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Old June 5th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #281
ChrisZwolle
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I prefer navigating by route numbers. That way I'm sure which route I exactly use. Many road authorities try to alter routing by signing destinations via preferred routes, but that may not be the route that I want to use.

Example;

This morning, I was driving in Germany near Wolfsburg, and I wanted to drive towards Gifhorn. However, the first exit signed to Gifhorn would take me another route I wanted to use, because I wanted to use B188, so I waited until I saw B188 signed, and took that exit. That way I took the route I exactly wanted.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #282
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I've had similar issues with navigating on route numbers as well. I once took an exit for the German B50, which turned out to be the exit to the B50-North only (and I had to go South). And then you have those many instances where route numbers are omitted or just a silly mistake was made. For those reasons, a route number plus one or more sensible focal points is optimal.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 09:41 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
I see the road number and control cities / other cities on the road signs as complementary. Even in Europe, where control cities are much more prominent, you can never rely on the cities on the signs. First of all, you don't know which cities will appear on the signs for your route. Second, by looking at place names only you may be guided in a direction that is not the one you intended. Route numbers only, on the other hand, look like gibberish for people not too familiar locally. Signs showing places that the driver knows provide reassurance, much more than an I-80 trailblazer.

In my opinion, saying "hey, we've got road numbers so control cities are unimportant" leaves a system that is less than optimal. In the ideal system, focals and road numbers interact.
Personally, I agree with you; I was trying to describe what seems to be the American authorities' thinking on this. I'd like to see more generous - and more consistent - use of destinations on American signage. And more distance signs. No need to go to the extremes you see in, say, France, but two or three destinations per direction at Interstate junctions. I also agree with Chris that I like to choose my own routes. And I see little point in having numbers that aren't going to be posted, like Belgium's A-numbers on routes that have E's. Either post them or stop showing them on maps. Not that the maps are within the government's control....
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Old June 6th, 2010, 12:09 PM   #284
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Rotterdam, the Netherlands: Paris is 419 km but for the cyclists of the "Tour the France" (starts 3rd of July in Rotterdam) it is a bit further away


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Old June 6th, 2010, 11:41 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Personally, I agree with you; I was trying to describe what seems to be the American authorities' thinking on this. I'd like to see more generous - and more consistent - use of destinations on American signage. And more distance signs. No need to go to the extremes you see in, say, France, but two or three destinations per direction at Interstate junctions. I also agree with Chris that I like to choose my own routes. And I see little point in having numbers that aren't going to be posted, like Belgium's A-numbers on routes that have E's. Either post them or stop showing them on maps. Not that the maps are within the government's control....
I think we're pretty much on one line then. Two destinations per directions is usually more than enough. Sometimes one is enough, sometimes three will make sense. It brings you to a number of destinations that's easy to grasp when approaching an intersection at high speed. Two or three destinations for the road ahead can also be kept continuous on distance signs, on which you could then add the two main focals that you are going to indicate at the next motorway intersection. In other words, German system.

Regarding Belgium, A-numbers make sense (for a variety of reasons) for the authorities. Belgium is not the only country where E-routes have a separate administrative number. Denmark is another example, while Switzerland, too, uses administrative numbers that differ from the numbers actually signposted. Thankfully, those Danish and Swiss administrative numbers are not shown on maps. Belgian numbers are, and I believe that's unfortunate. So someone should kindly tell map makers that posting A-numbers on maps of Belgian E-routes is confusing for the driver. Even though you can see the A-numbers on those routes. Just look at the kilometer posts.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:17 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Thankfully, those Danish and Swiss administrative numbers are not shown on maps. Belgian numbers are, and I believe that's unfortunate. So someone should kindly tell map makers that posting A-numbers on maps of Belgian E-routes is confusing for the driver. Even though you can see the A-numbers on those routes. Just look at the kilometer posts.
In Denmark, if an E number exist, only the E number will be shown on signs, maps, etc. The only occasions where you will find M-numbers are on motorways without E numbers, or posted on the motorway emergency phones.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #287
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Danish motorways without E-numbers are signed with the Primary or Secondary route numbers, not M-numbers.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #288
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Right, we got Google Street View today. Was playing around with it, and discovered that if you head from Johannesburg to Cape Town along the N1, Cape Town is signed at every major interchange/intersection from Kroonstad, around 180 km south of Johannesburg:

