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Old March 1st, 2016, 05:04 PM   #601
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The one on A-21 shows the distance to Lleida and Barcelona. But is not that far: 426 km. And it is placed near Pamplona, rather than near the Aragon border: https://www.google.es/maps/@42.75227...zxqRUgIq4Q!2e0
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Old March 1st, 2016, 10:08 PM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Some European countries start with the most distant destination, some with the closest. Starting with the closest seems to be standard in North America.

Now it makes sense to me to start with the closest ('cause that way, you get them in the order you'd come to them), but maybe that's just because it's what I'm used to. France in particular seems to have made a conscious decision to switch from that way to the other. Does anyone know what the thinking is for starting with the farthest? Or have an opinion?
I think the other way is better, because what's on top is most important (and the farthest destination is usually the most important one, otherwise it probably wouldn't be signposted at all).
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 12:24 AM   #603
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In Spain is done is ascending order, and the furthest and most important destination (sometimes two, as it is the case in A-2 with Zaragoza and Barcelona) gets a larger typeface.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 04:06 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
The one on A-21 shows the distance to Lleida and Barcelona. But is not that far: 426 km. And it is placed near Pamplona, rather than near the Aragon border: https://www.google.es/maps/@42.75227...zxqRUgIq4Q!2e0


that's true. They often point next "road hub" and there are barely cases with more than 300 km.

But, indeed, there are motorways that will have one main use (even if different possibilities) and they point them too.


The AP-68 has long distance (not only nodes in its corners) in both directions, for instance
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 04:23 PM   #605
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Barcelona 602, the longest I've found on A-2. And it's continuously signed. However the actual distance is shorter than that. And of course, taking N-211 and N-420 is shorter than A-2/N-II all the way .
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 09:05 PM   #606
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Quote:
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I think the other way is better, because what's on top is most important (and the farthest destination is usually the most important one, otherwise it probably wouldn't be signposted at all).
You might think this when you look at all the nice high mileage signs on European mainline motorways featuring international capitals and national metropolis hundreds of kilometers away. But there's a lot of distance signs on routes with a much more regional character, including motorways or European mainlines on the continent's edges. And then chances of the farthest town being more important than the other towns are not larger than chances of it being the other way around. They'll just signpost the next few towns of any importance, the (relative un)importance is usually about equal.

Apart from this, you of course have countries like Poland and Italy that signpost pretty unimportant termini from hundreds of kilometers out. Almost any town signposted ahead of them will be more important.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 10:04 PM   #607
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It makes sense in Poland to sign the border crossings with Russia, Ukraine and Belarus because they are pretty important destinations in their own right. But it's absolutely illogical these days to sign metropolises such as Świecko and Kudowa-Słone - it would make much more sense to simply sign Frankfurt (Oder) on the motorway and Berlin off-motorway. Likewise - Prague would make much more sense on the DK8 from Wrocław.

One thing I'd like to see the EU implement would be signs every 25km with a list of further away destinations. For instance - on the Austrian A2 south of Vienna, it would make sense to have signs with "Zagreb / Split / Belgrade / Ljubljana / Venice".

Of course, I have my GPS, so such a thing isn't really needed, but still, it would be nice to see.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 01:16 AM   #608
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It makes sense in Poland to sign the border crossings with Russia, Ukraine and Belarus because they are pretty important destinations in their own right. But it's absolutely illogical these days to sign metropolises such as Świecko and Kudowa-Słone - it would make much more sense to simply sign Frankfurt (Oder) on the motorway and Berlin off-motorway. Likewise - Prague would make much more sense on the DK8 from Wrocław.

One thing I'd like to see the EU implement would be signs every 25km with a list of further away destinations. For instance - on the Austrian A2 south of Vienna, it would make sense to have signs with "Zagreb / Split / Belgrade / Ljubljana / Venice".

