strong identity, and of course we are still an economic powerhouse, though sadly not as full of power as we were when we led the manufacturing based economy.

But, much as I hate the phrase "suburb of London" with a passion and am as much a proud Brummie as any of you lot, we would be cutting our noses of to spite our faces if we didn't seek to benefit from the fact that we are less than a 100 miles from what is regarded as one of the "global cities", namely London.

Look at it. We have arguablty a better environment, better housing (on balance - ie less cramped) fantastic facilities, but can be in London in an hour.

Why do you think the Yanks would base themselves here?

Let's sell our proximity, and not get hung up on the word "suburb".
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #37
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We were talking about Brumulations & EK's rate at somewhere between hard house and happy hardcore...
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #38
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oooooohhhhh Matron, again!
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Old March 6th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biosonic View Post


We were talking about Brumulations & EK's rate at somewhere between hard house and happy hardcore...
Sorry! I came in cold and read the whole thread! Thought I'd jump in and rant!
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Old March 6th, 2007, 06:45 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke View Post
I think you've lost your bloody marbles mate,
For the love of God, no one should post on this forum till they have read the whole document in full. You can speed read it quickly as its written in a really accessible style. As said earlier, its also written without summary for good reason to stop some of the sections being taken as something they are not and causing a riot.

Every location has an identity and I was providing some lighter suggestions to the tone - franky we couldnt easily sell some of those names without them being in a slogan next to official name. I bet Croydon or Enfield dont get so worked up about being in Greater London and not having seperate identity known nationally. We all, suburbs or locations in their own right have a history, purpose and future but lets not get hung up on what some may consider us as.

If they consider us as a suburb of London then what we can do is say why that is good (transport et al) but also sell the fact we are an awesome location in our own right and this is why....

We live in an interconnected world in which you can live in Brum, commute to London and holiday in France etc. London in its current form is a global city which particular for banking and finance is global centre. Our financial services can benefit from being close to this but also of having a city of less cut and thrust.

Ive never been so happy reading the report so not sure why some have gone hell for leather against it.
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