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Old June 8th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #289
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What does this T in yellow circle mean? Some kind of transit indicator?
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Old June 8th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #290
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Toll
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:41 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
I think we're pretty much on one line then. Two destinations per directions is usually more than enough. Sometimes one is enough, sometimes three will make sense. It brings you to a number of destinations that's easy to grasp when approaching an intersection at high speed. Two or three destinations for the road ahead can also be kept continuous on distance signs, on which you could then add the two main focals that you are going to indicate at the next motorway intersection. In other words, German system.

Regarding Belgium, A-numbers make sense (for a variety of reasons) for the authorities. Belgium is not the only country where E-routes have a separate administrative number. Denmark is another example, while Switzerland, too, uses administrative numbers that differ from the numbers actually signposted. Thankfully, those Danish and Swiss administrative numbers are not shown on maps. Belgian numbers are, and I believe that's unfortunate. So someone should kindly tell map makers that posting A-numbers on maps of Belgian E-routes is confusing for the driver. Even though you can see the A-numbers on those routes. Just look at the kilometer posts.
In my humble, wierdly-American opinion*, the Belgian A-numbering system has enough of an internal logic to it that it would be justified to use it. Especially since parts of the system are posted (the A10 into Ostend after it loses the E40....) Plenty of roads in other countries are marked with a domestic and an E-number.

*Of course, I come from a country where this sort of thing - http://www.pahighways.com/graphics/g...-US22-US30.jpg - is not at all unusual. I'm guessing Chris can tell us why that particular sign grouping is obsolete.

EDITED because I just discovered (in rereading this thread because I'm putting off more useful activity) that that link doesn't work if you click on it here. It does work if you copy-and-paste it into your browser window.

Last edited by Penn's Woods; July 17th, 2010 at 04:50 PM.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 11:30 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Llama View Post
What does this T in yellow circle mean? Some kind of transit indicator?
Yeah, as Chris said, means that it's a toll road.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 01:28 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
In my humble, wierdly-American opinion*, the Belgian A-numbering system has enough of an internal logic to it that it would be justified to use it. Especially since parts of the system are posted (the A10 into Ostend after it loses the E40....) Plenty of roads in other countries are marked with a domestic and an E-number.
Personally, I think that signs that combine a local A-number with an E-number have a tendency towards becoming unclear. Too many colours, too much time to understand the message. A road should have one signposted number. There are good grounds to signpost only the E-number of a road if it has one, and there are good grounds to focus on the domestic number, but combinations are both useless (one of the numbers will always take the primacy in the people's minds) and the key to signage that are not as quickly understandable.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #294
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Hey, please go back on topic or Chris would close this thread!
They used to sign Santiago de Compostela just after the junction of N-240, A-132 and A-176 in Puente la Reina de Jaca, but the sign was removed. It said Santiago 832 or something like that. There's a sign on N-II after Peñalba that says Madrid 400: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en...
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Old June 10th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #295
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Greater Belgium.

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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:59 AM   #296
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Greater Belgium.

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hahahaha
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Old June 15th, 2010, 04:22 AM   #297
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Lima-Peru 1870 km
Pacific ocean : 1470 km
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Old June 15th, 2010, 05:28 AM   #298
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Old July 16th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #299
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A few photos from western Ukraine, near Uzhgorod:

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http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36087183


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/28097371

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Old July 17th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #300
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Kharkiv, Ukraine: Minsk 1020, Warsaw 1393 and Moscow 733. A reminder of the communist era.

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Somewhere between Kiev and Kharkiv, which is another 425 km to go.

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Dnipropetrovsk 50 km, Simferopol 465 km.

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