Of course, I have my GPS, so such a thing isn't really needed, but still, it would be nice to see.
This has little practical usage. Even if you don't have a GPS, it's not difficult to look at a map and know that if you have to go from Vienna to Venice you need to drive the whole A2 all the way to Italy, or if you are going to Zagreb, you need to turn off at Graz by following Maribor, and then Zagreb.
Even within Italy, if you are in Milan, you'll mostly find signs to Bologna, after Bologna, you'll follow Florence, then Rome, then Naples, etc...
IMHO, signposting cities that are 500-1000 km away, especially if there are other important cities in the middle (like everywhere in Europe), it's not very useful for drivers, considering that most people entering a motorway are likely to drive short-to-medium distances (like in the 50 - 200 km range).
I agree that signposting border crossings is useless, as they are less known abroad compared to important cities. It would be better to signpost Innsbruck on the Italian A22 instead of Brennero. But signposting the exact distance to Munich or Berlin in Verona would be pointless.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 12:06 PM   #609
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The Brenner Pass may be better known than the town of Innsbruck, so that's a bit of an unfortunate example. Generally, there may be definite merit in signposting a border crossing here or there, but I just do not see the merit of signposting a border crossing at the other side of the country. Even if you wished to signpost the way to the Ukraine or Belarus all the way through Poland, signposting that small village at the other side of the country remains a bit of an odd way to do so.

As regards separate distance signs for long distance traffic: they're never a 'must-have', of course. Like every distance sign, they'd be placed to both reassure and to give motorists a global idea how much longer they will need to their destination or a crucial waypoint. They form a service that most motorists do appreciate, even in the GPS age. When populating distance signs, the fact that most motorists are driving short-to-medium distances is the appropriate starting point, but that's why there could be merit in preparing some separate distance signs for that minority of long distance travellers. Just so that the normal medium distance traveller can more safely ignore them. There is no need to repeat these towns after every single exit, but you could provide reassurance every 30-45 mins (and after important intersections). Eulanthe's proposed interval of every 25 kms is much too frequent to my liking. That's as often as you get normal distance signs on rural motorways where exits are relatively far apart.

That said, it might be a bit of a struggle to select the destinations for these long-distance signs. In Central Europe and in the Blue Banana belt, you have so many options that every selection will feel like a random choice. And once you're in more peripheral or sparsely populated areas of Europe, you could quickly run out of proper distant towns to signpost. It's hard then to make the investment of regular signs that just contain one point in the distance. Which is probably why, to date, everyone's stuck to the middle ground of just the normal distance signs, though at times populated with towns that feel rather far away for the purpose.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 04:17 PM   #610
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You're right, just at major intersections would make sense, such as at the A2/A9 in Austria.

I think it wouldn't be too difficult to select destinations - for instance, on the D1 south of Prague, obvious destinations are Bratislava, Budapest, Vienna and Zagreb.

Likewise on the A2 north of Zagreb - Graz, Vienna, Prague and Munich are obvious choices.

It would make sense for these signs to be along main tourist routes - the corridor from Olomouc to Zagreb is well traveled by Polish drivers, for instance. And hey, I'd like them just because it's nice to see a physical sign as opposed to fiddling with the GPS, especially on long long runs.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 05:32 PM   #611
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Quote:
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I think it wouldn't be too difficult to select destinations - for instance, on the D1 south of Prague, obvious destinations are Bratislava, Budapest, Vienna and Zagreb.
The D1 South of Prague is also the main route to the South-East of Poland and beyond (Krakow, Lviv) as well as to Italy via Salzburg (e.g. Venice). And in a South-Easterly direction, Belgrade would be an option as well. Maybe more so than Zagreb, if you look at the substantial numbers that drive to Turkey each summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Likewise on the A2 north of Zagreb - Graz, Vienna, Prague and Munich are obvious choices.
Not quite, in my opinion. Apart from it being debatable how to best drive from Zagreb to Munich (not necessarily via Maribor), from here Munich is not a waypoint on your way to North-Western Europe. You'd drive via Linz-Nurnberg and will leave Munich aside. So shouldn't Munich then be replaced with something like Nürnberg? Or is Nürnberg not big enough and do you need to look beyond to Frankfurt and Berlin? Graz to me sounds like more something for the regular distance signs. Plus you run into your own suggestion to have a town in Poland signposted here, to touch upon the fact that this route is well travelled by Polish drivers.

You see, in Central Europe you could pick so many towns that you'll end up making random choices.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 07:53 PM   #612
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You see, in Central Europe you could pick so many towns that you'll end up making random choices.
That was my exact point. Better to signpost the (couple of) next bigger town(s).

For example, in the case of Zagreb:
- On A3 (direction W) they should signpost Ljubljana, and maybe Villach and Trieste. Those heading to Milan or Munich will look at a map and choose their route.
- On A3 (direction E) they should signpost Belgrade. Those heading to Sofia or Athens will know that they need to arrive in Belgrade first.
- On A2 they should signpost Maribor and maybe Graz. Those heading to Vienna, Linz, Passau, etc... will know to go that way.
- etc...

No need to signpost lists of 5-10 cities that are more than 3-400km away and 95% of drivers wouldn't reach anyway.

In some cases they use to signpost the city at the terminus of a certain numbered highway. That's effective if a highway is less than 200-300km long, but if it's very long, it's more practical to split it in more stretches. That's why in Milan you'll see signs to Bologna, although A1 stretches from Milan to Naples. It would be very weird for me to see a sign pointing to Naples in Milan.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 10:35 PM   #613
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That's why in Milan you'll see signs to Bologna, although A1 stretches from Milan to Naples. It would be very weird for me to see a sign pointing to Naples in Milan.
Indeed. Though there is of course a difference between the choice not to make Napoli the control city on the Northernmost part of the A1 and never even mentioning it on a distance sign until Rome (or Salerno, if you drive Northbound). Italy could do more with distance signs: not only for major cities beyond the control city, but also for provincial capitals that are too small to be control city and for the control cities of branch motorways.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 11:12 PM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
That was my exact point. Better to signpost the (couple of) next bigger town(s).

For example, in the case of Zagreb:
- On A3 (direction W) they should signpost Ljubljana, and maybe Villach and Trieste. Those heading to Milan or Munich will look at a map and choose their route.
- On A3 (direction E) they should signpost Belgrade. Those heading to Sofia or Athens will know that they need to arrive in Belgrade first.
- On A2 they should signpost Maribor and maybe Graz. Those heading to Vienna, Linz, Passau, etc... will know to go that way.
- etc...

No need to signpost lists of 5-10 cities that are more than 3-400km away and 95% of drivers wouldn't reach anyway.

In some cases they use to signpost the city at the terminus of a certain numbered highway. That's effective if a highway is less than 200-300km long, but if it's very long, it's more practical to split it in more stretches. That's why in Milan you'll see signs to Bologna, although A1 stretches from Milan to Naples. It would be very weird for me to see a sign pointing to Naples in Milan.
Because of GPS routing is turning a routine, it will be less important which names appear in the signs. Numbers and the consistency are more important. Even nowadays, I believe that much of naming effort is about local politics. In some areas it is language politics, and somewhere it is about rival cities trying to be better than the other(s).

The Finnish system is rather straightforward: Typically, the signs on the main roads display one or two destinations per direction: the control city, and often the next non-minor populated location (typically the center of a municipality). Exceptions are allowed. Long routes are split into legs, which often vary between 100 and 250 km. For instance, the 1300-km national backbone 4/E75 is split into seven legs of 100-340 km in length.

https://www.google.fi/maps/@63.71765...2!8i6656?hl=fi

One size does not fit all. The system in the crowded Central Europe is not necessarily applicable in the sparsely populated areas and vice versa.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 11:05 PM   #615
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Nice one from the net

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Old October 16th, 2016, 11:16 PM   #616
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Interesting sign, but possibly incorrect? Eromanga is in southern Queensland, 800 km from the Coral Sea. However, Alice Springs is at least 900 km from either the Gulf of Carpentaria or the Great Australian Bight.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 11:44 PM   #617
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Maybe there isn´t a service station in Alice Springs
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Old November 24th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #618
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Sign in Tabriz, Iran7
Europe 1800 km (Europe referring to Bosphore in Istanbul)

Tehran 1323 km, from Bandarabbas

Tehran 1294 km, from Tbilsi Georgia

Tehran 915 km, from Bazargan, on the Turkish border

Tehran 1859 km, Chinoz, Uzbekistan (+Baku 2279 km)

Tehran 2100 km, Zaranj, Afghanistan
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Old November 24th, 2016, 11:59 PM   #619
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I wonder what the "thank you" refers to?
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Old November 25th, 2016, 05:39 AM   #620
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lol it's a gantry that leads to the borded crossing, I guess thank you for visiting our city/vilayat/country?
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